[SA:MP] Developers Answer: Give Examples

[Gandalf]

We decided to put on public the discussion from admins section, as the discussion can help a lot to everyone on server and not only admins... It is also helping you to understand the position of developers and view on roleplay Argonath would like to stick to...

The topic is based on "Situations" and answers from DEVELOPERS...
So please do not start answer on questions in topic unless developers will not clear out their position... Do not start long discussions about this or that situation... The answer from developers is the first and the last... Instead of taking a topic as arguing read the "solutions" suggested by developers and try to understand what it is about... Do NOT use this topic for complains... It is ONLY for clearing up situations for less misunderstanding of players and admins actions...

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From the FBI discussion it is clear that many admins are uncertain currently about what actions to take in situations, and how to interpret the rules.
So here is the challenge. You give us a situation, and we will respond with the action we see suitable.

Example:
Situation metagaming.
Four people want to enter the FBI conference. The guard stops them with 'Corleones are not allowed'. They reply with 'How you know who we are ?' and 'something weriddo not metagamesomething weird.
Then they get in to a discussion on this.

Solution : Offer the thought that a guard at the FBI building would know the faces of one of the top 'business empires'.
Rules: this is a no-rule situation. We do not have rules that allow or disallow metagaming.

[Pandalink]

Situation:
There is a large group of criminals wanted, and for the sake of self-preservation they have come together.
The Police forces launch constant assaults and due to the fact the criminals are better equipped, positioned, and skilled, the cops keep dying. The criminals are basically not dying. No criminals intend to return after death, and since none die, none do.
Suddenly, one of the cops calls the whole situation "DM! DM!" (in a specific situation this is based on, this was actually an admin).
DM?

As you said, if you are wanted you can expect to be shot at, similarly if you are shooting at wanted guys you can expect to be shot at - I don't think it should be classed as DMing just because the cops can't win.

It seems that "omg, DMers!" is just a code-phrase for "We can't win through combat, lets get them kicked!".
I think this needs to be clearer, as its irritating when the cops have the nerve to complain when they are the ones attacking, and the criminals are just defending in a single place with good positions.

[Gandalf]

Situation:
There is a large group of criminals wanted, and for the sake of self-preservation they have come together.
The Police forces launch constant assaults and due to the fact the criminals are better equipped, positioned, and skilled, the cops keep dying. The criminals are basically not dying. No criminals intend to return after death, and since none die, none do.
Suddenly, one of the cops calls the whole situation "DM! DM!" (in a specific situation this is based on, this was actually an admin).
DM?

As you said, if you are wanted you can expect to be shot at, similarly if you are shooting at wanted guys you can expect to be shot at - I don't think it should be classed as DMing just because the cops can't win.

It seems that "omg, DMers!" is just a code-phrase for "We can't win through combat, lets get them kicked!".
I think this needs to be clearer, as its irritating when the cops have the nerve to complain when they are the ones attacking, and the criminals are just defending in a single place with good positions.

In such a situation it is not DM. Wanted criminals have the right to shoot back as cops, and it is up to the cops to find a way against a group. However if the criminals get 'support' from non-wanted criminals that kill cops and become wanted, a DM situation does occur for those supporting. Reason is that while in a fight, cops have no time to suspect additional people for attack and can there for only fire at these people once they have killed a cop, as otherwise they will receive a warning and could be kicked by script. If there is a mix of wanted and non-wanted criminals firing, the only solution for cops is retreat and suspect the non-wanted criminals. The criminals can not call 'abuse' as they are assisting wanted criminals in that case.

[CBFasi]

From the FBI discussion it is clear that many admins are uncertain currently about what actions to take in situations, and how to interpret the rules.
So here is the challenge. You give us a situation, and we will respond with the action we see suitable.

Example:
Situation metagaming.
Four people want to enter the FBI conference. The guard stops them with 'Corleones are not allowed'. They reply with 'How you know who we are ?' and '((do not metagame)).
Then they get in to a discussion on this.

Solution : Offer the thought that a guard at the FBI building would know the faces of one of the top 'business empires'.
Rules: this is a no-rule situation. We do not have rules that allow or disallow metagaming.

Actually had this happened at the re-run of the Conferance, and they even tried /changename (no skin or number change), thankfully an alert admin was part of the external guard detail...
The comments straight after indicated that it was literally just an attempt to get inside, no problems at all in the end.

[Jaaskaa]

Situation : An individual commit a kidnapping. Law enforcement answers. They ask what he want. He say nothing. Negociator offer him money, lot of money, he remain polite and professional. He do all usual steps that could lead to a situation progression. The only answer from the kidnapper is to kill the hostage and go away like it was ok.

My question : What he hell was that ?  :trust:
The real question : Can this be considered as provoked dming or abuse with intent to dm ? Seriously if you take someone in hostage, you have a reason which is something else than to just kill him in front of law enforcement.

[Carhartt]

Jaaskaa, perhaps this person was just crazy.

[Gandalf]

Situation : An individual commit a kidnapping. Law enforcement answers. They ask what he want. He say nothing. Negociator offer him money, lot of money, he remain polite and professional. He do all usual steps that could lead to a situation progression. The only answer from the kidnapper is to kill the hostage and go away like it was ok.

My question : What he hell was that ?  :trust:
The real question : Can this be considered as provoked dming or abuse with intent to dm ? Seriously if you take someone in hostage, you have a reason which is something else than to just kill him in front of law enforcement.

