Killing spree rewards for cops

[Klaus]

I know, you're reading the subject and thinking this sounds like something you'd find on a CNR server but hear me out a little. I believe cops should be rewarded for killing sprees. That is, kills without deaths.

One thing I like about the current cop reward system compared to previous ones (1.9) is that shitty cops who die 20+ times only to then get a lucky chrome headshot are not heavily rewarded for dying over and over. It's the same price despite the number of times you die - 1/2k.

That's all great and all, but the problem I feel are that the monetary value of cop job is now almost non existent, when before it was the most profitable job. Cops who are actually good at their jobs do not get properly rewarded. You can roll in like John McClane and kill 3 criminals in a row and only earn a pitiful 3-4k, 6k if you're lucky. That might seem decent, but it's nothing when you compare it to how easy money is currently attainable as criminal and the challenge of killing 3 veteran criminals.

Why do I think rewarding killing sprees can help?

1. It helps solve a key issue - cops not valuing their lives. Yes this doesn't outright solve this issue but it helps. It gives an incentive to stay alive and rack up sprees to earn double, triple, etc. earnings.

2. It rewards cops who are doing a good job, that is neutralizing targets whilst keeping casualties to a minimum. It will increase the monetary value of the job and maybe entice a few more to join the police. That is of course, if they're actually good at it.

Discuss.

[Kowalski.]

I'm actually in full support of this, a little motivation for the cops would be great.

[Nylez]

All for it, but I don't think it'll change much.

Reckless cops and "meatshields" is what this department needs.
I personally always try to stay alive if I play on the server so as a freecop I do exactly that.
Some players have learned themselves that aggression is the way to go.

How are you going to reward the cops that don't die but don't get the kill/jail on a suspect either? "Thanks for being here but according to the logs you did nothing so here's a middle finger for you."

If you join cop job for the money, you're going to struggle in this town.
Whenever I play cop I always work together with the other cops, regardless of who they are. THAT is what should be rewarded. Good teamwork, good communication, good chasing as a unit.

Your idea probably will make cops just kill each other more and more over that final log that gives them the money. I don't think we should stimulate that kind of behavior script wise. Create a retirement fund or a bonus pot out of tax money and reward cops who do a good job with that. Paying a cop who dies in roleplay around $5000 to support their family is for example a realistic yet good way to approach.

We should reward good roleplay, not being good with kill logs.

[KenAdams]

I support Nylez' point. Such an implementation will support kill logs, rather than a proper roleplay. I may be a shit killer, but I can roleplay properly. We need roleplayers, not some sharpshooters, who can't even afford to properly roleplay.

[Klaus]

All for it, but I don't think it'll change much.

It'll improve things slightly, but as I said it won't be a drastic change and a complete solution to the problems.

I personally always try to stay alive if I play on the server

Quite frankly you're in the minority here.

How are you going to reward the cops that don't die but don't get the kill/jail on a suspect either?

Quite rightly, if they're doing nothing but being a distraction then you're not really as good as other cops who actually get the job done. This is just a fact. Reward those who are neutralizing and jailing criminals, not those eating donuts and chasing a suspect in circles for an hour.

If you join cop job for the money, you're going to struggle in this town.

This wasn't always the case, as I said, before policework was actually the most profitable. This actually helped entice new players to be cops instead of criminals. It's now gone the opposite since we've made more ways of earning money easily via illegal methods.

I always work together with the other cops, regardless of who they are. THAT is what should be rewarded. Good teamwork, good communication, good chasing as a unit.

This idea wouldn't change that. As always, if you're working so well as a team as you say, you'll split/share the rewards "as a team".

Your idea probably will make cops just kill each other more and more over that final log that gives them the money. I don't think we should stimulate that kind of behavior script wise.

Not really sure what you mean here? Why would cops be teamkilling each other? Either way, you won't last long on the server doing that.

Create a retirement fund or a bonus pot out of tax money and reward cops who do a good job with that.

Different idea entirely, and maybe something you should put a bit more thought into as it's got potential. There's a lot of loopholes you'd need to get around.

Paying a cop who dies in roleplay around $5000 to support their family is for example a realistic yet good way to approach.

Rewarding cops $5000 for dying is just plain dumb. I know what you're trying to say, but fact is we don't have actual "families" ingame and plus most of the time we don't even character kill cops who get killed on the field, so it wouldn't make any sense.

We should reward good roleplay, not being good with kill logs.

Slightly offtopic, but I'll answer. 'Good' roleplay cannot be rewarded via script, as it doesn't have the means/intelligence for it to be able to 'rate' a roleplay. Good roleplay is also opinionated, as what might seem like a good roleplay to one person, isn't to another person. So, yes the staff, players, etc. can continue to encourage what most deem as good roleplay and good roleplay etiquette , but the script cannot do this for us.

[Klaus]

Such an implementation will support kill logs, rather than a proper roleplay.

That doesn't even make sense. Right now, police are already paid on kill logs, nothing in this idea changes that core fact. What it does, is reward cops who are good at their jobs and have decent k/d ratios.

