[SA:MP] Developers Answer: Give Examples

[Gandalf]

Player sits and weedfield in full armor and combat shotgun with a spraycan around the weed flower. A new player goes up to try his hand at a new job and the regular goes "You got 3 secs to leave or you die !!!!!" new player runs off scared to next weedfield to find the same thing by someone else.

I see this is very wrong.. but what would they be punished for? DM?

If they do not answer the questions a true newbie would ask and actually shoot it would be considered DM. Scaring players is not outside the rules.

[Gandalf]

Situation:

Player 1 jokes about player 2, player 2 jokes him back. Admin bans player 2. Jokes were about other guys IG name.

Question:

was that the right thing to do?? Both said only 1 word, but only player 2 got banned? And why BAN, why no warn, kick, banana or tempban?

Ps. happened IG few min ago. I got SS if you dont unserstand from the text.

In many situations what may look to 1 word for some players is an ongoing situation. If admins notice a constant stream of bad jokes or provocative behaviour, at some point they will start taking actions.
As player enter and exit constantly, it is fuly possible someone missed a warning, or just came in at a bad time.

Admins are always able to give the punishment they feel is correct for the situation, there are no specific rules on which punishment to use in which situation. If a player feels the admin made a too strong or unfair decision, he can write to [email protected]
All mails that arrive there are read, and like reports on server many are handled without direct visible answer.

[Gandalf]

Imagine the following Situation

I'm a bog standard cop, SAPD Senior Officer etc, am patrolling with SMG and Deagle as standard etc...

I drive past Grove Street, and there are a group of about 10 people, Araatus and others, and practically every single one opens fire on me with Combat Shotguns, M4s etc.

Could this be considered bannable?

If the group is suspected they can open fire. If they are not suspected and open fire. it is bannable.

[XSniper]

There are HUGE controversy over this question back and forth everywhere, but I'd like to hear an answer from a developer. Question: Being SAPD this bothers me. "Does FBI have control over SAPD/ARPD" or "Does SAPD/ARPD have control over FBI".

Ex: Being in a 207, or dangerous crime scene(murder) with suspectes still wandering around. SAPD arrives first as usual taking care of the situation as usual, then FBI arrives moments later WHAT concerns me is are they ranked high enough to control over SAPD and demand orders, as in "Alright FBI here, SAPD step back just secure the surrondings while we handle this." Why can't SAPD just take over things or atleast "cooperate with FBI" not just always letting FBI taking over every situation.

I would want a developer or manager,etc to answer this, thank you.

[Mikro]

In such situations FBI can take over control, since these high profile situations are a specialism of the FBI. I guess Gandalf will clarify this more..

About that we (the FBI) take over control all the time, that is not true. We mainly take the lead in 207's, but surely not always. Sometimes there is already someone negotiating, then we most times just closely work together. Whenever we have taken over control, we like never send units back to hold a perimeter (only a few maybe). We like to cooperate with all other cops as long they stay a little patient.

Anyways, Gandalf posted an answer on a quite similar question on the ARPD forums.

http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=18373.msg155602#msg155602

5. Do FBI Agents outrank ARPD Officers?

yes

6. Does this mean they can give them orders?

yes

9. Do FBI Agents outrank SAPD Officers?

yes

10. Does this mean they can give them orders?

yes

While the answers are straight, unfortunately they do not take in account that this is valid only within the boundaries of role play. With the sometimes questionable attitude of several players, the line between an order and non-rp behaviour is hard to tell and has to be judged by the present players.

RP order : I am FBI Agent, we need this criminal for a federal case
Non-RP order: I am FBI, freecops GTFO

RP order: Take the suspect in for investigation
Non-RP order: Leave him alone you don't know how to play cop.

[Gandalf]

There are HUGE controversy over this question back and forth everywhere, but I'd like to hear an answer from a developer. Question: Being SAPD this bothers me. "Does FBI have control over SAPD/ARPD" or "Does SAPD/ARPD have control over FBI".

Ex: Being in a 207, or dangerous crime scene(murder) with suspectes still wandering around. SAPD arrives first as usual taking care of the situation as usual, then FBI arrives moments later WHAT concerns me is are they ranked high enough to control over SAPD and demand orders, as in "Alright FBI here, SAPD step back just secure the surrondings while we handle this." Why can't SAPD just take over things or atleast "cooperate with FBI" not just always letting FBI taking over every situation.

I would want a developer or manager,etc to answer this, thank you.

As noted elsewhere, the outranking is to be done within the boundaries ofr resonable roleplay.
This means that all involved will have to consider how such a situation would be handled in reality.

First of all the idea of SAPD securing the surroundings is not strange. Instead of camping wiating for a shootout, the roads leading to the area should be blocked, traffic diverted and houses evacuated so that nobody would be in the area except those directly involved on both sides.
FBI would not arrive with 20 people, but with a a maximum of 5, specialized in negotiations and profiling the criminals. The leader of the team would coordinate with the leader of the SAPD operation, and the leader of the SWAT team involved to liberate hostages.
FBI would run negotiations while SWAT would take tactical positions, and ARPD(SAPD) would secure the area.

