Why did you leave?

[TheGreasyChopper]

Another suggestion: Enlist Greasy, Thom, and others in the HQ, give them the rights and authority to make changes, there is literally no downhill from where we're at right now.

Don't throw me under the bus like that  I'm afraid I do not have neither the time or the qualities for that position. I'm always open to give suggestions and discuss with HQ, helping them in any way needed. But being part of it is just not my thing, I'd rather not have to become the scapegoat for the server's issues.

[Nathan]

.

[Astaroth]

Again, I don't think the underlining issue is HQ necessary. I will say that JDC with the power of Badandy is a good combination. One of the best in my recent memory.

The bigger issue is the overall objective of the server and lack of server owners to lead in a direction. Community building is hard and there is a reason why most of us still login on a weekly basis to the forums.

10/10 - you're on point with what you are saying. Community building requires constant support and interaction.
Helping people figure things out, making things possible for players, incentivizing, etc. JDC and Badandy so far are taking on development, punishments, events, group management, community building, and probably a lot more we don't know about, and I think they are stretched thin.

I proposed something a while back, and maybe they will reconsider soon.

Assign a manager for community building
Assign a manager for Group Relations & Status
Assign a manager for punishments

Pros:
-Each of those is intertwined with the others, having 3 different people leading disables 1 person to have absolute control over all players, on all fronts.
-If one for whatever reason goes inactive, things keep moving by either assigning someone else, or have the other two fill in temporarily
-Three different perspectives is in all cases better than having only one.

Cons:
I really don't see any.

Another thing: Why are we afraid of quick turnovers? We're not married to each other. If some dude from 2018 owns a premium CB or a phone number, and hasn't logged in a while, give it out to someone active?

If some guy just logs in to pay taxes, give their shit out to someone active.

We can do better, I just don't know if we want to.

[Astaroth]

Quote instead of modify - my bad

[Huntsman]

I would just like to add and respond to the points by Nathan, if I may.

And before I get the good old "you don't even play" tune, let me clarify something, and hopefully this is to be the last time I have to. I have started Argonath in VC:MP, that is true, and always felt biased towards that server, mostly due to the fact that I felt that the community there is much more integral and accepting. However, there has been a significant period of time of several years where I no-lifed the shit out of Argonath SA:MP, somewhere from 2010 to 2015. I used to be a very active part of the server, sometimes not missing a day a week. So I got to see a little bit of RS3, then RS4, and the disastrous launch of RS5. I only completely stopped playing in 2016 due to going to the army, and then joining a university, at which point I went back to VC:MP full-time.

The first thing that caught my eye is that you think the owners should be more involved. My belief is: no fucking way.

I firmly believe that what has happened to Argonath is the responsibility, to an extent, of the RS4 era HQ, but most notably, the fault of the owners themselves.

I am sorry if I offend anyone, but RS4 era administration and server management were notorious for being fucking twats. They were rude, they were unprofessional, they were arrogant with their heads so far up their arses they forgot what sunshine looks like. Because Argonath had the numbers back then, they felt like they could treat players like yesterdays garbage. The notorious origins of "You don't like it - leave it" began in RS4, and the cancerous phrase was being thrown around to shut down anyone rooting for change, or trying to bring up any social issues of the server. Unfortunately, people seem to have learnt to take that advice.

However, they had a good role model to be like that - the server owners. They are some of the most arrogant, ignorant, and powertrippy people I have ever seen in the history of gaming. So many ideas that could have made Argonath "more modern", more appealing to current and new players alike, were shut down just because the owners said no, despite most people wanting to see these things implemented. Servers and communities were progressing, moving forward, taking advantage of the new functions new SAMP clients offered, but not Argonath. Argonath was stagnating, because "MUH VISION, MUH SERVER". RS5 came out, and it was a disaster. Every single one of those arrogant shits left with their tails between their legs and Teddy took over for damage control. He did all he could, and server saw so much positive change under his leadership, and it felt like players were being listened to at last. But even then, the owners were actively stopping Teddy from implementing features that the server community wanted implemented. I mean, if someone with as much patience and integrity as Teddy, just said fuck it and left , what do you expect? People get tired of being treated like irrelevant turds.

