Discussion solely on the topic of how to bring back SA:MP server

[Mario_Rinna]

We do participate in conversation when there's something worthwhile to say or someone needs to be corrected when they talk out of their ass. The forums have been god awful for a long time and we know that, it's one of the things we can't just go and change as community leaders. Owners want some things a certain way.
As for editing your own posts, you should be able to as far as I know. We'll take a look.

I'm only webmaster because they have rights that leaders do not despite leaders being higher rank.. don't ask me why

The forums going down was the VM going down, which we can not fix. That requires Sauron and it was a quick response from Sauron while being hospitalized.
Some servers are hosted outside of Argonath's hosting, yes. One reason is we have more control over the host, including it's performance capabilities, storage, operating system etc. With Argonath hosting we would need to go through Sauron for that, and it is unnecessary step. When owners returned they had no issue with servers being hosted outside of Argonath.

Personally, I've always been able to have a dialog with the owners and come to compromises if things are seen differently and I've also fully went against what they've said and ultimately proven myself to be right, case in point when they refused to take VC:MP back to Argonath's hosting in 2012 so we got our own hosting solution and it's been working wonderfully for 10 years for us.

As for requested to modifying a server that we're happy with, probably ain't gonna happen. I'm fairly sure people would rather resign than go against what they've created. There's no winners if it comes to a standoff, I prefer having an open and honest conversation about the realities of the situation.

Well, if this is how things are (quite pragmatic, I think), then I do agree with you that declaring somebody an "owner" changes nothing. I guess it could help if there were more people with the experience of promoting a server, but they don't need to have an owner's rank for that.

The forums

IIRC, the forums that were on mtasa.argonathrpg.com were made by cloning these here on argonathrpg.eu, and then all the non-MTA:SA boards were deleted (so that we could keep our content that was here), and member accounts ofc deleted also, some settings were set to default, new permissions were made, and it came back to life and started working properly, search was working, etc.

There are accounts made in 2006 that haven't logged in since 2006. That's a lot of useless baggage accumulated over the years. You could make another clone, and see what could be done to fix it through trial & error.

[TheGreasyChopper]

The Carson project was a failure, and not good enough. It does not provide you full accessibility over the entire centre of RP. You expect groups that are mafia based to be in FC, and somehow keep a town like that active? Argo being set over the entire map is what it always was, FC is just a place where role-play of motorcycle clubs, and lowly gangs can take place. If, somehow the Argo playerbase was back up, let's say a 100 players. How are you gonna fit that many people in FC, and let them do their projects if the base of the server is FC instead of LS?
"Here's where you're wRONg. Carson is a small community within the community, we were just the last ones to go. We need to focus on roleplay, as it is the main way for people to interact with eachother IG."
You're wrong. You can't expect the server to be up or anything of the sort by having a small community within the community, of-course you need to focus on role-play but role-play was never the only primary reason for people to stay. It was fucking around with their friends, interacting with other groups, TDM, police pursuits etc. Argo was never a heavy-RP server that solely focuses on RP, and RP only and will have many players like a certain heavy RP server focusing on a county. FC isn't even a county, it's a small town. Argonath was never based off on that, I've been in this community since 2013, I never saw that happen.

You may not know this as you weren't around when we first moved there, but in 2015 there was no more than 2 or 3 people roleplaying there, Aksel Svensson RPing as a mayor in what now is Town Hall.
"Fucking around with friends, interacting with other groups, cophunting and TDM" were the reasons a handful of players were sick of hanging around LS and SF, so some of us relocated to Fort Carson. Mind you, back then we only had 3 or 4 active houses and 2/3 businesses in the entire area. Those of us who moved there were satisfied enough with what we had scriptwise - /l, /s, /me. After all, we were and most of us still are, here for the roleplay. Slowly but steadily we started adding more and more to the town, with the support of many players and staff.
Now a few years ago, activity started dropping. The "Fucking around with friends, interacting with other groups, cophunting and TDM" players mostly left for other servers or were banned from the community. People had no incentive to stick around LS or SF, but we still kept going in Carson. Shortly after a few events and scenarios, HQ decided to step in and take over this player lead initiative, making it into the official server hub. Needless to say, things went downhill from there 
Mafia groups worked perfectly, as back in 2010 Ancelotti had an HQ in Carson, Gvardia were involved during elections, even Trapani operated in the area for a while. Take a look at the Singleplayer campaign, let me know where the San Fierro and Los Santos mob are. If we're to talk about realism, Las Venturas is the only city/area which had a mafia presence in it's real life counterpart. 

