My opinion regarding the "crime families"

[Djinn]

This might be out of the topic and TLDR, skip to " to not run from the topic ".

The solution for this is: remove blips

Supported one hundred percent.

Blips are for tdm servers, not roleplay.

Facts.

If we try to enforce drastic change like this one it may have the opposite effect - to make the new players leave. That's only one of many sides. I personally prefer the light roleplay boundaries we have set.

Ok " to make new players leave ", to be honest I feel there's two types of new players joining a roleplay server: The ones who come to deathmatch (I highly doubt this players come to even try to learn what roleplay is about), and the ones who actually come to ROLEPLAY, to make this kind of player stay, the server must have ROLEPLAYING standards such as the blip removal, the free cop removal, BUT now tell me, how is this even HEAVY ROLEPLAY? Actually it's kinda far from it, it's just realistic, roleplayed based and simple.
Heavy Roleplay based would be a player have to apply for a license to obtain weapons, wait weeks to be approved, and no one is looking for it.
This small, simple changes are making 90% of the playerbase think it's being turned into a Heavy RP server, when actually it's not.

To not run from the point of the topic, Crime Families could actually not keep the Family name as surname, too much attention and sometimes overfills the server with such. After all we don't read " Nashimoto Wah Ching Triad " in a Chinese person ID. 

In the end of the day, just remember to enjoy yourself and have fun. 

[Antonio.]

What's very interesting to me is that recently its been cops vs robbers the past few weeks, constant bickering and what not, which was the case in 2009-2012.

Criminal families can go full strict rp mode at anytime, every longstanding group in Argo went through a phase like that. But you can't demand something like this from criminal groups when the cop side is just as much at fault. As soon as you get kicked for flooding, FBI, SAPD and every government group ig will be after your ass and magically find you because they assume you're growing weed.

You also have just as much rambo cops as criminals because that's just how it is with the way the server works based on resources and scripts that are available.

[Bogomil]

Perhaps it's time for every group leader to become what is expected from him ? If everyone keeps looking at the others and never at themselves, solution will never be found. Rules are valid for both cops and criminals. The argument that "if cops are doing it, why shouldn't we?" is not actually an argument and it's not valid. Roleplay as much as you can, if you see the others responding with a poor roleplay you can always report or teach them (depending on the situation).

[GormyGorm]

Also the tag system like _Corleone and _Ancelotti etc should be made obsolete if they want to make the jobs of detectives and FBI a lot harder. Those tags just put a giant spotlight on you.

This.

I hate the idea of family tags. I think it should be handled by having group ranks and member lists for families hidden. The members of a family should know who else is a member without having to see a certain tag like that. So many times in the past, I have been in situations like "You are corleone? Yes? Fuck you, I kill you." I feel like situations like this need to stop.

I also feel that the  "Michael_Corleone was kicked for flooding by Sauron" notification should be removed from global/public chat. It should be displayed to the person who got kicked and nobody else.

[Chase]

I also feel that the  "Michael_Corleone was kicked for flooding by Sauron" notification should be removed from global/public chat. It should be displayed to the person who got kicked and nobody else.

Since some cops use this information to easily find weedfields, I will remove it from public notice and only show it to the person kicked and admins.

[Mr. Goobii]

I also feel that the  "Michael_Corleone was kicked for flooding by Sauron" notification should be removed from global/public chat. It should be displayed to the person who got kicked and nobody else.

Since some cops use this information to easily find weedfields, I will remove it from public notice and only show it to the person kicked and admins.

Maybe you could add in a message for the local chat, so the surrounding around the kicked player get notified why he left. Other than that, neat!

[GormyGorm]

I also feel that the  "Michael_Corleone was kicked for flooding by Sauron" notification should be removed from global/public chat. It should be displayed to the person who got kicked and nobody else.

Since some cops use this information to easily find weedfields, I will remove it from public notice and only show it to the person kicked and admins.