You are right to question, but a kidnapper can choose to kill the hostage. It is what happens after that what matters.

[polopolo]

Is it only for situation that happaned, or also of what NOT happaned?

Situation: An boss of the maffia gets killed, should he changename to another RP?

[Gandalf]

Is it only for situation that happaned, or also of what NOT happaned?

Situation: An boss of the maffia gets killed, should he changename to another RP?

Solution: We feel that RP does in no way connect to the nick you are using. The nick is for your friends to recognize you so that you do not have to announce your identity to them. there for a frequent /changename was never intended. the /changename tool was to let people easy join or leave a clan, or change their nick if they decide they no longer like it.
Your character come from the skin you use, and how you connect your actions to it.

[Vice]

situation: Many civilians starts protesting next to the LSPD at Commerce district. The Argonath Police Department goes on the scene, and asks to protestors to leave the road, and stop the illegal activities. Mean while as admin, i lock the event with announce : no more players allowed to join to "Protesting RP" . After that, all protestors got suspected for "disobeying police orders, illegal protesting" , then the Police assaults the mass with using only baton and all protestors killed or arrested. After all, some player tries to start again and get together the protestors. I as admin, warned them to do not start it over, becuase that role play is ended, this is RPG server not Protesting RP nor Civil war RP server. Those players whos refused to follow my order, was kicked. Then the server life went to normal bed.


question: can i lock RP events/situation to dont join more players, so aviod the chaos and DM // same with Kidnapping RP, when more and more civils want to join as kidnapper when the police already blocked the area

[Jaaskaa]

Situation (Just happened) : Two guys want to rob a third guy. So they ask the guy : Pullover i want to talk. The guy run away and suddenly the cops shows up and suspect the two ''robbers''.

Question : Was this abuse from police, abuse from the player, normal roleplay situation ?

Also, about the previous case : I think u were right, some events have to be controlled or they can run out of ... control... Example, a car show don't need to be controled to a maximum level because it only involve showing cars. A protest can easily turn to riot so it should be more restricted. We have seen several protests were civilans would come, protest, then some people come start fighting with the cops, come back, keep going and this last for an hour, kicks, warns and so on... So ''closing'' an event when it is the judged that the maximum ammount to keep a safe rp is attained seems to be the thing to do in my personnal opinion but Gandalf will give you the good answer.

[Vice]

situation: a kidnapper hides with hostage in his own business, he can set the entrance fee as high as he want.. so when the police enters he will get lot of money.


question: Can the criminals hide in own business ?

+note: If not... the players can also abuse this if they go a friend's business.. and in the end they share money

[Gandalf]

situation: Many civilians starts protesting next to the LSPD at Commerce district. The Argonath Police Department goes on the scene, and asks to protestors to leave the road, and stop the illegal activities. Mean while as admin, i lock the event with announce : no more players allowed to join to "Protesting RP" . After that, all protestors got suspected for "disobeying police orders, illegal protesting" , then the Police assaults the mass with using only baton and all protestors killed or arrested. After all, some player tries to start again and get together the protestors. I as admin, warned them to do not start it over, becuase that role play is ended, this is RPG server not Protesting RP nor Civil war RP server. Those players whos refused to follow my order, was kicked. Then the server life went to normal bed.


question: can i lock RP events/situation to dont join more players, so aviod the chaos and DM // same with Kidnapping RP, when more and more civils want to join as kidnapper when the police already blocked the area

If you feel that any kind of spontaneous event will cause chaos or bad atmosphere, you have all rights to close it and warn those who keep continuing.

[Gandalf]

Situation (Just happened) : Two guys want to rob a third guy. So they ask the guy : Pullover i want to talk. The guy run away and suddenly the cops shows up and suspect the two ''robbers''.

Question : Was this abuse from police, abuse from the player, normal roleplay situation ?

Also, about the previous case : I think u were right, some events have to be controlled or they can run out of ... control... Example, a car show don't need to be controled to a maximum level because it only involve showing cars. A protest can easily turn to riot so it should be more restricted. We have seen several protests were civilans would come, protest, then some people come start fighting with the cops, come back, keep going and this last for an hour, kicks, warns and so on... So ''closing'' an event when it is the judged that the maximum ammount to keep a safe rp is attained seems to be the thing to do in my personnal opinion but Gandalf will give you the good answer.

In this case you might question the cops on how they understood they were robbers, and what was their reason to suspect.
It depends on the reasons for suspect if their war abuse or not.

Situation from the running player: A couple of hoods ask him to pull over...he is likely to get robbed so has every right to run.
Situation from the robbers: Their intended victim runs. Suddenly cops show up and suspect them. How would the cops know their intentions ?
Situation from the cops (negative) : They overhear a discussion somehow, go to meet the guys and suspect them for robbery.
Situation from the cops (positive): They are patrolling and see two hoods running after a citizen. When they ask them to pull over the hoods ignore the order and start crying abuse when suspected.

In the negative situation, you should warn the cops for incorrect procedures and canselsuspect.
In the positive situation, there was no abuse.

[Jaaskaa]

Very common situation : Cars in a chase. Situation : Cop : This is your 5th car in this chase.  Criminal : No this is my 3/4th car !



Question : Any tip for knowning how many cars ? How should an admin react if the complaints keep going ? etc...