So what is your exact probliem, ither than wanting to kill criminals ?

[XSniper]

As noted elsewhere, the outranking is to be done within the boundaries ofr resonable roleplay.
This means that all involved will have to consider how such a situation would be handled in reality.

First of all the idea of SAPD securing the surroundings is not strange. Instead of camping wiating for a shootout, the roads leading to the area should be blocked, traffic diverted and houses evacuated so that nobody would be in the area except those directly involved on both sides.
FBI would not arrive with 20 people, but with a a maximum of 5, specialized in negotiations and profiling the criminals. The leader of the team would coordinate with the leader of the SAPD operation, and the leader of the SWAT team involved to liberate hostages.
FBI would run negotiations while SWAT would take tactical positions, and ARPD(SAPD) would secure the area.

So what is your exact probliem, ither than wanting to kill criminals ?

My situation is not about the criminals, it's about the discrimination, earlier this week when Ben posted those questions on the ARPD forums it was because of an incident that happened with an ARPD and FBI members.

I just want to know if FBI has the right to order around SAPD/ARPD. And if yes, why? Why not the other way SAPD ordering FBI?

It's not about the criminals in this case, it's mainly how people take their ranks and I believe there should be a post or topic talking about it.

[Julio.]

Personally, for certain FBI members I hold little respect for them.

I once pulled a guy over for speeding when I was an SAPD Cadet, and he showed his badge, and I got suspected by him.

FBI should not be senior in my view, they do a different job, if I am leading a situation as a Senior Officer, and the FBI came up to me and said 'We are in charge,' I would politely tell them to fuck off and start negotiating, since thats their job, not to secure the area.

[Biggo2]

Why can't we shoot from the top of planes?

When in mid air, the plane has to go around buildings to shoot those on foot. The player shooting also has a high risk of falling with the amount of desync/lag. It's nothing compared to carsurf shooting, so why not allow it?

[JDC]

Personally, for certain FBI members I hold little respect for them.

I once pulled a guy over for speeding when I was an SAPD Cadet, and he showed his badge, and I got suspected by him.

In that scenario, the FBI Agent broke the law and abused his rights, and is evidence of corruption. Agents are also obligated to abide by speeding laws unless in a pursuit, as with all other laws, which all other cops must also abide by.

[Ness]

I've called the police many times to report someone who was committing a crime, and happens to be an fbi agent with his badge away. When the cops arrive, the FBI agent just showed his badge and they walked away, not bothering to investigate what happened. Is this allowed?

[Aldo]

Area we allowed to aid our friends with hits?

[miha1111]

SITUATION: Player is banned.
Just curious...does 3 month and 1 year rule apply to banned players?

[Exclusive.]

The rule counts for everyone.

[Louis_Keyl]

I just want to know if FBI has the right to order around SAPD/ARPD. And if yes, why? Why not the other way SAPD ordering FBI?

As stated by Gandalf, the FBI in charge of the team should coordinate with the other teams leaders, and viceversa. If the FBI Tells the SWAT to rush in a house because the hostage is dead or safe, the SWAT Should do it otherwise the operation will most likely fail and the agent could get killed, and if the FBI tells the SAPD leader to move his units and cover the perimeter, he should obey since if that fails, a lot of new suspects could get into the area and rush inside the place where the kidnapers are to aid them. If either one of the leaders fail to coordinate, then the operation will fail and you would never get organization between the teams. Some times the FBI is in charge of the Assaulting team at the same time as negotiations because there is no SWAT Available, and they have priority if SWAT isn't there. And if there isn't any senior officer the FBI takes the lead of both teams.
FBI Will always be the 'head' of the operation since they will be the ones that will have ears (and eyes sometimes) on the suspects, without them how will the SWAT know when to rush or how will the SAPD know if they have to pull back or not, or the suspects' demands?
Of course, if you're going to stay on the place waiting for something to happen to use your gun or act rambo and be the hero you're going to be punished since you will be most likely ruining the RP and the operation; This is especially directed to those people who rush in a house before the FBI can even talk with one kidnaper, in such case the higher ranked are allowed to directly order these officers and even ban them from duty if they don't obey.
The FBI, same as SWAT, will never arrive in 1 second after the suspects are settled up, both teams are elite and have to prepare, equip and planificate what they're going to do.
As for the FBI arriving late, if the SWAT would arrive late to a situation, you would still let them handle the assault team, right?


tl;dr: It is always taken as the FBI leads everyone because they are the bridge between the suspects and the police forces, and the others teams would fail without this bridge, and due to this most of the times the SAPD or SWAT team lets the FBI lead the operation; of course if the operation fails because the SAPD or SWAT leader doesn't want to follow the FBI suggestion on porpuse because they think the FBI is not above, the FBI is allowed to punish these members for theyselves.

tl;dr 2: No, each team has it's own leader, if SWAT isn't availble FBI takes assault role too, and if SAPD Responsibles aren't availble, they take the SAPD Leader role; The 'ordering around' is commonly mistaken since FBI tells the other leaders what should they do to success, due the FBI being trained especially for this task and being directly in contact with the suspects.