Maybe you could add in a message for the local chat, so the surrounding around the kicked player get notified why he left. Other than that, neat!

Or just something that prevents it from being abused. It isn't just police that abuse the notifications to find weed fields. Crime families even use it to track down another family's field and kill them for it.

[neriionz]

If we have /groups, why we keep using tags and _groupname?
That just helps you to count how many enemies are online and to see if you can fight them outnumbered.

The blips should be just available for cops because San Andreas is big and they're the only one group who needs the blips to find easily the suspects. We as criminal players, we really don't need blips just if you guys just want to hunt people when you see the blips, nothing more worth than that.


I'll tell you a story of what happened to me today. A boy (whose name I will not name him for personal reasons and his rights) noticed that I was parked on the edge of the sidewalk, stopped parallel to me and asked if I sell weed (in the middle of a public street). I started talking to him, doing animations and always interacting. I said I sell it and he started to always ask things very hastily, as if I were forced to have to ignore my roleplay just to sell him weed. I asked him to get in my car and I was going to take him to my house which was where I had my weed (RPly), in which he answered me "Sell it fast because I want to continue cleaning the streets with Sweeper", I said I'll sell to him 30 grams of weed (because I'm taking a heavy roleplay, it made no sense to sell 10kg) and he asked "How much?" in which I replied "$50 per gram." He said he would do the math, he did "/ me facepalm" and started saying he did not want 30g. (In which I was simply trying to sell 30g towards RP). Going back a bit and adding, a friend of his simply appeared to run in the middle of our RP, sold him weed and left without saying a single word. After 2 minutes of that happens, he cames back running in the middle of the street and saying "/ s John, do you buy 4kg of weed?" (He didn't know my name rply) and until I say "If you do not want to do RP, do not ruin mine", his friend to hear me say this immediately respond "RP fastly so" - wtf?
After that, his friend came to me doing a standard roleplay (All ok) and I gave him a ride to Chinese Restaurant, trying to take the RP longer but do you guys want to know what happend later? He just felt so useless to be RP instead farming money, so he stand up fastly and stepped out of the restaurant just saying he had to go while he had order something from the menu.
Would it be too much to ask them to do a standard roleplay, starting and ending with logic? Instead of just thinking about money? Drugs are so devalued in RP that they only serve to make money. Why not put the heroine to give 5 of armor for each gram that is used? And you use weed to give 5 HP per each gram? And meth to give other bonuses? It would just be an idea to just do everything that exists in the game, to make money!


In my opinion, If I was a Community Leader...
I would close the server in a city, put rocks around it and remove the helis so that no one could go to another city except the boundary. After resetting the server and would not let anyone could have more than one home and business because if it would not end quickly buying the houses, but when there were no more homes for sale, people would have to imagine another roleplay as for example: LEASE, BEGGARS or other alternatives things...

[Stivi]

Well you know a civilian gathering isn't always a "looking like mafia" thing to say on /r lmao.

You yourself will shoot any living soul with a tag, Bogomil. My tag is not who I am in RP. The FBI had me investigated for a crime I didn't commit recently and they just said "GVARDIA, STIVEN". Now yes, that is my nickname, but if you read Gvardia topic, the first post, you'll see that only a few people are actually family, and that's what we RP and that's how our ranks work. I have even been outranked by someone 2 ranks lower than me. No sense? Because you have no idea. Every cop out there is out to get a criminal group, but you haven't been successful so you go around shooting people to at least win something. That's not how it works, so don't go around preaching peace and being lowkey. You all can moan about Gvardia and any criminal group but the fact is you have never caught us doing what we do other than shootouts. Bare with me, you'll see the point soon. We all know criminals grow weed fields, we all know criminals cook meth and order heroin. What you don't know is where the drugs go to. Who gets it all and throws it at the drug market? What's the price on drugs? How the fuck do criminals have 7 properties? Who is investigating that? No one. Why? The scripts, the rules and the law.

