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[Kostas]

Well I didn't know we are failling everywhere. That's actually pretty sad.

I believe the problem is in our ability to keep the old players, as well as the new commers.

I can't talk about servers like Minecraft. But I believe the problem with our light RP servers lays in the foundation. I believe people either wanna play in an RP server, or in freeroam/games etc... I think the whole idea of a light RP server is flawed. It creates lots of space for missconception, where one side wants to RP "better" or more realistic than the other, ending up with that side losing interest in the server due to that... The place usually feels closer to a freeroam server than it does to an RP one, hence why people who come here to RP usually end up frustrated more often than they should in my opinion.
 I know I will attract lots of negative attention with this but the only reason I stayed around for so long, even though I come and go are the players and the friends I made here, and not the server itself. I would've probably moved to another server a thousand times if I hadn't met the people I have here, yet every time I did, I once again returned here for the people I met.

I know most won't agree with me, and that's fine. But freeroam players don't want to play on a semi-RP server, and when they do, they damage it. and RP players usually would rather stick to a heavy RP server, rather than a light RP one. The number of players that fall in between are too little in my opinion.

[Sawyer]

   
The SAMP server has always been about RPing.

This new light-heavy RP trend was brought to the table when people felt the need to go the extra mile to make their point as well as to point fingers to whose fault it actually is.

The only existing way to have your voice heard is to simply keep doing what you have always done; have fun. If you cannot really enjoy your time being in the server anymore, that’s probably for plenty of reasons of every kind, not because the server turned to a free roam one, because quite frankly the healthy core of this community brings a fair amount of RPing to it. You as a veteran can be a crucial part into adding additional RPing vibe, and I can guarantee the current state of the server has a very welcoming environment for you to appreciate, that’s only if you still are interested of course.

[JDC]

I find that in recent years, Argonath SA:MP has moved from "Light RP" to "Medium RP"; certain standards/RP rules are now enforced (IC/OOC, metagaming, powergaming, safezones, etc.), while still not prohibiting freeroam/chilling outside of RP situations nor (in today's era) going so far as to forcing people to remain in an RP sit even if they have to leave the game. After an RP sit, you can just sit around and chill, but when within one you are expected to RP reasonably not just by the expectations of others but by the rules of the server itself.

IMO it's a middle ground that has something to offer for different types of players - freeroamers/light RPers, serious RPers, and everyone in between. I myself RP a decent amount (as Pope or one of my other characters), then sit back and chill/relax and just talk especially after having a really long RP sit or consecutive shorter ones. Players can even fuck around among themselves if they're bored, but are expected to act properly in front of others. There is enough support, systems, and safeguards for players to do just about anything they want.

We in HQ can offer all the support players want, but in turn we need you - especially veterans - to take the initiative. Or else, we will not get anywhere. Be part of the change, if not spearhead it yourselves, instead of waiting for it to fall on your lap. If you want a fruit from a tree, pick the fruit from the branch instead of laying beneath the tree and waiting for it to fall into your mouth. What we can do is give you the ladder so you can easier get whatever fruit you want.

The recent Elections were a good example. As HQ, we officially instituted the elections with its parts and guidelines, but it was the players themselves who produced good campaigns and brilliant, creative RPs - all because they took the initiative to make the most of what we have to give.

[Alfreddo.]

The recent Elections were a good example. As HQ, we officially instituted the elections with its parts and guidelines, but it was the players themselves who produced good campaigns and brilliant, creative RPs - all because they took the initiative to make the most of what we have to give.

I remember that one day we had to take a pause cause we had RP scenes one after another for more than 6hours, iirc it was last Saturday or something.  Players bring others alive and veterans with their experience talks a lot nowadays, they tend to show creativity to newcomers or build more fun.

[Gird3r]

certain standards/RP rules are now enforced (IC/OOC, metagaming, powergaming, safezones, etc.)

Maybe I'm just old school but we found this ridicilous even further back in the day (2005-2008), it might have been a assumption, but we expected players to understand the difference between a RP and OOC.
It could also have been the smaller community at the time, making it obvious when someone was serious or whatever, or who was a full blown ganster running coke with the mexicans.
I personally did not have a problem with it existing during the SA-MP era, what was a problem however was people expecting other people to use it or be damned to hell (people would literally flip their shit if you did not use /ooc or anything similar). The drama around it was a problem.
People also took RP in sa-mp as a reason to go way overboard with the swearing and generally being a massive turd, then claim "But I did not use OOC so it was not a personal attack lololol".