Ever since we started it in 2015 we've had all sorts of groups and factions come by and interact in one way or another. We chased off DMers and people who did not have a RP attitude. We were not upset with Argonath or the owners, we had a problem with the mindset of certain groups of players, so we did the only logical thing - build an alternative.
Now all due respect, but before you deem something a failure, I'd expect you to atleast have tried it out. And for the love of God, I had to go through pages and pages of your forum posts, but I still have no fucking clue who you are and if, when and where did you show up. But instead of criticizing and throwing shit on the forums, just get IG and do what you want to do. Like I said before - if you want something done right, you should do it yourself. That's how Argo was built, but we prefer to stay part of the community instead of splitting off 

Would SAMP be worth it if people joined? From my quick Google search, hosted tab prices are between 30 and 35 euro. I can spend that for 6 months, till the Mta sa server comes up.

I just need help with choosing the right one. Is this a good idea?

As someone who did pay for the hosted tab for a while, I can assure you it is not worth it. Before the client died out, SA:MP had versions 0.3dl and 0.3.7. Most if not all the bigger servers moved on to 0.3dl, which I'm not able to find on https://www.sa-mp.com/. Now where the hosted tab comes in is that it only works for people who have version 0.3.7. Long-time SAMP veterans would not see us on the Hosted tab and lets be real - there are no new players in SAMP. It's a dead client. Kids nowadays move on to V, whether it's FiveM or Rage. Even if we magically had someone randomly join our server for the first time, never hearing about Argo before, I'm afraid there's nothing that's going to get them to stay. Personally last year I've met around 3 or 4 new players, showed them around, they joined the server for a few days in a row - only to disappear and never show up again. So long story short, I'd keep my money if I were you.

As for MTA, I am interested to see how it goes, but how long would it take realistically before we can play on an Argo server there? When is work going to start and are we going to get regular updates?

[Mario_Rinna]

You may not know this as you weren't around when we first moved there, but in 2015 there was no more than 2 or 3 people roleplaying there, Aksel Svensson RPing as a mayor in what now is Town Hall.
"Fucking around with friends, interacting with other groups, cophunting and TDM" were the reasons a handful of players were sick of hanging around LS and SF, so some of us relocated to Fort Carson. Mind you, back then we only had 3 or 4 active houses and 2/3 businesses in the entire area. Those of us who moved there were satisfied enough with what we had scriptwise - /l, /s, /me. After all, we were and most of us still are, here for the roleplay. Slowly but steadily we started adding more and more to the town, with the support of many players and staff.
Now a few years ago, activity started dropping. The "Fucking around with friends, interacting with other groups, cophunting and TDM" players mostly left for other servers or were banned from the community. People had no incentive to stick around LS or SF, but we still kept going in Carson. Shortly after a few events and scenarios, HQ decided to step in and take over this player lead initiative, making it into the official server hub. Needless to say, things went downhill from there 
Mafia groups worked perfectly, as back in 2010 Ancelotti had an HQ in Carson, Gvardia were involved during elections, even Trapani operated in the area for a while. Take a look at the Singleplayer campaign, let me know where the San Fierro and Los Santos mob are. If we're to talk about realism, Las Venturas is the only city/area which had a mafia presence in it's real life counterpart. 

Ever since we started it in 2015 we've had all sorts of groups and factions come by and interact in one way or another. We chased off DMers and people who did not have a RP attitude. We were not upset with Argonath or the owners, we had a problem with the mindset of certain groups of players, so we did the only logical thing - build an alternative.
Now all due respect, but before you deem something a failure, I'd expect you to atleast have tried it out. And for the love of God, I had to go through pages and pages of your forum posts, but I still have no fucking clue who you are and if, when and where did you show up. But instead of criticizing and throwing shit on the forums, just get IG and do what you want to do. Like I said before - if you want something done right, you should do it yourself. That's how Argo was built, but we prefer to stay part of the community instead of splitting off 

When I think about it, it sounds like something that could fit well into RedM, the "FiveM" for RDR2.