The automatic /su. Many times I do 10 damage and get a kill, but the people that did 190 get nothing and are according to the law, the rules and the script free to walk. Makes no sense, I agree. But as a criminal operating in gray areas, that's the best scenario for me. And that's why I "moan/cry/bitch" when I get killed not commiting any crimes, so you all take notice and say "Wait, he's right, I shouldn't have shot him, but it is bullshit." and create a discussion about it. I have no problem with Hevar, Fernando and Jennifer coming up to me and telling me I refused to RP, in fact I encourage you to speak up against unfair things, so we can work towards a fix. But I will discuss with you, like I do with Mircea over /p chat, only if you have been fair to me. The play 2 win mentality is not something I like. And I'm not a saint, however everything I have abused, like /mir, I could, and I did it. Sure it's bad, but maybe that will fix the issue that is the court right now.

The rule "once you escape that RP is over" and /rhl. You killed 7 people? Dope, you're free to go if you run for 7 minutes. Oh you have a 80min rhl? We can maybe jail you for 15 seconds do you're no longer suspected, because we can't return and it makes no sense.

The law. If I am jailed, I am jailed and that's it. Courts are really not useful and inactive. But certainly if I am jailed for 200 seconds by /jail, in court I would have gotten like 30minutes. Which would be a proper punishment.

Don't go getting any new ideas over what I said, this is to show a few gray areas and see how we can improve them and all parties should agree before moving with it.


The server is TDM. I was RPing at the casino with a guy, a rival group tried to rob the place. I was at the casino watching Viktor losing his money to Carbon and making fun of it, 10 minutes later the casino was BARRICADED by cops that were "dead" in that RP scenario. I'm not going to the casino anymore man.


Tags are only a problem to the people not willing to look past them.

[Bogomil]

Stiven, I asked twice not to point fingers out, yet you are still doing it. The point of the topic is to have a constructive conversation. I wrote this in the kindest possible way. I could have taken logs and made fun of you to prove how much you actually roleplay. If you're going to continue, forum moderators can lock this topic.

Actually /jail is like putting someone in custody. If there weren't that many criminal situations every hour, the police could use the suspection reason as a prerequisite for a court case.
Something we can try out - after we appoint the new judges, we can establish something like "daily court or use the civil one" and keep it busy all the time. For example FBI or SAPD catch a person dealing drugs, they take him in custody and make a court case against him. On other hand everyone should be that active that the court case should end within a day (or maximum 2). That way we'll always keep the court busy. And of course, the police shouldn't engage the court with minor things or copbaiters. If you evade a traffic stop in order to get suspected, no one will bother making a court case against you.
But for example we can also add a system where everyone has specific amount of points (usually 39) in his driving license and every time he is caught breaking the traffic laws, some points are taken from him and when that number reaches 0 his driving license is revoked (no need to say that should happen with a court order).
Or we can add scripted court in-game. It will only require judge, investigator and criminal. The judge will be allowed to make instant verdict and jail people for example up to one hour. If the criminal feels the judge is wrong, he should appeal it in the supreme appeal court in the forum. During that appeal, he can't be jailed.
These are just bunch of things to think on. If we decide to add a court in-game that will mean changes in the constitution and on several more things. It will require a lot of scripting I guess and if is going to happen, it should be on the next big update.
Meanwhile we can try increasing the jail time for example up to 600 seconds and see how it goes.

[JackDockz]

In my opinion, If I was a Community Leader...
I would close the server in a city, put rocks around it and remove the helis so that no one could go to another city except the boundary. After resetting the server and would not let anyone could have more than one home and business because if it would not end quickly buying the houses, but when there were no more homes for sale, people would have to imagine another roleplay as for example: LEASE, BEGGARS or other alternatives things...

Communism is the answer yes.

Well you know a civilian gathering isn't always a "looking like mafia" thing to say on /r lmao.

