Petition to re-construct the economy.

[Nylez]

Your honor,

Vice City is a city with a high level of criminal activity, and VCPD does a lot to prevent the criminals from doing so, but I believe the state is partially responsible for these evil actions!

Being a criminal is so much more tempting than being a legal citizen if you like money, that is sadly how it is nowadays. Tax is so high because being a criminal is so much more tempting, the amounts of illegal money shoot through the roof!

So what can we do?

I would like to start a petition that lowers the value of Ogras and lowers the value of vehicles being available to smuggle, which would then follow by a severe lowering of the tax.

We have sadly created a circle where people do illegal activities, deposit these illegal dollars, pay their high tax and then feel like they need to do more illegal activities because the state is robbing them! While THEY are the criminals!

If we lower the amount of income that's made with illegal activities, criminals are less eager to do them, meaning there will be less criminal activities and therefore less illegal money, allowing us to drop the tax as well! Legal businessmen will also appreciate this!

Therefore would I, Nylez Straccione, like to start a petition to drop Ogra income with 50%, car smuggling income with 50% and therefore also drop the tax with 50%!

We need to stop this vicious circle of criminal activities that is happening and also stop destroying the income of legal businessmen because of these activities!

Write down below whether or not you agree with these terms and preferably with a brief explanation as to why, or why not!

Thank you all for your time.

Signed,

Nylez Straccione

[JackDockz]

I'm eager to know how can the government control prices of the black market? I'm pretty sure those scum don't follow the government's orders.

[Klaus]

I agree with Jack, how the heck are the goverent meant to control such prices? It not the government who are paying these criminals...

The prices of Ogra meat is based on the demand and other factors such the steady decline of Ogras around Vice City. The only way to battle this is to help report these poachers as well as stop eating it.

On the matter of illegal car exports, how are the government meant to control such market?

[Nylez]

It is a matter of supply and demand.

If I can rally up enough people to sign this petition and therefore have enough people agreeing with the fact that we need to bring the illegal activities to a minimum together as a group. Maybe then finally the government will realize they need to act way more strict when it comes to Ogra fishing and vehicle smuggling.

Blocking communications from outside so import/export is limited, stricter area patrolling in Viceport, closer looking on activities in the ocean, severely punish and close businesses selling anything connected to Ogra meat, and so on.

As long as there are people interested in these kinda products, these products will be selling at these high prices. When the government steps in and makes sure the supply goes way higher than the demands are, the prices will drop.

And when the prices drop, the supply will drop as people won't earn as much from it.
So far I've only seen complaints as to HOW I intend to manage it, which is a part of the entire problem.

If you were a lawful citizen or a member of the government, you'd immediately respond positively and try to put this criminal world to a halt.

Stop thinking that this world is like it should be! It is a mess that needs to be stopped!
Stand up for yourselves and realize that you must do what's right!

Let's change the world!

Forbidden pleasures alone are loved immoderately; when lawful, they do not excite desire.

[Maddy]

Illegal activities such as fishing ogras and car smuggling are considered to be illegal for a reason.
The black money garnered from this is being converted to white by the carelessness of bankers who accept huge amounts of deposits without even getting suspicions.

The FBI as well as VCPD have been trying to stop these smugglers and ogra fishers but unfortunately, both FBI and VCPD is very understaffed at the moment. The number of criminals outnumber the number of on-duty cops.
Whenever the officers are not engaged in other situations, they are always advised to patrol Vice Port and the ocean.
We have tried to recruit but again, unfortunately, no one is interested to join the PD to help bring these people to justice.

In your initial statement, you say lowering prices of ogras and that of vehicles will help. If in fact that could be done, the government would have done it a long time ago.
These sort of dealers are under the radar and have prices of their own. Lowering taxes will most definitely encourage people to engage in making money illegally and turning it white just by walking in a bank.

Dropping prices of ogras and illegal vehicle smuggling isn't going to lower tax, the government would be happy that much lesser black money is going to be circulated.

Instead of ranting about lowering taxes, a rant about a payroll raise for government related work would make people inclined to make money legally rather than the bad way. The government could increase wages for VCPA workers or junkyard workers.

[Kowalski.]

Greetings from the State Police Detective Bureau,

I have to applaud you on raising this issue and actually talking about it, thank you! I can tell you though that the State Police, both marked and unmarked, will be on higher patrol in the Vice Port areas.

What the FBI Special Agent has said below is correct, we are indeed understaffed. There is unfortunately so much we can do at this stage, but we will be doing what is possible from our end.

I will personally ensure that our men are working at maximum efficiency and that the State Police and its Detective Bureau are functioning exactly as they should through means of motivation and hard work.