That setting would fit Argonath's style of RP (and DM disguised as RP ).

[Brian]

@Mario
Sorry for the permission edit issue, I recently changed something for a certain board but it decided to change the permission for the entire forums, you should be able to edit your post again.

As for the forums, I've been a webmaster here for almost 10 years now and I've barely gotten any access to actually manage or maintain the forums (until recently but even that access is limited in regards to actually ensuring we can provide web uptime)
If the VM or host goes down only the owners have the ability to turn it back on, there's been a couple people that have had access to do so over the years but the owners tend to want to keep access to themselves only. It's the same with the game VMs which is why some of us have decided to arrange our own hosting so that we can ensure uptime for our players (and actually restart, update and maintain the VMs)

As for the owners and their opinion on things, I'd highly recommend reading through the "a dialogue with the owners" topic of when they reappeared for a while a year and a half ago. CLs tried to take some of the conversations publicly so the community is more aware of things are ran and going in the back-end, as well as get the owners opinions, as well as ours. And just as a FYI, we've not seen or heard from them since then. (outside of us reaching out to them to resolve some VM issues)
They've also shared that they no longer have any personal interest in SAMP and that we are free to make the changes we feel would be good for the server.

And another interesting note, while you are correct in saying that the owners created this community, and did run a successful server for a while, that was almost 10 years ago. The forum topic I linked was the first time myself and many people saw Aragorn. And for many of the current players, it was also their first time seeing Gandalf. While I'll always have respect for them for providing us with this community, and providing us with hosting. For many people the owners are just people filling a role, they're not aware of what kind of people they are or what their vision is, and we're also to remember that vision was made in/ around 2006.
And while I've no plans or interest in a coup d'état, I do see parts of Argonath fall in line with a thought experiment called "ship of Theseus", almost everything you see or play on within modern Argonath was done by other people or was guided by people that aren't the owners.

@Cutt3r
I also have to agree with TheGreasyChopper in regards to the hosted tab, I personally have not had any good experiences with it, especially in more recent years it tends to cause a lot of people that have ill intentions to join the server and mess around. And of those that are just looking for a server to play on, a majority sticks around for under 30 minutes or do not have the ability (or lack of interest) to try and communicate/ play with other players.
The way the hosted tab system was made also makes it a scam (in my opinion) as its very limited on who can sell/ assign hosted tab slots and they upcharge significantly for what you actually get out of it.
If you do want to help out monetarily we've been discussing some future plans internally that I'd be more than happy to inform you about to see if any of that is of any interest to you.

[Hammer_]

The Carson project was a failure, and not good enough. It does not provide you full accessibility over the entire centre of RP. You expect groups that are mafia based to be in FC, and somehow keep a town like that active? Argo being set over the entire map is what it always was, FC is just a place where role-play of motorcycle clubs, and lowly gangs can take place. If, somehow the Argo playerbase was back up, let's say a 100 players. How are you gonna fit that many people in FC, and let them do their projects if the base of the server is FC instead of LS?
"Here's where you're wRONg. Carson is a small community within the community, we were just the last ones to go. We need to focus on roleplay, as it is the main way for people to interact with eachother IG."
You're wrong. You can't expect the server to be up or anything of the sort by having a small community within the community, of-course you need to focus on role-play but role-play was never the only primary reason for people to stay. It was fucking around with their friends, interacting with other groups, TDM, police pursuits etc. Argo was never a heavy-RP server that solely focuses on RP, and RP only and will have many players like a certain heavy RP server focusing on a county. FC isn't even a county, it's a small town. Argonath was never based off on that, I've been in this community since 2013, I never saw that happen.