I may be a shit killer, but I can roleplay properly.

I'd suggest a different job then, honestly. I'm not going to beat around the bush here, but cops who cannot do nothing on the field are practically almost useless 90 percent of the time. That's not saying they should be restricted from the job, of course not. But rewarded for it? Hell no. Maybe FBI is more up your alley if you don't want to get your hands dirty.

We need roleplayers, not some sharpshooters, who can't even afford to properly roleplay.

Why are generalising 'sharpshooters' as people are cannot roleplay? That is simply put, ridiculous. You can be a good roleplay, as well as being good in combat.

[Kessu]

We need roleplayers, not some sharpshooters, who can't even afford to properly roleplay.

Some of the best DMers this game has ever seen are roleplayers from Argonath.

[1932]

To add something

That might seem decent, but it's nothing when you compare it to how easy money is currently attainable as criminal and the challenge of killing 3 veteran criminals.

It is not as always easy to be criminal. Spies are always there lookin for a chance. As a criminal, you have to take great risks, for example, you can get caught while retrieving or storing weapons in your house. On the other hand cops, cops get a standard gear and unlimited returns.


Overall, I support Klaus, more pay will attract the cops to do their job more intelligently rather than ramboing whole time and dying 10 times in the process and finally get 1k for killing the criminal.

[Klaus]

Spies are always there lookin for a chance. As a criminal, you have to take great risks, for example, you can get caught while retrieving or storing weapons in your house.

You're saying that a total number of 2 half-active FBI agents occasionally trying to catch something with 1 wire is a difficult challenge for criminals? Oh please...

Overall, I support Klaus, more pay will attract the cops to do their job more intelligently rather than ramboing whole time and dying 10 times in the process and finally get 1k for killing the criminal.

Yes, it's at least another incentive to try and avoid acting like John Rambo but actually being someone from the Police Academy 1984.

[Huntsman]

I am sorry, I know I am bumping this, but I was just skimming through this section and thought this should continue to be discussed.

I completely agree with the idea, only that calling it a "Killing Spree Reward" is a little too TDM'ish for my liking.

Instead, I'd rather like to call it as incentivization for not being careless on duty.

Back when I was Chief, one of my biggest priorities was to minimize the amount of casualties VCPD sustains during its operations and to get the officers to actually use their heads, tactics, and caution, to avoid dying and survive. I tried to always make sure that the officer prioritized not being killed over everything else, and took cover instead of rambo'ing.

Now I might have seen some success when I was there to watch and rant at them, but in reality they'd soon fall back to the careless "rush to kill first no matter how many times I die" behaviour when I was not watching.

That is because cops lack the fear of death.

Fear of death, or rather lack of, is a big issue in VCMP. But still, the citizen/criminal side still has some incentive to stay alive to avoid loosing money and weapons. Not something that the cops have to worry about.

This is why I think that this idea could be elaborated upon: cops could have something called "skill" or "performance levels". Everybody would start with a standard level, but excessive deaths (very bad K/D, or otherwise implemented stat) could also end up in their pay actually getting DOCKED, and their skill/field level dropping to "Poor" or "Suicidal". As well as, of course, having a good, or at least average K/D (or whatever other stat) would either keep you within standard performance or bump you up for more pay.

You would not need to be combat God to actually be able to up your level or avoid being docked: all one would need to do is just to actually act realistically for once and not storm a mob of criminals if they are the only unit available, or wait for backup/reinforcements before approaching high level threats or bigger numbers of criminals. It could also introduce the urgency to take cover, conserve their lives, and retreat of needed for PD, hence introducing some fear of death.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[Lonewolf]

 

[Klaus]

The idea was simple, as to add further reward but not change too much.

This is why I think that this idea could be elaborated upon: cops could have something called "skill" or "performance levels". Everybody would start with a standard level, but excessive deaths (very bad K/D, or otherwise implemented stat) could also end up in their pay actually getting DOCKED, and their skill/field level dropping to "Poor" or "Suicidal". As well as, of course, having a good, or at least average K/D (or whatever other stat) would either keep you within standard performance or bump you up for more pay.

Most new players start with poor combat skills, and it takes them time/experience to improve. As a result, it's normal for new players to have poor k/d ratios. That's completely fine, as no one expects new players to be incredibly skilled. Would docking their pay and unnecessarily labelling them as "Poor" be encouraging them to continue playing as a Cop? It wouldn't. Think of ways to reward the better police officers, whilst not necessarily punishing new players who are still learning.

You would not need to be combat God to actually be able to up your level or avoid being docked: all one would need to do is just to actually act realistically for once and not storm a mob of criminals if they are the only unit available, or wait for backup/reinforcements before approaching high level threats or bigger numbers of criminals. It could also introduce the urgency to take cover, conserve their lives, and retreat of needed for PD, hence introducing some fear of death.

You have to be tread carefully and make sure you don't discourage police officers to attempt stopping criminals because it's "safer" or more rewarding for them to avoid it. It is a common scenario for a cop to be outnumbered and outgunned, but we still want to entice that cop to attempt to stop the criminals. That way it remains fun for all involved.