Discussion solely on the topic of how to bring back SA:MP server

[Hammer_]

I'm letting SA:MP take a hike because that's the future, and if I was asked to choose between MTA:SA/SA:MP, and V:MP, I'd choose V:MP

Why make a topic on how to bring back SA:MP server then? 

Dear Mr. Greasy, the only reason why I made a topic on how to bring SA:MP back was because I love the Argo SA:MP community, and I'd like to see it back. However, I'm not gonna let nostalgia cloud my judgement hence why I said, if Argonath was to focus on either V:MP, or SA:MP as it's primary project, I'd want them to focus completely, and fully on V:MP as that's the future, even if it's over SA:MP. SA:MP, or MTA:SA can't be our primary project, hell no. I mean, if you wanna bring this community down and don't wanna establish a good-base in a client that's growing day by day(FiveM), then by all means, go through it and let MTA, or SA:MP be primary.

[Badandy]

The FiveM server is probably the primary focus of the community and has a team working on it. Personally, my primary focus as a developer is the MTA SA server just because I like it.

[Mario_Rinna]

Dear Mr. Greasy, the only reason why I made a topic on how to bring SA:MP back was because I love the Argo SA:MP community, and I'd like to see it back. However, I'm not gonna let nostalgia cloud my judgement hence why I said, if Argonath was to focus on either V:MP, or SA:MP as it's primary project, I'd want them to focus completely, and fully on V:MP as that's the future, even if it's over SA:MP. SA:MP, or MTA:SA can't be our primary project, hell no. I mean, if you wanna bring this community down and don't wanna establish a good-base in a client that's growing day by day(FiveM), then by all means, go through it and let MTA, or SA:MP be primary.

You say that older games are stale, and FiveM is the future, and yet some of us have already clocked in hundreds, if not thousands of hours in V throughout '13-'22; the game's a decade old next year. Future of what? It's not even close to new and fresh; in fact, some of us are so tired of it already that older games are starting to look more interesting again.

[Brian]

Change starts with us. Individually.

We are at a stage where we are literally starting afresh. One change we need to make is to forgive old friends who had multiple concussions and had a vocal opinion which was seen as wrong.

Concussions heal. People change, over time. The other day, one of those mentioned by Khm above logged in, created no trouble. He just spoke, based on my questions. No toxicity. Maybe he matured over time. We engaged each other very respectfully.

We are a dysfunctional family. Even in RL we have people who we wish didn't exist. Yet, they are integral to the family, we forgive them and move on. Argo is the family online for some of us, that's why we are still here and some of us come back to say hello once in a while.

Can we find it in ourselves to review community bans when the time comes?

We regularly review community bans when the people that are banned reach out to us (Or one of their friends if they don't have any means to reach out themselves). We've also lifted several community bans over the years. And as you know community bans are reserved for only the most severe offenders as it blocks access to the entire community.

Just because someone doesn't act out in front of you doesn't mean they don't present bad behavior on the server. I personally got along with a lot of ban evaders and we often had long and in-depth conversations and some were even my friends outside of the server.
But in the end they've broken the servers rules and its up to them to prove to us that they've changed and won't continue with the same behavior that got them removed in the first place. (and if they're community banned they likely performed some sort of malicious attack to the server or community)

There's currently also zero community bans for having a concussion or vocal opinion(I checked) and under current leadership no one would be banned for speaking out so long they are respectful and constructive. And even if they would not meet those criteria, people that break the rules would be warned and punished in less severe ways before a ban would be applied and we would also never apply a community ban unless someones behavior would affect the wider community.


@Huntsman / Hammer

Just like you, our administrative staff and developers have free choice and they'll decide themselves which servers on the community they want to work or play on, we'll never force them to work on another project just because we like that project better ourselves. FiveM has several developers already and if anyone else is interested in working on the server they can reach out to the servers management.

I personally am also very excited for the Argonath Five:M server and you would be wise to remember the fact that this is a community and not just one server and that we're also not competing with ourselves, MTA:SA can exist along side of Five:M, just like SAMP existed along VC, MTA:SA, Stunt and IV at one point, as well as a wide variety of other game servers.

I'd also like to remind you both to have a look at the title of this topic, no one is forcing you to play on SA or respond to these topics with the same response over and over again. I also have a lot less fun on SA:MP than I used to but that doesn't change the fact I am deeply excited for MTA:SA or that there's still people that'd happily continue playing on SAMP once some of the issues we're currently struggling with are resolved.

[Stefos]

I'm letting SA:MP take a hike because that's the future, and if I was asked to choose between MTA:SA/SA:MP, and V:MP, I'd choose V:MP

Why make a topic on how to bring back SA:MP server then? 

