What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?

[Huntsman]

Let's all SAMPers turn to VCMP and see when we close it down or end up all banned. 

That wouldn't happen. See, we aren't as easily offended as SAMP players are (Hey, I'm actually quoting Aragorn here and have put his quote rather mildly) and you wouldn't close us down because we haven't relied on Argonath host for several years already.  It's all paid out of our server leadership's pockets.

Anyhow, I think VCMP's situation proved that "SAMP is old" is not an argument.

[jovanca]

Personally, I brought several people back to argonath few months ago when abusive staff member banned me, and the hq decided to let me stay banned. Guess what, everyone i made active stopped playing as well.

It was incompetent leaders that killed Argo samp. While one may say SAMP is dying, and in fact overall activity on SAMP did decrease over the last few years, ever since outburst of the corona pandemic, activity on samp is blooming again. A lot of servers had up to 300% average activity jump since that happened, but Argo's previous and current leaders literally made all of their IC enemies want to never come back and play. 

[Sawyer]

Let's all SAMPers turn to VCMP and see when we close it down or end up all banned. 

Anyhow, I think VCMP's situation proved that "SAMP is old" is not an argument.

I know. I don't argue with anything that Nylez said other than the personal quotes which are obviously inaccurate and way false to me. As for my "Let's all SAMPers turn to VCMP" sort of sarcasm it was obviously meant to be a joke. Apologies if it ain't your type of humor.

Neither "SAMP is old" or "until exams are over" are actual arguments and the last two years prove just why. We'd all be fools to think otherwise at this point.

[Manoni]

You people still didn't answer to this question?

They did

These kinds of topics killed it.

[Hammer_]

"these topics fucked up argo"
*wonders how topics could fuck up argo when someone else literally fucked it up*
I actually think you're so childish, and dumb to accept the fact that your own fault was the reason of this mess. Let me show you the reality, Marcel changed the "drugs" script to smth which pays a bit less, I don't quite remember it, and went on with a shitty attitude. No problemo, this was one of the reasons. Second reason, another server starts up at the right moment to fuck it up. Third, HQ fights between themselves. False accusations, this that, everything. Whole server turned on each other, it's like a massive fight occured, if only the HQ could have control over their egos during that time, and be actually helpful to the server, I bet Argo wouldn't have died. The reason some servers are still populated because they have an active HQ who's willing to put their best in keeping the server online, being there for issues. Our HQ had barely 2 scripters, and somewhat HQ members who didn't even play. Good job! "these topics fucked argo", literally piss off! You just come up with thousands of excuses.

[TheGreasyChopper]

Before I start off with the point of this topic, I believe I need to clarify the definitions of a few terms I will be using.

Spoiler for Hiden:

First and most important – Roleplay. I’ll use the Wikipedia article:
“A role-playing game (sometimes spelled roleplaying game;[1][2] abbreviated RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making regarding character development”

Roleplaying in SA:MP would mean you assume the Role of your Character and develop him or her and act out the way HE or SHE WOULD. You are NOT your character. So any personal feelings you may have toward someone OOC(Or outside of Roleplay for those who do not recognize OOC) do not matter. If your character never met them or heard of them through RP, he should be indifferent. This is why I believe Metagaming is a vital part of the roleplay process. To put it short – Roleplaying is acting out and developing your character’s actions in a realistic and reasonable way.

Activity – This is NOT the player slots being filled in game. Activity is the interactions between the players. When you go out with your friends IRL to do activities, you interact with them, talk with them, drink and play with them as well as interact with the people around if you are in a public space. To put it short activity is things happening, not people in game.

Powergaming – It has two definitions, both of which are valid. It is either your /me emotes enforcing a certain action on the other participant (e.g. /me punches X in the face, knocking out his teeth and making him unconscious). The other definition would be the play 2 win attitude, which is basically taking part in scenarios with the sole purpose of coming out as a “winner”. To put it in Argonath terminology – it is both “forcing roleplay” and “play2win”.

Now, to start off – you might say that “Argonath is not dead”, “We are active” etc. Yes, there are players In Game. But honestly, whenever I head In Game it feels empty. I’ve had more fun and interactions and seen more activity half a year ago when we had 1-5/200 players. I’m not posting this to trashtalk any groups, admins, HQ or whatnot. My main interest is the good of Argonath, it has always been.