Thank you,
Police Detective Inspector Kowalski

(OOC note: Before you mention my recent five weeks or more of inactivity, I was on reported leave for a vacation)

[SamirM]

tbh we might aswell do another server restart

[Lonewolf]

 

tbh we might aswell do another server restart

((Everybody RP till Samir cuts the chain, good job))

[STALKER41]

I get your point Nylez, but is the situation so critical and dire that this petition must be carried out? It looks more like a measure to cripple illegal activity due to the fact that the Vice City Police Department lack the manpower as well as initiative to stop illegal ogra fishing and car smuggling. I believe even civilians who care for this State could do the same aforementioned initiative. I'd like to remind how many raids and court cases have been successfully carried out against people that conduct such activities. The results of both are quite visible: the criminals who have been caught red-handed have been scared or financially crippled to the point they will have a hard time to recover or have gone into hiding for an extended period of time.

The measure is quite drastic, I understand where it's coming from, but I believe it can be easily taken care of if the people themselves try to do something about this, namely the primary institution, provided to us by our country's administration, that is suited for this kind of problem - the VCPD.

[Kowalski.]

The situation's severity rate is irrelevant, it's against the law either way, and this petition seems to me like an outreach to work upon this. Other than the problem of making this work, I do agree with it and support the initiative and the concept.

The measure is quite drastic, I understand where it's coming from, but I believe it can be easily taken care of if the people themselves try to do something about this, namely the primary institution, provided to us by our country's administration, that is suited for this kind of problem - the VCPD.

Unfortunately, as previously mentioned, the State Police and the Federal Bureau of Investigation are severely understaffed. This makes it difficult to combat this sort of problem, and due to the high criminality rate in the city, I don't see a majority actually working on incorporating this.

You need to understand that there is only so much that can be done under the circumstances, and that we're doing what is possible with our current staff count and our resources.

(OOC: Yes, quite a bump, but its an active petition so whatever )

[SamirM]

the criminals who have been caught red-handed have been scared or financially crippled to the point they will have a hard time to recover or have gone into hiding for an extended period of time.

Spoiler for Hiden:

hhhh
ahaha
aHAHAHAHHA
HAHAHhahahHA
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA
AHAHAHHHAHA HAHHAHAHAHAH HAH AHAHAHHAHA
HAHAH HHA AH AHA HHAHHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHA

no criminal is dumb enough to fish ogras with a million cops in sight (atleast without a deterrent)
those who have been caught will only want to fill the financial gap
of course, indeed, they'll be able to do that with pizza boy
when the server is empty, the only worry I have is for the Ogras to start jumping out of the sea and beating me with it's fins

I hate it when actual server issues are addressed in a RP manner (I worded myself very badly here)
let me take an example to show you what I'm talking about
I once complained about the high tax rate. the admins rebutted with ''high level of crime''

love, I don't see anybody walking the streets casually attempting to do not any crime at all
that's the job of the imagined people of the city who unlike us don't have a real life and real worries and responsibilites and who simply have the time and patience and point to be doing this shit

obviously there's a high level of crime when you are considering the ''server population'', Vice City can't be imagined with a population of about 200 people (minimum, registered users, real number is prolly larger than that), with a large % of them going ''offline''
all in all, the ''server'' part of the population is pretty much hardline criminals, soft criminals or the police. There's no in-between.
there's literally no fun in playing a regular-ass citizen, I wouldn't log on if that was my only thing to do

you might argue we have people like Dani who do the odd jobs like pizzaboy
indeed, he hasn't killed anybody, hasn't smuggled cars, hasn't done smuggle operations, or hasn't done any criminal RP which is pretty much the bread and butter of this server, and maybe he's cop idk haven't checked I'll be back in January to no-life the shit out of this

another example is right here, Nylez asked a question regarding the server and has offered a solution, but apparently you can't access the script because irl people can't change ogra prices
then again, this is a dumb argument due to the fact that this was asked in a RP manner

[Huntsman]

I never thought I'd be agreeing with Samir, but I am. This is not a roleplay problem, let's not treat it as such.

Just look at the server and the way it is built - it is constructed for only three kinds of roles, as Samir mentioned - hardcore criminals, casual criminals and the police. There is no in between like SAMP used to have, where the formerly large player base allowed for interesting civilian groups to be opened and roleplays to happen. In fact,  there are no "civilians" in VCMP. The most fun part of the server is to either be a hardcore criminal or a cop, because that's where the most fun script support is. You're proposing a soluton to a problem that is not really a problem. If you want a change like that, you need to reconstruct the way server works from the ground up, including some radical rule changes.

I think this is proven by the fact that the moment the police force has a hindering activity, server activity drops drastically, because since everyone are in one way or another criminals, they lose the challenge aspect of the game and it becomes boring. Even the few active/semi-active cops that are left are often off duty, which is contributing to the problem.

[SamirM]

I never thought I'd be agreeing with Samir, but I am.

I'd like to go off-topic for a quick second and just ask you people something

Could you please stop treating me like an idiot?
I guess you could say my reputation is in the gutter or many of the hardliners hate me (because of the stubborn people they can be) but I'm just going to ask you guys nicely to please be alright to me and forget the past (if you think I was a dickhead before, in which in some honesty I was, but we're going to get nowhere with this kind of argument)

When I came back 4 days ago on new year's eve, since then I haven't been rude or shit to anybody undeserving

I have been even trying to be nice to you personally Huntsman, like in your ''How are ya's'' post in vain hopes of trying to establish a normal friendship

Please cut out the behavior of you treating me like a dumbass, you guys know what I'm talking about

Anyways, thanks for reading this, thanks in advance for understanding and let's not go back to this topic again. 