Dear Mr. Greasy, the only reason why I made a topic on how to bring SA:MP back was because I love the Argo SA:MP community, and I'd like to see it back. However, I'm not gonna let nostalgia cloud my judgement hence why I said, if Argonath was to focus on either V:MP, or SA:MP as it's primary project, I'd want them to focus completely, and fully on V:MP as that's the future, even if it's over SA:MP. SA:MP, or MTA:SA can't be our primary project, hell no. I mean, if you wanna bring this community down and don't wanna establish a good-base in a client that's growing day by day(FiveM), then by all means, go through it and let MTA, or SA:MP be primary.

Why did you make this topic if all you're going to do is keep saying that SA:MP is dead and try to go against anyone that is willing to give SA a shot?

SA:MP is not a "dead" mod, neither is MTA:SA. There's people here that are still excited for such games. I'm sure that the server will be back in track even if it doesn't last long enough, as soon as they join and get hit with the nostalgia.
 
V:MP can and will be the future yes, since it's a relatively newer game and it has more options script-wise.

For everyone that continues to argue that the community is dying due to lack of owners, do you really want the owners to come back?
We have active Community Leaders, they can easily get in contact with the owners in emergencies, isn't that enough?
Brian and Kessu are always available if anyone needs them.
Owners keep saying that they'll do a comeback, we're used to it, nothing's happening. Why don't we get over it.

People keep blaming it on others cause they can't take the blame themselves.
Maybe if all these people stopped moaning about random stuff and actually played, we'd be an active community.


Also, I don't understand why everyone keeps blaming the Carson project. The Fort Carson Project was not in any way forcing anyone to stay in Carson. You were free to do whatever you wanted, you were encouraged to stay in Carson due to the fact that Carson was relatively smaller than any other city/county, and the interaction with other players was more common. It was a way to bring people together to RP.

There were plenty of SAMPers around during JDC's elections, including those who are supposedly "gone". The reason that was, is that the server itself had a purpose that everyone was able to either follow or simply go against it(in-game wise). We had two experienced candidates (Greasy and myself) that actually provided a lot of opportunity and I loved how everyone in-game played their own part in having a busy server.

Regarding this, Saywer, I wanted to ask you. You said that even if Greasy won the elections, you and the rest of your election party would return as Dentico.
Greasy won, no sign of you.. What happened?

That made me come to the conclusion that people only stick to the server as long as they got what they want. And this has been proven a lot of times over the years tbh.
So what is everyone actually interested in seeing? We're a community afterall, we fight, we become friends again, we're a virtual family.
Let's help each other out. What is your opinion on Argonath? How would you react to an attempt at revival again? If it fails, fuck it, we tried, we move on.

[Hammer_]

Dear Mr. Greasy, the only reason why I made a topic on how to bring SA:MP back was because I love the Argo SA:MP community, and I'd like to see it back. However, I'm not gonna let nostalgia cloud my judgement hence why I said, if Argonath was to focus on either V:MP, or SA:MP as it's primary project, I'd want them to focus completely, and fully on V:MP as that's the future, even if it's over SA:MP. SA:MP, or MTA:SA can't be our primary project, hell no. I mean, if you wanna bring this community down and don't wanna establish a good-base in a client that's growing day by day(FiveM), then by all means, go through it and let MTA, or SA:MP be primary.

You say that older games are stale, and FiveM is the future, and yet some of us have already clocked in hundreds, if not thousands of hours in V throughout '13-'22; the game's a decade old next year. Future of what? It's not even close to new and fresh; in fact, some of us are so tired of it already that older games are starting to look more interesting again.

@Huntsman / Hammer

Just like you, our administrative staff and developers have free choice and they'll decide themselves which servers on the community they want to work or play on, we'll never force them to work on another project just because we like that project better ourselves. FiveM has several developers already and if anyone else is interested in working on the server they can reach out to the servers management.

I personally am also very excited for the Argonath Five:M server and you would be wise to remember the fact that this is a community and not just one server and that we're also not competing with ourselves, MTA:SA can exist along side of Five:M, just like SAMP existed along VC, MTA:SA, Stunt and IV at one point, as well as a wide variety of other game servers.

I'd also like to remind you both to have a look at the title of this topic, no one is forcing you to play on SA or respond to these topics with the same response over and over again. I also have a lot less fun on SA:MP than I used to but that doesn't change the fact I am deeply excited for MTA:SA or that there's still people that'd happily continue playing on SAMP once some of the issues we're currently struggling with are resolved.

