My opinion regarding the "crime families"

[Bogomil]

I know I have spoken about it before, but I would like to say it one more time. If you're reading this, I'd like to tell you that I'm not engaging you with my opinion, but I think it'll improve the quality of the roleplay.

Mafias are feared for a reason. Their core is often full of smart people. Their structure is complicated and the police is always investigating it. The dynamics of the structures might be different for every crime family. One family might prefer the core to be interacting more with their street members, other family bosses might prefer to never get in the lights. In real life crime families most of the time are a step forward from the police, because they do what they want, but they're doing it in a hidden way. *I'll get to the point* If a police decides to pull over a millionaire mafia member who controls entire region, what do you think he will do? He will run as fast as he can? No, that won't happen, he will cooperate. Because he is smart, he can predict the outcome and the odds. Unless the situation is extreme, he will do what it takes to stay safe and be away from the lights. You probably heard of Cosa Nostra. Their leaders had over 40 people in the top of the police chain in Italy, USA, Spain, France and even Switzerland. They all tried their best to stay hidden for longest. They made billions. And it's not only Cosa Nostra, like 99% of the mafias irl are like this.

The only people to openly mess with the police are the street gangs. If you are poor and you're not getting the proper education you are expected to be unhappy with your life. If GSF calls a police officer "pig" or tell him to "fuck off" is understandable. It is roleplay wise.
In my opinion if the criminal families try to do their criminal activities without seeking for police' attention, that would make a friendly environment and improve the quality of role playing.

Spoiler for Hiden:

in other words - you're a criminal, you must not provoke the police, you must stay as far as you can from them...if the police pulls you over, don't insult them and seek for suspection because that is pathetic, act normally like any citizen would, that would make you look smarter.

Express your opinion below (in a constructive manner).

[Chase]

This is exactly what I've been trying to encourage mafias to do for years. Simply put - act your role! Mafias are supposed to try to avoid attention not seek it. The violent things they do should be kept hidden from the public. Street thugs are typically the only exception to this.

Also the tag system like _Corleone and _Ancelotti etc should be made obsolete if they want to make the jobs of detectives and FBI a lot harder. Those tags just put a giant spotlight on you.

[jovanca]

To encourage is not enough, after years you realised that yourself probably Chase. What you should do now is think of a way to force it (if thats possible). Give more roleplay power to cops and court. Give them a way to actually damage a player (by giving court authority to sieze assets that are obtained with illegaly earned money and etc, if there's enough evidence for it ofc).

i could write a ton of suggestions on how to do that actually, but i think it's pretty pointless as none of it is ever gonna se day light. not on argonath

as for real life, i can't really agree with you guys, based on everything happening in Serbia, Montenegro and etc. we actually know the names of mafia bosses and such here. they are untouchable regardless of public knowing their names. Police knows their names as well, and rather not fuck with them either because some things are above their level, which cops rping on argonath won't ever accept.

[Bogomil]

Balkans are kind of exception to all this. But even here the mafia is playing smart, there is corruption on every level of the country and yet no one arrested. Things in Argonath are different tho, all that cops n robbers shit turns the server ugly and makes the new players leave. Playing smart from both sides is the only way to create friendly environment where everyone is happy.

[jovanca]

exactly, so we lack a level of realism in every aspect of roleplay. cops won't really roleplay corrupt even though they could earn serious money. i offered 100k to an officer to let me run after being detained, yet he wouldn't take it. and why would he anyway, he probably has milions.

it's not only one side's problem. whole system is flawed and whole system would need to change and improve if you want one of the sides to improve. i just dont see it happening

[jovanca]

and as you say, balkan countries are an exception. so is argonath. the problem is that people don't really roleplay, not the way they (don't) roleplay.

[Chase]

The court has always had the authority order the seizure of assets. It just has to be done by HQ or myself once a ruling is made because there's not a scripted way to do it for cops/court staff. The main issue with that is an inactive court, lack of LEO investigators, and lack of a decent bill of rights and criminal penal code. Those are things beyond my control. If courts and investigators get active and start convicting criminals with good cases, I will consider giving court staff the ability to seize assets with in game scripts.

[Shorty.]

This will work when the economy fix up, and adding huge penalties for crimes, once it'll be applied, mafias/gangs/criminals will decrease, and we'll finally be able to have normal civilians. And cops being provoked is because cops want to interact with criminals, because there's nothing else to do. I suggest we try to find solutions for both sides to make their game play interesting.

[jovanca]

Now that's an issue i pointed out over a year ago.

Damn it man you just got no clue how roleplay works, do you? If cops are outnumbered no one forces them to go rambo and always shoot criminals who comit crimes. They could also have tried gathering evidence and ROLEPLAYING instead of causing a huge dm fest by involving criminal group in their shootout.