They are despots, always have been, and still are, and probably will remain to be. As someone has pointed out - Argonath, or rather what's left of it, has a serious Stockholm Syndrome issue. I find it hard to put into words how ridiculously funny it is to read Gandalf's and Aragorn's bullshit in their five hundreth "we are back" announcement. Even now, when community is pretty much breathing out its last breaths, they still find the audacity to be fucking smug, to be rude, and to insult the few players who are still left and keeping the community alive. They still have the audacity, after always conveniently disappearing during difficult times, to come back and start pointing fingers, and questioning the only few people left who give two shits in keeping Argonath together. And there are still sheep who stand by them. It's ridiculous, it's funny, and painful to watch. Like an agony of a dead spider. And how did that work out - after promising bunch of shit they just disappeared again, after probably making good two-three more people leave with their shitty attitude.

Please note how VC:MP, which had little to no involvement from the server owners, and in a way became independent of them, held out the longest.

Any involvement from the server owners has been nothing but disaster for the server ever since 2012. You want to keep this community alive and have atleast the slightest chance of reviving it, you better make damn sure they go back to hybernation and stay hybernating.

Peace.

[Nathan]

.

[Sawyer]

Hey Huntsman, long time no see old friend. I hope life's treating you well. While I partial agree with some of your sentences, I still cannot hold back to express my own opinion regarding certain statements of yours, again. 

and Teddy took over for damage control. He did all he could, and server saw so much positive change under his leadership, and it felt like players were being listened to at last. But even then, the owners were actively stopping Teddy from implementing features that the server community wanted implemented. I mean, if someone with as much patience and integrity as Teddy, just said fuck it and left , what do you expect? People get tired of being treated like irrelevant turds.

While I did respect Teddy as an individual to a certain extent and also believed, just like you, that he was the most ideal person to lead the SAMP community as a whole, he was not really the person you think he was. Gandalf has publicly stated (when they were on good terms) that Teddy had snuck his way into the management strictly for his scripting and developing capacity and not his leadership qualities or vision, as well as the absence of solid candidates for the role at the time. It is in Gandalf's honor that he actually stepped forth and admitted that fact when he really never had to.

People like you, and I am sorry to put it this way, that never really had the slightest clue of what was really going on beneath the table, and they had only met the surface, I guess considered Teddy SAMP's savior.

Teddy had formed a certain group of individuals around him during his reign, most notably MadBoi aka Devin, and gave them a pass in doing whatever they fuck they wanted to do in-game. Whether it was rulebreaking with undercover accounts or anything spineless of the kind really. This certain HQ was in a very close relationship with the biggest crime families and always favoured them in ban cases, as well as other in-game matters whether it was corrupted funding, and a wider manipulation of in-game gameplay, completely ruining the fun of others and even making them walk away by twisting facts. In short, they gave their veterans, as most of you like to call yourselves, a "do whatever the fuck you want as long as it's not too obvious" freedom pass kind of thing. That is why certain """" veterans """" here keep barking that all of the recent HQs are crap and always blame it on them. They've grown to like the privileges they used to have and started bitching since day one when they realized that the corruption is finally done. I can go further and further into this but I do not wish to name the said groups, I'm assuming most of us here have an idea, they will probably come out of their holes to bitch and mock at any remaining life here on this server anyway.

In their defense, they were very active and knew every aspect of the SAMP community at the time, so in order to balance things out they kind of shared a piece of the cake with other regulars so everyone had a fair share all around by simply making THE WEIRDEST moderator waves every three months to players that were completely random at the time. Again, I do not wish to share any sort of names, I'm sure you'd know if you were this active as you claim.


To sum this up, yes, Gandalf and Aragorn are not present and failed to keep their promises to this community on multiple cases but one thing is definitely certain; they never lied about the identity and direction this community's at, unlike MANY others surrounding the SAMP management as a whole. Let that sink in, and for once, stop taking it to the server owners, it really is overdone.

I will finally agree with Nathan once more about pretty much all he has proposed so far and my general vote about a potential leader in the future for a certain entity (SAMP or whatever) goes to him, that's if he doesn't lose his temper here and there. 

[Serifis]

[Huntsman]

Hey Huntsman, long time no see old friend. I hope life's treating you well. While I partial agree with some of your sentences, I still cannot hold back to express my own opinion regarding certain statements of yours, again. 

and Teddy took over for damage control. He did all he could, and server saw so much positive change under his leadership, and it felt like players were being listened to at last. But even then, the owners were actively stopping Teddy from implementing features that the server community wanted implemented. I mean, if someone with as much patience and integrity as Teddy, just said fuck it and left , what do you expect? People get tired of being treated like irrelevant turds.