There is in no way any competition, nor am I asking anyone to compete. I can’t program, hence I can do nothing to contribute but I always wanted to. I want the SA:MP playerbase to come back, I want to try the new MTA:SA server, it’s all Argonath in general. A community we love, and cherish. I want SA:MP to be brought back, but what I meant was that I wouldn’t want all the focus to be on SA:MP when we have an opportunity to grow more and more in FiveM, and restore our precious community back. This was the first RP server I ever played, I learnt a lot, I swear. I have memories, people don’t remember me since I wasn’t one of the popular ones, one could call me a noob who’d disappear behind the shadows. Someone nobody knew. MTA SA, SA:MP, FiveM, these servers can co-exist, and I’d be really happy if somehow the SA:MP server was restored. It’s one of my wishes to bring back Argo SA:MP, however what I meant was(saying it again), not at the cost of future of Argo. That’s all. @Brian

[Hammer_]

Dear Mr. Greasy, the only reason why I made a topic on how to bring SA:MP back was because I love the Argo SA:MP community, and I'd like to see it back. However, I'm not gonna let nostalgia cloud my judgement hence why I said, if Argonath was to focus on either V:MP, or SA:MP as it's primary project, I'd want them to focus completely, and fully on V:MP as that's the future, even if it's over SA:MP. SA:MP, or MTA:SA can't be our primary project, hell no. I mean, if you wanna bring this community down and don't wanna establish a good-base in a client that's growing day by day(FiveM), then by all means, go through it and let MTA, or SA:MP be primary.

You say that older games are stale, and FiveM is the future, and yet some of us have already clocked in hundreds, if not thousands of hours in V throughout '13-'22; the game's a decade old next year. Future of what? It's not even close to new and fresh; in fact, some of us are so tired of it already that older games are starting to look more interesting again.

Older games aren’t stale, but if you look at the playerbase that’s growinf rapidly on a daily basis in V:MP, and if you look at how SA:MP is slowly dying(it’s not a dead mod, no). I personally prefer SA:MP over everything, it’s genuinely the perfect game mod. I love V:MP, I love SA:MP as well which is why I’d like to see it back active with a stable playerbase. I’d like to try the MTA server too when it releases. Also, V may not be new but you can’t deny the fact that the player count keeps rising in V:MP, despite it being a decade old.

[Nathan]

.

[Brian]

There is in no way any competition, nor am I asking anyone to compete. I can’t program, hence I can do nothing to contribute but I always wanted to. I want the SA:MP playerbase to come back, I want to try the new MTA:SA server, it’s all Argonath in general. A community we love, and cherish. I want SA:MP to be brought back, but what I meant was that I wouldn’t want all the focus to be on SA:MP when we have an opportunity to grow more and more in FiveM, and restore our precious community back. This was the first RP server I ever played, I learnt a lot, I swear. I have memories, people don’t remember me since I wasn’t one of the popular ones, one could call me a noob who’d disappear behind the shadows. Someone nobody knew. MTA SA, SA:MP, FiveM, these servers can co-exist, and I’d be really happy if somehow the SA:MP server was restored. It’s one of my wishes to bring back Argo SA:MP, however what I meant was(saying it again), not at the cost of future of Argo. That’s all. @Brian

But not all the focus is on SAMP, you created this topic yourself with it being aimed solely at the SAMP server yet you then say that SAMP shouldn't be our primary project, even though no one claimed it was. FiveM has people working on it, just like there's people working on VC, GTA III, Minecraft. People will work on what they enjoy and on what they think they'd be good at and fit in well.
And just a FYI, as a community leader I assist all parts of the community and Badandy will also still be helping out with the FiveM server, he just wants his main focus to be MTA:SA.

You are the one that caused this divide between SA and GTA V by thinking there's a "primary" server in the topic you created to focus on SA and you assumed things that are not correct. Neither one server is better than the other, people play what they'll enjoy and just as you might enjoy one server better, someone else will have their own preferences.
If you really want to improve this place stop thinking one thing or one person is better than another, just pick what you enjoy and try to improve on that.

and if you look at how SA:MP is slowly dying(it’s not a dead mod, no)

Part of that is because the owner has given up on the project and taken down the forums, which included the wiki. It's one of the reasons we want to try and move away from it and make use of MTA:SA.

Old games have their place but we should also be realistic about the potential reach. Overall SA:MP player count seems to point slightly downwards, I assume the same is true for MTA:SA. I think the effort to MTA:SA is worth it still but if I had a choice, I would put all efforts on V:MP instead and launch it sooner rather than later.

Again, our developers and staff are free to choice which projects they want to work on. And if specialized dev work is ever needed servers can always reach out to the other devs who are most of the time happy to help out.

[Cutt3r]

@Brian - out of curiosity and a desire to understand alone, how would the community leaders expect someone who had a toxic/bad attitude or way of communicating to show that they changed? I felt time would help (since i believed that people mature over time) but I see where you are coming from when you say that an instance of good behavior doesn't mean they have changed (i have paraphrased, please pardon if misunderstood).