You yourself will shoot any living soul with a tag, Bogomil. My tag is not who I am in RP. The FBI had me investigated for a crime I didn't commit recently and they just said "GVARDIA, STIVEN". Now yes, that is my nickname, but if you read Gvardia topic, the first post, you'll see that only a few people are actually family, and that's what we RP and that's how our ranks work. I have even been outranked by someone 2 ranks lower than me. No sense? Because you have no idea. Every cop out there is out to get a criminal group, but you haven't been successful so you go around shooting people to at least win something. That's not how it works, so don't go around preaching peace and being lowkey. You all can moan about Gvardia and any criminal group but the fact is you have never caught us doing what we do other than shootouts. Bare with me, you'll see the point soon. We all know criminals grow weed fields, we all know criminals cook meth and order heroin. What you don't know is where the drugs go to. Who gets it all and throws it at the drug market? What's the price on drugs? How the fuck do criminals have 7 properties? Who is investigating that? No one. Why? The scripts, the rules and the law.

The automatic /su. Many times I do 10 damage and get a kill, but the people that did 190 get nothing and are according to the law, the rules and the script free to walk. Makes no sense, I agree. But as a criminal operating in gray areas, that's the best scenario for me. And that's why I "moan/cry/bitch" when I get killed not commiting any crimes, so you all take notice and say "Wait, he's right, I shouldn't have shot him, but it is bullshit." and create a discussion about it. I have no problem with Hevar, Fernando and Jennifer coming up to me and telling me I refused to RP, in fact I encourage you to speak up against unfair things, so we can work towards a fix. But I will discuss with you, like I do with Mircea over /p chat, only if you have been fair to me. The play 2 win mentality is not something I like. And I'm not a saint, however everything I have abused, like /mir, I could, and I did it. Sure it's bad, but maybe that will fix the issue that is the court right now.

The rule "once you escape that RP is over" and /rhl. You killed 7 people? Dope, you're free to go if you run for 7 minutes. Oh you have a 80min rhl? We can maybe jail you for 15 seconds do you're no longer suspected, because we can't return and it makes no sense.

The law. If I am jailed, I am jailed and that's it. Courts are really not useful and inactive. But certainly if I am jailed for 200 seconds by /jail, in court I would have gotten like 30minutes. Which would be a proper punishment.

Don't go getting any new ideas over what I said, this is to show a few gray areas and see how we can improve them and all parties should agree before moving with it.


The server is TDM. I was RPing at the casino with a guy, a rival group tried to rob the place. I was at the casino watching Viktor losing his money to Carbon and making fun of it, 10 minutes later the casino was BARRICADED by cops that were "dead" in that RP scenario. I'm not going to the casino anymore man.


Tags are only a problem to the people not willing to look past them.

This guy makes sense and what he wrote is identical to my experience.
I think we should improve the Jail System. A full fledged prison would be fkin good. We have a lot of mappers imo and make them build a prison in Area 69 or where ever you want.
Ofc it has rules and regulations on who to jail and how much to jail.
A prison like this would actually make crime much risky. Considering nowadays all that happens is losing guns on dying and notoriety on jailing.

[AK47]

Remove blips pls, Im sure the old man won’t even notice

[jovanca]

The thread itself is pointing a finger at criminal families yet you keep tellling people not to point fingers. If you want criminals not to comit crimes in public then police has to put pressure on them properly.

Increasing jail time is pointless as you cant really rp shit during the time spent in jail. And i think it is only going to make things worse as people will rather die and respawn instantly than spend 10 minutes in jail.

[KJ_deactivated]

Remove blips pls, Im sure the old man won’t even notice

Fully agree! We don't need blips, this is RP, blips can be  for Helpers on their duty time.

[Bogomil]

I'll put it that way very simple - we need a rule that will put pressure on criminals, they'll need a valid reason to evade (like possesion of something illegal). Evading, shooting, robbing, kidnapping without a proper roleplay behind it would be considered as poor roleplay. Deal? Let's try to enforce some realism.