Yes, SA:MP Argonath does have a decent playerbase nowadays. But there is no activity, no interactions between the players. Back in the day, groups and players actually interacted with eachother – providing enjoyable scenarios for all sides involved. Which sadly is something that has not happened in years. People pull guns, kidnap, beat up PD members just for pulling them over for a traffic violation. A recent example would be the situation with the recently elected Mayor of Los Santos. The person who became mayor did so only because they were the only candidate. People simply did not care enough to involve themselves in politics. What happens when they get elected? They start getting kidnapped for whatever reasons and I can only assume is because certain individuals wish to profit off of it.

In all honesty, I believe kidnappings should be monitored and limited as well as regulated like shootouts. I’ve seen my fair share of scenarios where people are being kidnapped for the sake of their tag or group they belong to. Afterward they proceed to get tortured and forced to remain on the scene, despite it being graphic. That is disgusting and graphic roleplay, which should only happen when both sides are okay with it. Very few people would enjoy their character being tortured and killed just because of a tag they wear. This generally made Argonath a rather hostile place for people, because you get bullied and tormented, just because you chose to join a certain group.

Another thing, which I believe is the main issue that lead to the downfall and decrease of the playerbase. The majority of groups at the time(mostly formed by people who were new) based all their roleplay and interactions on the scripts. You have weedfields, meth cooks, black market and notoriety, scripted properties and owning them. During the “good times”, roleplay was all over. You had people like Jcs and his Immigration Patrol. There was no script for showing someone your passport, nor were there any laws against that. It was people having fun and interacting with eachother. Mexican gangs roleplaying as illegals were running and hiding from them. They had scripted passports, but simply roleplayed. They wrote stories. The majority of the remaining playerbase does not engage in roleplay. You no longer have mafia families opening their Clubs, hosting different groups, cops, clans and engaging in club roleplay. You do not see roleplay races – it is mostly admin hosted events which are “go here > countdown > race > announce winner > give money”, most of which is in public chat or admin announcements. Instead of having it all being roleplayed, having people contact eachother IC and organize the race, inviting people with SMS and calls.

You don’t have people interacting with eachother. Everyone is driving around, sometimes growing weed, sometimes getting in a cop chase. They do not care for the consequences for their characters. They’ll die, respawn, wait out some time and do it again. It is insane.

One of the things that contributed to this is the division in a few major groups. Sure, you can say that they are different groups and allies, associates whatnot. But we all know that there are only three criminal groups and they have been around for the last 2-3 years. You may give out different names, you may act as allies, but the structure is the same. The mentality is the same. You have those groups driving around in their cars, fully armed and armored up, drive up to the weedfield, plant, wait the hours, harvest – go sell and buy the next property. They buy properties they never open to the public, they never use for anything else but a rendezvous point.

I can continue listing, but it’d come down to knit picking. The main problem is – there is little to none activity in Argonath SA:MP and there is even less incentive to join the server. Why would I go InGame, when there is no place I can go to roleplay at(Like GS9 for example)? I can go grind the script, truck, plant weed, mine and then go off. But this is something I can do in SinglePlayer as well with the help of a few mods. I do not go on SA:MP to play alone, I go to interact with others and roleplay.

My question goes out to everyone. What can we do to bring activity back? What groups and businesses would you guys like to see in order to encourage you to roleplay and interact with the others? What will be required for all those year-long OOC based group conflicts to end, for the sake of Argonath’s future? What turned us into script-dependent zombies who cannot use our imagination and what can we do to encourage that?

One thing I will address before it is stated. I recognize that I disagree with some people OOC, I recognize I’ve had conflicts in the past. But that is my problem. Not my character’s. Whenever I go In Game, I am my character and I should not be limited and ignored based on who I am OOC. Feel free to trashtalk me in DMs or Discord, IG PMs and public chat, you have the right to dislike me. But think about what comes out of it. Nothing. Just because you had issues with someone in the far away or recent past does not mean you should ignore his characters or automatically be hostile to him. We are all here for one reason, and that’s Argonath. Anything else is additional flavor.

So for the sake of Argonath – bury all hatches, start off something new and original, involve others and let us be a healthy and friendly community, rather than just talk about being one.


tl;dr:
My question to all is - what can we do to promote activity and get people actually interacting with eachother in a way enjoyable for all sides involved?

Just gonna leave this here and bring the discussion back to the original concept of the topic.

Do not derail my thread with interpretations or reply based on the topic name. Read the first post and state your case or go make another topic if you wish to continue circlejerking.

Things got far worse from the time I originally posted the topic, but question remains - Why did you stop roleplaying and what will it take to get you back to it? Have you no wish to RP, fuck off and find another community to kill off already.

[Julio.]