I still belivie generally in that people are intelligent enough to understand when it's rp and when it's "ooc" without commands. But meh. Supporting it with commands is fine.

[Cutt3r]

Stopped playing sometime last June or so with the baby on the way at the time. Now she is more than a year old. I do play games for about 4 to 6 hours a week but I wouldn't consider samp again.

For one, I miss the old player base. Can I not get used to new players? Yes. But that brings me to the second point - quality, light rp was lacking. Some guys played along when I opened my liquor store in Fort Carson, others just found a way to come in and pull out a gun without any rp whatsoever. Get suspected and run. I found it quite frustrating, especially when we have few players. Third, it wasn't relaxing for me. I don't run around in circles when someone says something, being confused about whether it's ic or ooc. I trust others to figure things out too. Why do we need to be sp confused about things and put literally everything in rules? What happened to common sense?

To sum up, I miss the old days (boo hoo) and I can't get used to the new one. This is why I wish we had lighter, simple rules, old scripts and stuff - I felt this would bring old players back and if 10% of them stay, it's a win.

I know I may not be right in everything (or anything) shared above but I'm a comparatively older person than a lot of you. Hence my thought process and priorities may be very different.

[Andeey]

Get the stick out of your asses, This is to both players and administration, prioritise fun and you might actually see a growth in playerbase atleast somewhere.

[Astaroth]

Get the stick out of your asses, This is to both players and administration, prioritise fun and you might actually see a growth in playerbase atleast somewhere.

JDC is doing a pretty decent job, but yeah, if they actually give people what they want , and just chill out a little, might be a bit better.

[JDC]

Despite being in HQ/Staff today, my background is closer to your 'generation' than that of the newer players/friends I met since I came back, as I spent more years back then compared to the time I put in since my return. It's just that times have changed and that means we have to navigate the reality as it is, including adjusting to things I was not a fan of back then - such as distinguishing IC/RP and OOC/non-RP, metagaming, powergaming/forcing RP, etc. At the same time, we try to keep what makes Argonath special - our "soul", so to speak.

Speaking for the HQ and Staff, we do try to apply our best common-sense administration, which for me also includes views I retained from the old days. And that includes not buying "it was just RP" bullshit from people who clearly have the intent to insult others.

RP Standards: We are also working with players and groups to maintain an adequate level of RP, including rewarding/motivating players and groups who put in the proper effort to RP in good faith and good fun with others instead of just fucking around, regardless of if they're a 'casual'/light/chill roleplayer or the hardcore type who can write a novel about their character/s. We have also given warnings to players and groups if they ruin the RP atmosphere for others.

Simplicity of Server Rules: As for the Server Rules being too complicated, I fully agree. While I understand that previous HQs have needed to add so many safeguards due to the amount of rulebreaking and finding loopholes in the past, I believe in simplifying the Rules enough so (almost) all players can understand them fairly easily instead of becoming like lawyers digging through mountains of laws. This is on my agenda, but is a major policy change, so all of us in HQ will have to work together on this, as we decide big changes collectively.

Personally, I try to make the best of both my experience 'growing up' in past Argonath, and making use of the skills I have learned during the years I was away to help present Argonath. Like you, I celebrate players we can bring back - and new players we can retain - as victories that make it all worthwhile.

[JDC]

Get the stick out of your asses, This is to both players and administration, prioritise fun and you might actually see a growth in playerbase atleast somewhere.

On the contrary, the environment of the server I returned to last Dec. 2020 was the most friendly, positive, and personal I'd ever seen in many years of Argonath. Players actually prioritizing fun and friendship and trying their best despite the odds and the low playercount, sometimes even when they got tired, bored, or demotivated. We in HQ/Staff have to thank the players who stayed (and are coming back), as well as past good HQs like Khm's, for fighting to raise the quality despite the drama and crises of recent years.

And then there's you who crashed the server repeatedly to show off to your friends, then having the gall to ask to become Manager again right after. Not to mention your past leadership history which included bias, corruption, abuse of power, even racist hate campaigns - things that helped drag down Argonath SA:MP in recent years. Yet you continue pretending that you are better than everyone and have no responsibility for the mess which we, from players to Staff to HQ, have been working to fix.