I also have to give apologies to the administration for bringing up this topic in the middle of a serious debate, but I thought this'd be a good opportunity.

Continue the banter about the economy now, let's go

[Huntsman]

I never thought I'd be agreeing with Samir, but I am.

I'd like to go off-topic for a quick second and just ask you people something

Could you please stop treating me like an idiot?
I guess you could say my reputation is in the gutter or many of the hardliners hate me (because of the stubborn people they can be) but I'm just going to ask you guys nicely to please be alright to me and forget the past (if you think I was a dickhead before, in which in some honesty I was, but we're going to get nowhere with this kind of argument)

When I came back 4 days ago on new year's eve, since then I haven't been rude or shit to anybody undeserving

I have been even trying to be nice to you personally Huntsman, like in your ''How are ya's'' post in vain hopes of trying to establish a normal friendship

Please cut out the behavior of you treating me like a dumbass, you guys know what I'm talking about

Anyways, thanks for reading this, thanks in advance for understanding and let's not go back to this topic again. 

I also have to give apologies to the administration for bringing up this topic in the middle of a serious debate, but I thought this'd be a good opportunity.

Continue the banter about the economy now, let's go

Well you've spent years trying to present yourself as an idiot by being a literal troll in and outside the game. People don't just change opinion on you overnight. I learned that the hard way.

Anyhow, I was not implying anything with that message. I simply meant that we often disagree and that it's surprising I end up agreeing with you.

Anyhow, off-topic off.

[SamirM]

Alright so, I wanted to make a similar topic such as this on here with pretty much the same headline, although I think this can be achieved differently.

I am sorry if this explanation is lackluster; I do not know a different way to explain it.

I think money shouldn't be pulled out of the server's ass. Money is literally being spawned in through police job, ogra market, vehicle smuggles (and a lot of fucking money from it), and so on.

I think we should have a literal economy, instead of money being spawned out of the middle of nowhere when someone brings Kessu's Banshee to the crane.

I think we should put this damn tax money to use. I think there should be economy debt, with it crashing and going up overtime. Tax money (and fucking big tax money we already accumulated) should NOT evaporate in thin air because hurr durr balance (I don't actually know what the fuck there is to balance, people will have ridiculous bank balances any way you slice it, this simply increases crime, this is the same point Nylez addressed in OP.

What crime, love, what crime? ''High crime rate'' is a statistic pulled out of your hairy asshole. As I said before, if the entire server population counts as criminals those who aren't cops, then in that case we can also say that the population of Vice City is usually 7-15, AT 7 AM - 15 PM, but mostly at night it's a ghost town because they are ''offline'', and some ''registered'' users are ''banned'' by ''admins''. Those civilians who are perfectly normal are as I said before the imagined people of Vice City, which help because they are in our imagination and have a purpose. (trainwreck of a sentence, I know)

Admins set the tax rate to a fucking absurd 30% due to the fact that they're trolling and at the same time don't take any shit from anybody. Please, more than a quarter goes to the bank? Are you insane?

And that's the thing; admins don't want to simulate economies and that shit because they are administrators. They administrate the server. They can't possibly give a fuck, as we will play on the server no matter what, meaning there's no urge or rush to do anything. Some admins literally (and I mean literally) admitted they don't give a fuck about managing the economy properly, and there won't be a government body anytime soon. The admins are the closest to that, followed by the police heads (their announcements are pretty much state announcements), and then the influential people (aka those who own the 3 ammunations, please don't tell me enormous power doesn't come from the fact you are literally the only source of weapons, and weapon prices are at your mercy? Oh I get 450 AK after a smuggle operation? Ooh, good job, ima sell it for a whopping price of $1600 dollars! Yee that'll keep me running for like a fucking hour of playing at the server

Once had an unstated admin argue ''you know why the payphone price is $20? because you criminals are big bad and you create big sad of economiee waah salt salt cry cry and cry''
I never cringed so hard in my life, do you seriously expect me to roam around the server and boringly interact with people legally, when literally not even a single soul is doing that? You are out of your mind. Alright, that may be too harsh, yes there's script support for pizzaboy, but eveybody who's not a cop (Stalker, Aky, Klaus for example) is either a casual criminal (Kessu, Nylez for example) or a hardline criminal (Martino, me, Alarba, Affanster, Han, Amal for example)

(Also, by the way, with the ''admins being lazy'' statement I am not denying in any way that the scripters aren't doing a good job, this is unarguably the best script in VCMP, and the most polished. Just look at the fucking smuggling yacht script! What I'm essentially stating is that the admins can't give less of a fuck how the economy runs down here, and use /settax as their ultimate savior to this problem)

This reconstruction of the economy I mentioned (having money circle around) will also help combat moneycheating in a way.

TL:DR stop being lazy fucks and have money circle around instead of spawning it from the server's asshole, thx