[Hammer_]

There is in no way any competition, nor am I asking anyone to compete. I can’t program, hence I can do nothing to contribute but I always wanted to. I want the SA:MP playerbase to come back, I want to try the new MTA:SA server, it’s all Argonath in general. A community we love, and cherish. I want SA:MP to be brought back, but what I meant was that I wouldn’t want all the focus to be on SA:MP when we have an opportunity to grow more and more in FiveM, and restore our precious community back. This was the first RP server I ever played, I learnt a lot, I swear. I have memories, people don’t remember me since I wasn’t one of the popular ones, one could call me a noob who’d disappear behind the shadows. Someone nobody knew. MTA SA, SA:MP, FiveM, these servers can co-exist, and I’d be really happy if somehow the SA:MP server was restored. It’s one of my wishes to bring back Argo SA:MP, however what I meant was(saying it again), not at the cost of future of Argo. That’s all. @Brian

But not all the focus is on SAMP, you created this topic yourself with it being aimed solely at the SAMP server yet you then say that SAMP shouldn't be our primary project, even though no one claimed it was. FiveM has people working on it, just like there's people working on VC, GTA III, Minecraft. People will work on what they enjoy and on what they think they'd be good at and fit in well.
And just a FYI, as a community leader I assist all parts of the community and Badandy will also still be helping out with the FiveM server, he just wants his main focus to be MTA:SA.

You are the one that caused this divide between SA and GTA V by thinking there's a "primary" server in the topic you created to focus on SA and you assumed things that are not correct. Neither one server is better than the other, people play what they'll enjoy and just as you might enjoy one server better, someone else will have their own preferences.
If you really want to improve this place stop thinking one thing or one person is better than another, just pick what you enjoy and try to improve on that.

I assumed wrong thinking there were priorities but all servers are equal, however, I’d still like to see SA:MP back up. I’ll try being there myself in some time, and maybe we could all bring it back.

[Kessu]

@Brian - out of curiosity and a desire to understand alone, how would the community leaders expect someone who had a toxic/bad attitude or way of communicating to show that they changed? I felt time would help (since i believed that people mature over time) but I see where you are coming from when you say that an instance of good behavior doesn't mean they have changed (i have paraphrased, please pardon if misunderstood).

By not ban evading would be a really good start 

[TheGreasyChopper]

I'd like to ask @Badandy if there will be any follow-up updates on SAMP before you fully move on to MTA?  I recall some plans and discussions on QOL features around the time you came up as a dev, but the last update we had was in September last year.

@Brian - out of curiosity and a desire to understand alone, how would the community leaders expect someone who had a toxic/bad attitude or way of communicating to show that they changed? I felt time would help (since i believed that people mature over time) but I see where you are coming from when you say that an instance of good behavior doesn't mean they have changed (i have paraphrased, please pardon if misunderstood).

By not ban evading would be a really good start 

^+1

Don't wanna lick ass, but seriously thank you Kessu. If only people applied the rules as they are written in SAMP, we wouldn't have died off.

[Sawyer]

Regarding this, Saywer, I wanted to ask you. You said that even if Greasy won the elections, you and the rest of your election party would return as Dentico.

That was the original plan, since my whole involvement as a candidate started off as a troll-ish personal bet with Lawrence Dentico.

Greasy won, no sign of you.. What happened?

Since that didn't happen and my original crime political party did not wish to get involved (although I personally tried my best to motivate them to), I was right there in-game, after the elections, and went for FBI along with my trusted friend Leroy Kolta. We both had our exams, trainings and lessons for around 2 straight weeks and formed a great agent-duo for a while.. until the server died.

We're not campaigning right now buddy, so you are a few months late for bullshittery, but have a nice day. 

That made me come to the conclusion that people only stick to the server as long as they got what they want.

I was barely missing out at top 3 of in-game activity even after the elections because freaks like blitz, Terro and Mike Collin were constantly online 24/7. I genuinely feel your biased judgement has blinded you friend.

I felt time would help (since i believed that people mature over time)

I'm not sure about that. 

[Badandy]

I'd like to ask @Badandy if there will be any follow-up updates on SAMP before you fully move on to MTA?  I recall some plans and discussions on QOL features around the time you came up as a dev, but the...

As I said before, once we move to MTA SA, the SAMP is most likely will be shutdown eventually unless the SAMP server has a consistent player base. The SAMP server or code won't be deleted though so if for some reason it needs to come back, it could. About updates to SAMP server before moving, I will be releasing an announcement about that along with information about MTA SA and other tidbits in the coming weeks. If you have any questions, DM me on Discord.