Don't want the facts about you exposed in public? Then stop spouting lies and constantly attacking Argonath players/admins as if you know better than those who actually did their best to help Argonath survive. Try growing some self-awareness and basic decency for a change, it will help you in life.

[JDC]

JDC is doing a pretty decent job, but yeah, if they actually give people what they want , and just chill out a little, might be a bit better.

Thank you. We are doing our best, and I dare say we've made a good amount of progress with both HQ and Development updates in the past two months. The amount of incoming ideas/suggestions is at an all-time high for 2021 and so are the changes from HQ and Devs. We are doing what we can to balance giving what players want with maintaining a system that can work for as many as possible, and we remain open to player ideas that we can implement.

However the current team is still new and there is a lot to fix, with fixing broken/dysfunctional things taking a higher (but not exclusive) priority over adding new content. So despite what we have already done, this is only the beginning. As we try to raise the player count, we have to work within the limits of our current manpower and resources, so please bear with us.

I won't bullshit you; I won't promise that we can fix or reverse all the damage from the crises of the past several years. But I can promise you that we sure as hell will try, not just to help Argonath survive, but to make it thrive once more.

In terms of temperament though, IMO we are chill enough. I personally do my best to be approachable, involved in daily server life, and hands-on in supporting players, while still being strict against troublemakers who try to screw things up for others. Of course, you are free to let us know if you think we make mistakes.

[Astaroth]

JDC is doing a pretty decent job, but yeah, if they actually give people what they want , and just chill out a little, might be a bit better.

Thank you. We are doing our best, and I dare say we've made a good amount of progress with both HQ and Development updates in the past two months. The amount of incoming ideas/suggestions is at an all-time high for 2021 and so are the changes from HQ and Devs. We are doing what we can to balance giving what players want with maintaining a system that can work for as many as possible, and we remain open to player ideas that we can implement.

However the current team is still new and there is a lot to fix, with fixing broken/dysfunctional things taking a higher (but not exclusive) priority over adding new content. So despite what we have already done, this is only the beginning. As we try to raise the player count, we have to work within the limits of our current manpower and resources, so please bear with us.

I won't bullshit you; I won't promise that we can fix or reverse all the damage from the crises of the past several years. But I can promise you that we sure as hell will try, not just to help Argonath survive, but to make it thrive once more.

In terms of temperament though, IMO we are chill enough. I personally do my best to be approachable, involved in daily server life, and hands-on in supporting players, while still being strict against troublemakers who try to screw things up for others. Of course, you are free to let us know if you think we make mistakes.

You got it bud.

And I didn't mean chill like "Ah they need to stop punishing people". I meant chill out with the regulations, and chill out with scheduling meetings with "HQ" to implement the most simple changes like we're running the U.S congress here. If they're not active, they should just back the F off and let you do your thing. All I'm saying. It's a game, people lose interest quickly, and I'd hate to see that happen to you since you're just starting to build some type of community.

If you have to "run things through a vote" for every simple thing that you know would help the community, I feel sorry.

[JDC]

You got it bud.

And I didn't mean chill like "Ah they need to stop punishing people". I meant chill out with the regulations, and chill out with scheduling meetings with "HQ" to implement the most simple changes like we're running the U.S congress here. If they're not active, they should just back the F off and let you do your thing. All I'm saying. It's a game, people lose interest quickly, and I'd hate to see that happen to you since you're just starting to build some type of community.

If you have to "run things through a vote" for every simple thing that you know would help the community, I feel sorry.

No need to worry; as a Manager, our CLs give me enough trust and support to implement SA:MP HQ plans with the help of Devs/Staff. Any minor (and some mid-level) HQ changes, I can do on on my own (or delegate), given my mandate of handling HQ's day-to-day and implementing the plans I proposed when I applied.

It's just that the more important a change or policy (e.g. recruiting/promoting Staff, changing Server Rules, bigger development updates), the more it has to be discussed internally, since we work as a team and leadership collective. Having each other to rely on helps us make better decisions and refine plans, and also serves as an internal check-and-balance to avoid the risks that come with one person having absolute power — which in the past did not work out for the best. 👀

This way, we can move fast while making sure we still make the right decisions.

[Nathan]

Hi, I don't see a need for this topic anymore. With the changes in HQ and actual activity coming back up, I see only a positive direction for the time being.

[Cutt3r]

Awesome, happy things are moving in a positive direction!