While I did respect Teddy as an individual to a certain extent and also believed, just like you, that he was the most ideal person to lead the SAMP community as a whole, he was not really the person you think he was. Gandalf has publicly stated (when they were on good terms) that Teddy had snuck his way into the management strictly for his scripting and developing capacity and not his leadership qualities or vision, as well as the absence of solid candidates for the role at the time. It is in Gandalf's honor that he actually stepped forth and admitted that fact when he really never had to.

People like you, and I am sorry to put it this way, that never really had the slightest clue of what was really going on beneath the table, and they had only met the surface, I guess considered Teddy SAMP's savior.

Teddy had formed a certain group of individuals around him during his reign, most notably MadBoi aka Devin, and gave them a pass in doing whatever they fuck they wanted to do in-game. Whether it was rulebreaking with undercover accounts or anything spineless of the kind really. This certain HQ was in a very close relationship with the biggest crime families and always favoured them in ban cases, as well as other in-game matters whether it was corrupted funding, and a wider manipulation of in-game gameplay, completely ruining the fun of others and even making them walk away by twisting facts. In short, they gave their veterans, as most of you like to call yourselves, a "do whatever the fuck you want as long as it's not too obvious" freedom pass kind of thing. That is why certain """" veterans """" here keep barking that all of the recent HQs are crap and always blame it on them. They've grown to like the privileges they used to have and started bitching since day one when they realized that the corruption is finally done. I can go further and further into this but I do not wish to name the said groups, I'm assuming most of us here have an idea, they will probably come out of their holes to bitch and mock at any remaining life here on this server anyway.

In their defense, they were very active and knew every aspect of the SAMP community at the time, so in order to balance things out they kind of shared a piece of the cake with other regulars so everyone had a fair share all around by simply making THE WEIRDEST moderator waves every three months to players that were completely random at the time. Again, I do not wish to share any sort of names, I'm sure you'd know if you were this active as you claim.


To sum this up, yes, Gandalf and Aragorn are not present and failed to keep their promises to this community on multiple cases but one thing is definitely certain; they never lied about the identity and direction this community's at, unlike MANY others surrounding the SAMP management as a whole. Let that sink in, and for once, stop taking it to the server owners, it really is overdone.

I will finally agree with Nathan once more about pretty much all he has proposed so far and my general vote about a potential leader in the future for a certain entity (SAMP or whatever) goes to him, that's if he doesn't lose his temper here and there. 

Thanks for your reply.

Certainly, I never knew what was going on behind the curtain, that is true. I have no basis to reject your arguments at all.

Whatever went on inside though, Teddy felt like a fresh breeze of air. After a rather dictatorial leadership of the RS4 era people, it felt like people were actually being listened to at once. Can that make the other things you mentioned.. forgivable? I don't know, guess that's up for the peeps to decide. For me, I guess yes.

I wouldn't like to be grouped under the "veterans like you" label. I never really criticised the recent HQs, for one because I can't, as I haven't seen them in action directly due to having abandoned SAMP at around 2017, but from what I see, I think they actually did the best they could to control the damage inflicted by previous HQs. Unfortunately, too little too late, I guess.

Let's not forget that a large chunk of what happened can be blamed on a bunch of "veterans" who have ended up creating their own copycat community out of spite, seeing how one of them got banned and the few others have lost their power positions.

I still think that the point itself does stand though - owners are nothing but bad news and their involvement must kept to a minimum, if any, at all. They might have not lied about the direction, but I believe that this insistance on the particular direction is what killed the community. The direction was outdated, too conservative, and too change resistant. Too bad there were no people around deviant enough to deviate from it completely.

I guess in order for Argonath to have any chance in revival, it desperately needs a new direction. The "old" one has  nothing new or appealing in current day that would attract new players, and is no longer unique as it used to be. I still think that Argonath's best bet is focusing on the newer games, and FiveM to begin with .I know this hurts to hear, as we all have respective sentiments attached to SAMP, or VCMP. But these are done for. I don't think that it's possible to revive a server for games that old.

Nice for the both of us to have a civilised discussion, at last, though. 