You may not know this as you weren't around when we first moved there, but in 2015 there was no more than 2 or 3 people roleplaying there, Aksel Svensson RPing as a mayor in what now is Town Hall.
"Fucking around with friends, interacting with other groups, cophunting and TDM" were the reasons a handful of players were sick of hanging around LS and SF, so some of us relocated to Fort Carson. Mind you, back then we only had 3 or 4 active houses and 2/3 businesses in the entire area. Those of us who moved there were satisfied enough with what we had scriptwise - /l, /s, /me. After all, we were and most of us still are, here for the roleplay. Slowly but steadily we started adding more and more to the town, with the support of many players and staff.
Now a few years ago, activity started dropping. The "Fucking around with friends, interacting with other groups, cophunting and TDM" players mostly left for other servers or were banned from the community. People had no incentive to stick around LS or SF, but we still kept going in Carson. Shortly after a few events and scenarios, HQ decided to step in and take over this player lead initiative, making it into the official server hub. Needless to say, things went downhill from there 
Mafia groups worked perfectly, as back in 2010 Ancelotti had an HQ in Carson, Gvardia were involved during elections, even Trapani operated in the area for a while. Take a look at the Singleplayer campaign, let me know where the San Fierro and Los Santos mob are. If we're to talk about realism, Las Venturas is the only city/area which had a mafia presence in it's real life counterpart. 

Ever since we started it in 2015 we've had all sorts of groups and factions come by and interact in one way or another. We chased off DMers and people who did not have a RP attitude. We were not upset with Argonath or the owners, we had a problem with the mindset of certain groups of players, so we did the only logical thing - build an alternative.
Now all due respect, but before you deem something a failure, I'd expect you to atleast have tried it out. And for the love of God, I had to go through pages and pages of your forum posts, but I still have no fucking clue who you are and if, when and where did you show up. But instead of criticizing and throwing shit on the forums, just get IG and do what you want to do. Like I said before - if you want something done right, you should do it yourself. That's how Argo was built, but we prefer to stay part of the community instead of splitting off 

I was never well known as I never interacted with others, however in my time there I was known as Marcus_Corleonesi, Palat, Ricky Trapani, Ricky Soprano, etc. I did try out the Carson project, problem here is, you're getting too defensive. Perhaps rightfully so, since it's your idea. I tried out the FC project, and that's how I gave my judgement. You mentioning FC was a way to get out of that cophunt, Trapani did activities around that area(I lead those), you're right. Thing is though, FC should've never been the permanent change. It opens up the door to a lot of opportunities, but having only operated under one small area closes the door to many other opportunities too. Perhaps, if the centre of focus was the whole of BC instead of just FC, that'd have still worked too. I quit Argo long ago, and I'm gonna be honest, it's a waste of time unless there are atleast a few people active. Being active all alone in-game, hoping for people to show up is dumb. So many people on these forums comment, if those were in game, that's another thing as well.

[Khm]

The Carson project was a failure, and not good enough. It does not provide you full accessibility over the entire centre of RP. You expect groups that are mafia based to be in FC, and somehow keep a town like that active? Argo being set over the entire map is what it always was, FC is just a place where role-play of motorcycle clubs, and lowly gangs can take place. If, somehow the Argo playerbase was back up, let's say a 100 players. How are you gonna fit that many people in FC, and let them do their projects if the base of the server is FC instead of LS?
"Here's where you're wRONg. Carson is a small community within the community, we were just the last ones to go. We need to focus on roleplay, as it is the main way for people to interact with eachother IG."
You're wrong. You can't expect the server to be up or anything of the sort by having a small community within the community, of-course you need to focus on role-play but role-play was never the only primary reason for people to stay. It was fucking around with their friends, interacting with other groups, TDM, police pursuits etc. Argo was never a heavy-RP server that solely focuses on RP, and RP only and will have many players like a certain heavy RP server focusing on a county. FC isn't even a county, it's a small town. Argonath was never based off on that, I've been in this community since 2013, I never saw that happen.

This is absolutely wrong.
Fort Carson is originally ran by biker and redneck groups (with Trapani mafia operating there for some time too). The nagging from the inactive "veterans" was ridiculous at that time as they were complaining about the activity that dropped drastically due to mass leaves few years prior to that so HQ decided at that time to jump in with the current active players and fully support their activity therr providing them with what was possible to give at that time, slowly activity started to increase, hell even the hybrid server reset had good results of increasing the player activity and raising the bar in terms of roleplay style.