It is people like you who think every crime scene always has to end up with a shootout. You complained about the win mentallity from criminal side while right now you are trying to justify the exact same thing from both police and criminal side. Good job

the only difference between back then and today is that there are actually  more cops, but their behavior didn't change, or if it did, then it changed for worse. We have players without proper roleplay experience leading the groups. Thoes players are bad role models, and therefore bad example for the whole chain of command of LE groups. Same thing happens in the criminal groups as well.

According to the rules, administrators are allowed to close down the groups that behave badly. Yet there wasn't a single time ive seen that happen in my 6 year long stay on argonath. Back when Teddy, Devin, Rusty, Cyril and etc were around, HQ did at least warn groups and threaten them with group closure, but nowadays HQ doesn't seem to be taking initiative, which we really need them to do in order for the whole server to get better.

[Jeremy.]

The solution for this is: remove blips. Why? So people can roleplay in peace, gangsters can do some barbeque and listen to some music without some officer like Hevar showing out of nowhere reporting in radio "/r heavy armed niggas in grove street shooting walls",  afterwards he switches on discord "back up in game fucking gvardias have biased admins ffs", nobody provokes anyone, everything goes smooth, players enjoy chilling with eachother. Or a group of mobsters can beat up a guy for messing with them in corner of a street without 10 officers showing up, all equipped with m4 and sniper.

Blips are for tdm servers, not roleplay. If you're going to cry how "new players cant see you on map" well there are plenty of helpers which can roll with them around and guide them accordingly so please let's not use this as an excuse. Regarding tagless groups, I'd support it. Why? So people could not hold any grudge on a certain player just because he has a _Gvardia or _Corleone tag yet he needs to find his way in via RP to find out who is he affiliated with. Enforce firstname_lastname for everyone, including admins.

[Bogomil]

The solution for this is: remove blips. Why? So people can roleplay in peace, gangsters can do some barbeque and listen to some music without some officer like Hevar showing out of nowhere reporting in radio "/r heavy armed niggas in grove street shooting walls",  afterwards he switches on discord "back up in game fucking gvardias have biased admins ffs", nobody provokes anyone, everything goes smooth, players enjoy chilling with eachother. Or a group of mobsters can beat up a guy for messing with them in corner of a street without 10 officers showing up, all equipped with m4 and sniper.

I don't like how you started with pointing fingers, that's not the idea of the topic tho. Let's not continue with that. About the removal of the blips and enforcing firstname_lastname. I think Gandalf spoke about it once. He said blips won't be removed and I kind of see the reason behind. Argonath was never a hardcore rp server and it shouldn't be, it's just the people's mindset that must change. We have people that can barely speak english, accordingly they hardly understand the concept of the roleplay. But people learn with the time. If we try to enforce drastic change like this one it may have the opposite effect - to make the new players leave. That's only one of many sides. I personally prefer the light roleplay boundaries we have set.

[Jeremy.]

The solution for this is: remove blips. Why? So people can roleplay in peace, gangsters can do some barbeque and listen to some music without some officer like Hevar showing out of nowhere reporting in radio "/r heavy armed niggas in grove street shooting walls",  afterwards he switches on discord "back up in game fucking gvardias have biased admins ffs", nobody provokes anyone, everything goes smooth, players enjoy chilling with eachother. Or a group of mobsters can beat up a guy for messing with them in corner of a street without 10 officers showing up, all equipped with m4 and sniper.

I don't like how you started with pointing fingers, that's not the idea of the topic tho. Let's not continue with that. About the removal of the blips and enforcing firstname_lastname. I think Gandalf spoke about it once. He said blips won't be removed and I kind of see the reason behind. Argonath was never a hardcore rp server and it shouldn't be, it's just the people's mindset that must change. We have people that can barely speak english, accordingly they hardly understand the concept of the roleplay. But people learn with the time. If we try to enforce drastic change like this one it may have the opposite effect - to make the new players leave. That's only one of many sides. I personally prefer the light roleplay boundaries we have set.

I'm not pointing fingers, I do have proof of it and you know pretty well what I meant.

If you're okay with "light RP" then dont expect "Cosa Nostra" families.

[Jeremy.]

You can only make people roleplay by guiding them towards roleplaying. No one is talking about turning this into a serious RP server, if you do this the next day the playerbase will totally die. What I suggest, is implementing both rules and scripts to encourage roleplay instead of turning it into a cops and robbers server.

[jovanca]

Rules are there already. They're just not being enforced upon players properly. 

[Jeremy.]

Rules are there already. They're just not being enforced upon players properly.

Maybe because 75 percent of the staff team doesn't even know the definiton what roleplay is. I'm not trying to be rude or provoking anyone but if we're not pointing the issues out they wont be solved over night.