To be honest, at this point it is basically like starting your own server from anew. The "residual" count of players we had that would have returned will now have established themselves elsewhere. Unless Argonath can provide a far superior experience to their "new" servers, it won't attract people back in bulk.

The time to "restore" the player count was in the two years post-RS4. Argonath has been on damage control since then, and needed desperate life support from the server owners when the hacking campaign was prevalent which never truly arrived.

What's left for people to decide is whether they stay out of loyalty for the "server name" or "brand", or whether they go elsewhere. It says a lot that that at least two other communities have spawned off the back of what has not worked here.

I find it particularly ironic that we've come full circle to a similar scenario from which Argonath was formed. It could be argued Argonath is the newest "Anke borg". (Yes, the "origin" server of Argonath is still censored on here as "ab" if you try to write it without the space).

[Thomas_A]

*wonders how topics could fuck up argo when someone else literally fucked it up*
I don't quite remember it

 this that, everything.

You just the living example of it. Why bother posting? 

[Hammer_]

*wonders how topics could fuck up argo when someone else literally fucked it up*
I don't quite remember it

 this that, everything.

You just the living example of it. Why bother posting? 

Bruh, you just come up with excuses rather than putting efforts in fixing this server. OH WAIT, LETS MAKE EFFORTS AFTER DRIVING EVERYONE OUT OF THIS SERVER AND BE LEFT WITH NO ADMIN, NO SCRIPTER AND BE JUST LIKE THAT INNIT!!!!

[Khm]

*wonders how topics could fuck up argo when someone else literally fucked it up*
I don't quite remember it

 this that, everything.

You just the living example of it. Why bother posting? 

Bruh, you just come up with excuses rather than putting efforts in fixing this server. OH WAIT, LETS MAKE EFFORTS AFTER DRIVING EVERYONE OUT OF THIS SERVER AND BE LEFT WITH NO ADMIN, NO SCRIPTER AND BE JUST LIKE THAT INNIT!!!!

Drug prices dropping sounds like a good excuse to leave ye. I think you should read your own signature more carefully. Rather than finding an excuse how about discussing about how to improve?

[Hammer_]

*wonders how topics could fuck up argo when someone else literally fucked it up*
I don't quite remember it

 this that, everything.

You just the living example of it. Why bother posting? 

Bruh, you just come up with excuses rather than putting efforts in fixing this server. OH WAIT, LETS MAKE EFFORTS AFTER DRIVING EVERYONE OUT OF THIS SERVER AND BE LEFT WITH NO ADMIN, NO SCRIPTER AND BE JUST LIKE THAT INNIT!!!!

Drug prices dropping sounds like a good excuse to leave ye. I think you should read your own signature more carefully. Rather than finding an excuse how about discussing about how to improve?

That's a great idea, to be very honest, I gotta drop my shitty attitude, I'm just short-tempered. We gotta start off with dropping our toxicity towards each other, and be actually present IG, with all the willing groups who want to play.

[Stivi]

Kinda sad, but SAMP has no future. It hasn't had a future for a long time now, only hope.

Maybe a new webmaster will save it lol

[Bogomil]

I have spotted how certain people think they are something more than the others just because they played for longer and have better understanding of English. The winning mentality killed the server, everyone being a snowflake killed the server, "I'll report every staff member who dares to punish me, but when I become a member of the staff I'll punish for the most ridiculous reasons." killed the server, the always unhappy and greedy developer who was accepted thousand times back even though he does nothing killed the server. I mean there are so many reasons behind argonath's death, for sure Carbon, Gandalf and everyone fucking else who went inactive once they got promoted have failed, but come on - everyone is guilty. Those people who said they rather play alone than with pakis were wrong and proved how "loyal" they are. Hatred killed Argonath. I apologize if I was toxic at some point. Can you apologize as well?

[Thomas_A]

*wonders how topics could fuck up argo when someone else literally fucked it up*
I don't quite remember it

 this that, everything.

You just the living example of it. Why bother posting? 

Bruh, you just come up with excuses rather than putting efforts in fixing this server. OH WAIT, LETS MAKE EFFORTS AFTER DRIVING EVERYONE OUT OF THIS SERVER AND BE LEFT WITH NO ADMIN, NO SCRIPTER AND BE JUST LIKE THAT INNIT!!!!

What exactly have you done?

[Andeey]

the reality is.. It's 2020 and everyone day by day is getting more and more sensitive and with such a "small" playerbase even the slightest change in ruling or change in script can make them all riot and give up.(even if it's the right change)