Slowly we topped 50 players daily at that time and we expanded to nearby towns like blueberry, EQ etc but it was expected that this won't stay as new typical mafia groups that failed to integrate with the concept of living in the desert (realistically mafias don't exist in the desert) kept on appearing with the same old dmish style that solely focuses on kidnapping and killing people as well as growing and stealing weed, with some fights against cops here and there they kept on pushing to bring back the old style of purposely creating issues everyday to have a gun fight and ragequit after losing. To fight that off, civilian activities were heavily pushed, benefits to farming, fishing, player to player sales, restaurants, bars, news stations (SanTV). I even over sold items to businesses in cheap prices that had put me in a loss of money just to promote this style of rp. I intentionally made weapons overpriced in the ammunations there to make people think twice before buying weapons, i ended up earing over a million in a short time period  sadly it's not easy to change the mindset of players, especially those that were used to the old style of DM RP that we used to have in RS4.

Other factors like self entitled players calling themselves veterans had their share in intoxicating the environment, ban list is currently full of them namely Kikita, Waka, Lincoln, Zlatan Kazuki Pedro Bogomil Magzin and the list doesn't fucking end, most were well known players that just pop in to cause havoc and go and the moment they leave all players that stayed online when they leave share the same mutual displeasure with such activities but we still stood with a good playerbase that were more like a family, hackers and ban evaders were less of a hassle and even players themselves made hackers into new players with the way they approach them.. until the massive ddos attack that took the server offline for 2 months. Honestly at that time I personally gave up, i did not have the leasure of time to repeat the same thing we did again, and even if I'd repeat the same thing, I was not confident that we will reach the same results again so I stepped out of the picture publicly and stayed helping in the back with the technical stuff.

JDC then came alongside Badandy and Chase from the dark corner of backend, community leaders namely Kessu and Brian were in the picture, as well as the staff team which is to me is heavily credited, they helped with what they could although they had much less powers and influence but they were also the players and the players' friends. They succeeded in bringing the server back on its feet and the activity reached to 30 tops with a lot of fun activities that only came from roleplays that made me crawl out of my cave when I had some freetime.

To me they were successful, no matter how negative you want to be but the results speak for themselves, the challenges that the server had over the past years (after the 2015-2016 HQ fuck up that ended with Brian and Bengt retiring and leaving with bad tastes and the followed years of joke leaderships) other servers that faced easier and simpler issues completely shut down but we stayed online just for the sake of playing GTA SA and enjoying a good time with friends. You would be insulting and discrediting players like Greasy, Tom Evans and Adams, KJones, Terro, Mike Collin, JWick, Mircea, Arthur Kings, Mac, Serban, Megamidget, Stalker, Kostas, Aky, Hubert, Sierra, Gruia, Meeses, Leo Martinez, the whole staff team and the list goes on and thankfully is longer than the troublemakers list, you would be insulting these people's efforts and success if you call it a failure.

In ny opinion we should be proud and happy of the experiences that we had together no matter the differences we have towards eachother, we should remember these good times instead of trying to find other excuses for the drop of activity or even saying something as lame as RS4 was better, something most people forgot or don't know during the last days of RS4 the server was nearly empty, with activity of 40 players daily 80% of them being afk and the other 20% fighting eachother, so the decrease of activity dates back to 2013. People stopped playing because they are no longer interested and have other priorities there's no other reason or excuse, why they lost interest in the first place you say?  Well it's human nature to want change and to want to find the next fun thing to waste time on.

[Nathan]

.

[Sawyer]

Just a proposal - how about a “Fort Carson”-like approach with the areas being switched out every couple of months or so. Go from Fort Carson to Montgomery/Bayside. Localize it to a single area and perhaps limit that other areas by intentionally closing borders or even turning off access to government properties.

This is a must imo.

Appoint the appropriate people that are willing to work on that specific project to take some weight off JDC's shoulders. Nothing can really go worse than the current state in my eyes.