[TheGreasyChopper]

Let's not forget that a large chunk of what happened can be blamed on a bunch of "veterans" who have ended up creating their own copycat community out of spite, seeing how one of them got banned and the few others have lost their power positions.

Argonath was founded because the founders could no longer find themselves agreeing with the happenings on another community, so they decided to create their own community which thrived to success because of the open natured, strong admin team.

And there is no point in lying to ourselves, the "open natured, strong admin team" has not been a thing for a while. JDC and Andy have the correct attitude and approach, but those before them left a mess that's very hard to clean up and fix.

You cannot blame "veterans" for doing the exact same thing that Argo was built on.

[Huntsman]

Let's not forget that a large chunk of what happened can be blamed on a bunch of "veterans" who have ended up creating their own copycat community out of spite, seeing how one of them got banned and the few others have lost their power positions.

Argonath was founded because the founders could no longer find themselves agreeing with the happenings on another community, so they decided to create their own community which thrived to success because of the open natured, strong admin team.

And there is no point in lying to ourselves, the "open natured, strong admin team" has not been a thing for a while. JDC and Andy have the correct attitude and approach, but those before them left a mess that's very hard to clean up and fix.

You cannot blame "veterans" for doing the exact same thing that Argo was built on.

It's not really the same thing. They did it for all the wrong reasons. Argonath was relatively fine when it happened. The people who did it simply could not cope with the fact they lost positions of power, and the loss was well deserved. They did it out of spite, and power hunger.

Would not be mad if the copycat was any good. However, it does not, not even remotely, match the quality of what Argonath was, and is just a cheap powergrab copycat attempt by people that are in no position to lead something like this.

The copycat is kept afloat by giving out positions and power to people that didn't deserve it in Argonath. Go figure.

[TheGreasyChopper]

Let's not forget that a large chunk of what happened can be blamed on a bunch of "veterans" who have ended up creating their own copycat community out of spite, seeing how one of them got banned and the few others have lost their power positions.

Argonath was founded because the founders could no longer find themselves agreeing with the happenings on another community, so they decided to create their own community which thrived to success because of the open natured, strong admin team.

And there is no point in lying to ourselves, the "open natured, strong admin team" has not been a thing for a while. JDC and Andy have the correct attitude and approach, but those before them left a mess that's very hard to clean up and fix.

You cannot blame "veterans" for doing the exact same thing that Argo was built on.

It's not really the same thing. They did it for all the wrong reasons. Argonath was relatively fine when it happened. The people who did it simply could not cope with the fact they lost positions of power, and the loss was well deserved. They did it out of spite, and power hunger.

Would not be mad if the copycat was any good. However, it does not, not even remotely, match the quality of what Argonath was, and is just a cheap powergrab copycat attempt by people that are in no position to lead something like this.

The copycat is kept afloat by giving out positions and power to people that didn't deserve it in Argonath. Go figure.

Sounds like issues of a different community. The moment they leave and start doing their own thing - it is not our community's problem. Leaving to do your own thing should be a right to anyone and you shouldn't bash people for doing it. There are no right or wrong reasons - everyone is free to leave whenever he or she pleases. Many people were doing their own thing, it's not just the one you're discussing. (This was not something new.)

If the copycat is not as good, why be mad about it? If you want them to change and improve - talk to them, not to us. We're trying to figure out how to get the SAMP server back on it's feet at least, these people are not a concern for us, nor a resource we should consider.

Bringing up other communities in threads like this is counter-productive and derailing. So let us focus on SAMP at the time being and help Andy and JDC figure out a way to get things back on track.

[Astaroth]

Well, I disagree with that Huntsman. It was simply an incentive, and it worked.
If people felt like they were being treated unfairly and the need to leave - they're probably right.

Passing the blame doesn't do much, but it seems like we also don't know how to take accountability or figure out a correct approach for the issue.
By the looks of it, this will be another topic that gets locked or simply dies down because of time, because since it's creation, which was a week ago, @Badandy has been the only one that communicated anything with players. I can't be the only one getting a bad impression here?

[Finney]

1. What's the reason you no longer log in?
Lots of real life obligations, I'm no longer a teenager who can play day 'n night. I think most of us can agree on that one. I log in once to twice a week though, I haven't really left.

2. What can be done to get you to log in again?
Copy the copycat.  It seems like the new generations like things scripted way more than roleplaying in third person.

[Nathan]

.