[Hammer_]

The Carson project was a failure, and not good enough. It does not provide you full accessibility over the entire centre of RP. You expect groups that are mafia based to be in FC, and somehow keep a town like that active? Argo being set over the entire map is what it always was, FC is just a place where role-play of motorcycle clubs, and lowly gangs can take place. If, somehow the Argo playerbase was back up, let's say a 100 players. How are you gonna fit that many people in FC, and let them do their projects if the base of the server is FC instead of LS?
"Here's where you're wRONg. Carson is a small community within the community, we were just the last ones to go. We need to focus on roleplay, as it is the main way for people to interact with eachother IG."
You're wrong. You can't expect the server to be up or anything of the sort by having a small community within the community, of-course you need to focus on role-play but role-play was never the only primary reason for people to stay. It was fucking around with their friends, interacting with other groups, TDM, police pursuits etc. Argo was never a heavy-RP server that solely focuses on RP, and RP only and will have many players like a certain heavy RP server focusing on a county. FC isn't even a county, it's a small town. Argonath was never based off on that, I've been in this community since 2013, I never saw that happen.

This is absolutely wrong.
Fort Carson is originally ran by biker and redneck groups (with Trapani mafia operating there for some time too).

Trapani was active there, yes but only for a short period of time as it's unrealistic as you mentioned above for mafias to exist. I'm not calling anyone's efforts, ideas, etc. a failure. I'm in no place to do that, I've loved Argonath. This server, the nostalgia it brings, it's something else. Having it back active, it'd be something close to a dream coming true. I've never blamed any HQ member, staff-team, etc. even if it was a joke of a leadership. The one guy I've always had an agenda against was Andeey, he was bullshit. That's the only guy I've hated in my period of time in Argonath.

[TheGreasyChopper]

 To elaborate on why small town(regardless of Carson or Angel Pine or Palomino) is the only logical setting for our current state - the amount of active people. We all know eachother one way or another, forums, discord, IG, common groups. While Argonath previously had hundreds of active players, currently I doubt we have even 50ish active members across the community(forums, discord, different servers). Focusing on a big city like LS, LV or SF gives us a large area. Some of us prefer hanging out in Rodeo, while the others would hang out at GS9, which gives no opportunities for interactions and common activities.

(Gonna go offtopic related to MTA:SA, it was mostly focused in San Fierro, which created an awesome atmosphere, and it worked out. That didn't stop some jobs and missions leading you to Angel Pine or Bayside, it was awesome. I would very much like to state that focusing on SF once again might be one of my conditions on hopping on the MTA:SA train whenever it arrives  )

 Closing down in a small town gives us all needed facilities(town hall, PD, FD, Hospital, Gas Station) close to eachother, and close to available businesses, furthermore increasing the chances of bumping into someone else while doing your own stuff. I cannot think of a feature, aside from maybe money laundry, that is not present in Carson or Bone County in one way or another. Now a few of you asked "Why not make it Bone County instead of just Carson?", well this just further shows your ignorance on the topic. We call it the Carson Project, simply because that's our hub - that's where things happen. In reality, we had Trapani up at Las Payasadas, we've had numerous groups take up at the Big Ear, AoD have mostly operated out of the Abandoned Airport. On the other hand, noone ever forced you to stay in Carson, no businesses were sold off or deactivated for not being in Carson. FLA had a period of awesome activity IG, most of it in Flint. We just highlight the hub by focusing on Carson. The same thing was also attempted in Angel Pine for a brief time, and people were pretty positive about it.

 Before you suggest any ideas that will be the savior of SAMP, consider that it should be an improvement of what we currently have, not something brand new. That never helps. Improve on what we already have, do not start anew. A good example, that sadly was only on the planning table, was the idea of Bayside becoming a resort(I believe Arthur was the face of that idea). We supported that idea as much as we could, that would've given us another hub to expand to and perhaps switch focus on weekends(to address that one idea of switching focuses around), as we had some increasing numbers of players. What we all expect here is for HQ to dictate what you should do. STOP THAT. If your idea requires approvals and support, re-think it. Suggest things that you can hop In Game and start doing. That is why I opposed any walls and barricades around Carson. But let things evolve naturally, join in and expand on the COMMUNITY.

 Now I would like to return to the main post in hopes of steering things back in the initial topic. Some of us hop in IG every now and then, go ahead and join us, start working on one of those listed groups/people that we need. We're a small town in Carson, we do not need a SWAT Team, Detective Division and FBI HQ. We currently need a Sheriff to call the shots for PD and 2-5 deputies to enforce the law. Think of roles that would benefit and work out in a small group of people. And for the love of God, read up on how the American LCN operates. "A mafia doesn't work well in a small town" is the biggest pile of shit I've recently heard. Read up on the history of Las Vegas, it was the Mafia that turned it from a town smaller than Carson to what it is today. You can do the same. We saw no issues while working on the brief Ancelotti revival, Gvardia had no issues coming out and RPing with us throughout the years. Perhaps the location isn't the reason why your "mafia" isn't working out

[Cutt3r]

Change starts with us. Individually.

We are at a stage where we are literally starting afresh. One change we need to make is to forgive old friends who had multiple concussions and had a vocal opinion which was seen as wrong.

Concussions heal. People change, over time. The other day, one of those mentioned by Khm above logged in, created no trouble. He just spoke, based on my questions. No toxicity. Maybe he matured over time. We engaged each other very respectfully.

We are a dysfunctional family. Even in RL we have people who we wish didn't exist. Yet, they are integral to the family, we forgive them and move on. Argo is the family online for some of us, that's why we are still here and some of us come back to say hello once in a while.

Can we find it in ourselves to review community bans when the time comes?

[Huntsman]

A lot of what is suggested is patchwork. Things that were tried to an extent before, and did not work. I can say on my own view: localising the server into one of the smaller towns would not make me come back. would rather put me off from joining instead.

I think that in general for Argonath to be revived there has to be a change in ownership. New, prominent, and progressive leaders need to rise up. Leaders, and their presence, was in part what kept the SAMP server active for all these years. New leaders who'd give a sense of direction, and hope for the players.

But the biggest factor is us - we just need to shut up and get back to playing. We can talk what needs to be done until we turn blue but the fact is that no-one is willing to do shit on their part. Just get into the server, just play. I think the issue here is that most people just don't want to play anymore. It's a decade old game almost. It has gotten boring. Most of us no-lifed the shit out of it in our teen years. It feel antiquated by now.

I still insist that Argonath moving on to GTA V and focusing all of its efforts and resources there is the way forward. It's new, it's flexible, it has an active playerbase. If we all would just stick to playing one, most recent server instead, we could then have some hope of revival. But this won't happen, because people are not willing to lose the positions they hold in the antiquated games .

Sorry, but my outlook does remain grim.

[Mario_Rinna]

you should be able to edit your post again.

Thanks, it works again.

If the VM or host goes down only the owners have the ability to turn it back on, there's been a couple people that have had access to do so over the years but the owners tend to want to keep access to themselves only.

Yeah, there was a thing like that, AFAIK, but it stopped working after a while.

They've also shared that they no longer have any personal interest in SAMP

Yeah, that one is kind of easy to see.

and that we are free to make the changes we feel would be good for the server.

Understandable, given the above.

And another interesting note, while you are correct in saying that the owners created this community, and did run a successful server for a while, that was almost 10 years ago. The forum topic I linked was the first time myself and many people saw Aragorn. And for many of the current players, it was also their first time seeing Gandalf. While I'll always have respect for them for providing us with this community, and providing us with hosting. For many people the owners are just people filling a role,

The more players there are, the more conflicts there are. When the server was popular, and not the complete opposite, you could rely on the owners to be fair arbitrators, and even though you wouldn't always get what you want, most conflicts were resolved amicably. Of course, this is not a particularly desired commodity right now, since everything "shrunk."

The understanding of when and where to support RP-makers directly or indirectly and how – still not developed here to the extent of that time. If a pseudorealistic economy ("wE dOn'T sPaWn aNy MoNeY"), with its pseudorealism unfitting the rest of the server, gets in the way of RP, that's a gameover. Yet many "experts" claimed the financial system of RS4 was broken, completely ignoring that it allowed to RP things which were never RP'ed after RS4.

they're not aware of what kind of people they are or what their vision is, and we're also to remember that vision was made in/ around 2006.

After a couple of highly enlightened Argonath patriots started running around with that 2006 topic (highly outdated and completely irrelevant) as if it were the holy gospel, it became an inside joke. That's all it is and all it should be in 2022.

And while I've no plans or interest in a coup d'état,

...or the ability – would declaring oneself the owner give legal possession of anything or provide access to it?

I do see parts of Argonath fall in line with a thought experiment called "ship of Theseus", almost everything you see or play on within modern Argonath was done by other people or was guided by people that aren't the owners.

I assume that you do not include HQ in its entirety as part of the ship. If you do include it, then some parts are missing and were not replaced. If you do not include the crew, so to speak, it seems an incomplete comparison.

Slowly we topped 50 players daily

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

In ny opinion we should be proud and happy of the experiences that we had together no matter the differences we have towards eachother, we should remember these good times

I agree, the ship—whether it was a ship of Theseus or not—has sailed, and it is time to move forward.

or even saying something as lame as RS4 was better,

You can compare things to RS4, but you need to remember it's an unfair comparison when you're comparing present-day scripts to some old creation that hasn't been worked on for a decade or so.

Focusing on a big city like LS, LV or SF gives us a large area. Some of us prefer hanging out in Rodeo, while the others would hang out at GS9, which gives no opportunities for interactions and common activities.

It doesn't have to be a small town, but it doesn't have to be a complete city either. You could focus on any specific area of LS, LV or SF, who's stopping you?

(Gonna go offtopic related to MTA:SA, it was mostly focused in San Fierro, which created an awesome atmosphere, and it worked out. That didn't stop some jobs and missions leading you to Angel Pine or Bayside, it was awesome. I would very much like to state that focusing on SF once again might be one of my conditions on hopping on the MTA:SA train whenever it arrives  )

SF has problematic terrain, all the hills, the angled buildings, etc. Barely any areas suitable for gangs, the less wealthy, the homeless, etc., None of the issues you have in most of LS. As for LV, half of it is the airport, the other half is half-empty. And the non-empty half of the non-airport half is filled with a lot of filler, copypasted content.

3 different teams of R* artists were in charge of LS, SF, and LV. The team that made LS was the most competent one, and the one that made LV the least competent one.

[Hammer_]

I still insist that Argonath moving on to GTA V and focusing all of its efforts and resources there is the way forward. It's new, it's flexible, it has an active playerbase. If we all would just stick to playing one, most recent server instead, we could then have some hope of revival. But this won't happen, because people are not willing to lose the positions they hold in the antiquated games .

Sorry, but my outlook does remain grim.

What I've been saying ^ for the past few days, focusing on GTA V, and heavily advertising that server + completely focusing on it, with a good leadership would be a step ahead. Whenever the topic is about V:MP, I'm letting SA:MP take a hike because that's the future, and if I was asked to choose between MTA:SA/SA:MP, and V:MP, I'd choose V:MP simply because that's where we're supposed to make new memories.

[TheGreasyChopper]

I'm letting SA:MP take a hike because that's the future, and if I was asked to choose between MTA:SA/SA:MP, and V:MP, I'd choose V:MP

Why make a topic on how to bring back SA:MP server then? 

A lot of what is suggested is patchwork. Things that were tried to an extent before, and did not work. I can say on my own view: localising the server into one of the smaller towns would not make me come back. would rather put me off from joining instead.

I think that in general for Argonath to be revived there has to be a change in ownership. New, prominent, and progressive leaders need to rise up. Leaders, and their presence, was in part what kept the SAMP server active for all these years. New leaders who'd give a sense of direction, and hope for the players.

But the biggest factor is us - we just need to shut up and get back to playing. We can talk what needs to be done until we turn blue but the fact is that no-one is willing to do shit on their part. Just get into the server, just play. I think the issue here is that most people just don't want to play anymore. It's a decade old game almost. It has gotten boring. Most of us no-lifed the shit out of it in our teen years. It feel antiquated by now.

I still insist that Argonath moving on to GTA V and focusing all of its efforts and resources there is the way forward. It's new, it's flexible, it has an active playerbase. If we all would just stick to playing one, most recent server instead, we could then have some hope of revival. But this won't happen, because people are not willing to lose the positions they hold in the antiquated games .

Sorry, but my outlook does remain grim.

having abandoned SAMP at around 2017

I know this hurts to hear, as we all have respective sentiments attached to SAMP, or VCMP. But these are done for. I don't think that it's possible to revive a server for games that old.