My idea: Alteration of radar

[Decy]

I saw Brian OConnors idea and saw where he was coming from. He received some good feedback but also some bad. This is my solution to this argument and hopefully some things can be resolved:  :rules:

Radar stays

Citizens: 
Citizens - (Citizen colour)
Citizens recognise who citizens are
Gangs - (Citizen colour)
Suspects -(Citizen colour)
Citizens are unsure who gang members and suspects are. Distinguished first hand by actions and appearance.
Cops - (Cop colour)
All citizens easily know who the police are

Pros:
>Gang and suspects identity hidden means they will have to distinguish themselves who is a member of a gang and who isn't
>Ensures all police jobs are left for police as they cannot be 100% sure who is a suspect and who isn't

Gangs: 
Citizens - Not on radar
Prevents unnecessary killing of innocents
Gangs - (Gang colour)
Shows where rival gangs and fellow gang members are
Suspects -Not on radar
This will prevent gangs from helping suspects evade the police
Cops - Not on radar
In a gangwar, they will be unsure if the police are nearby

Pros:
>Will show only gangs so gang members can only kill each other and not innocent people
>Police not on radar so in gangwars they can be unaware of police stings etc.
>Police can keep watch on gangs without them noticing. Police will be able to keep track on gang activities easier

Suspects:  :cool:
Citizens - (Citizen colour)
They can try and blend in with citizens
Gangs - (Gang colour)
They can try and get assistance from gangs
Suspects - (Suspect colour)
They can try and team up with other suspects
Cops - Not on radar
They don't know where police are so they could be heading straight into police etc.

Pros:
>They can try and persuade citizens to help them
>They can ask gangs for help but gangs cannot see suspects. This means it prevents gangs from helping suspect without permission.
>Suspects will be able to team up and help each other
>Police actions such as roadblocks cannot be shown. This means chases can be finished easily due t roadblocks and other actions

Cops: 
Citizens - (Citizen colour)
They know who innocent people are
Gangs - (Gang colour)
They will know where gang activity is
Suspects - (Suspect colour)
They will know locations of suspects
Cops - (Cop colour)
They will know where police are

BUT: Police radar can ONLY be shown when in a police vehicle

Pros:
>Gang wars can be controlled easier
>Suspects can be tracked down easier
>Police will be able to know if there are police roadblocks up ahead etc.
>No radar on foot will mean there is a fair balance. Suspects will find it easier to hide in areas such as behind walls so police will have to search abit more. Police in cars will be able to tell them where the suspect is

Anyways that is everything, if you have any questions feel free to ask and ill add them below with my answers,
Decy

Questions:

Changing the colors of blips will confuse players... They already cannot understand, who is wanted even...

No colours will be changed. The various gang and law enforcement colours will stay the same. It will be a process of eliminating the various blips not changing the colours.

About gangs colors...
What is the difference between gang and civilian???

Gangs as you know are already in the different skin types such as grove, ballas, triads, Mafia etc. The civilians are classified in the civilian skins.

Once again - find me the good point for gangs being in game... (Gang wars as well)...

We all know that most gangs on the server have access to weapons. The obvious reason why people pick these skins are to fight each other. If that's what they want to do, so be it. In San Andreas single player we have seen two rival gangs fight each other with weapons. I know this is classified as death matching but eliminating the civilian and other blips from their radars means that there will be a decrease in gangs killing the players who are not involved, such as civilians.

As soon as people wanted - blip disappears???
Think about it then...

The suspect blip will not disappear from the police radar so the police are the only type who has the greatest possibility to catch them themselves, without the help from gangs or other people. Only the police should be able to go after the suspects.

A civilian calls for a taxi. How to find ?

The civilian skins Will be able to see fellow civilians. This ensures that all taxi, bus, limo drivers are using the civilian skin. Gang skins acting as taxi drivers will have a hard time finding a fare as they cant see the location of their customer but, thinking realistically, not all gang members drive taxis and buses

A civilian needs an ambulance. How to find ?

That is a good question. This can be sorted out by allowing the white paramedic icon to be shown on EVERY groups radar, regardless if they are using gang skins or not. Everyone on the server has the right to know where medical assistance is.

Someone rams a police car or shoots (no kill), then speeds off. As he is not suspected, how to find the guy ?

The police as mentioned will be able to see everybody on the radar. You have to remember that the icon colours will not be changed, it will just be a matter of eliminating certain ones from each skin.

We still do not allow gang wars without control.

I do agree that the gang war aspect is death matching, but we need to think of the big picture. Gang wars will be gangs killing each other, as they do in the single player game. The police radar shows where the different gangs are so they can intervene in gang wars easily. When we think of the words gang wars and death matching we think of chaos. The chaos we think of, using this radar system, will be basically limited to the gangs. Any player who Rps in a citizen will not be shown on their radar so the possibility of them getting killed randomly is slim. This will cut down on the random killings if you like, in this server.


The main problem is that we need to be open for new players, for keeping things alive. To to this we have to keep things simple. Many ideas regarding radar and other will stop new players from understanding what is going on, and we will lose the chance of keeping them.

I agree with this fully, but, it will guide them a little. Say a new user does enter the server. He doesn't know the rules. Obviously some rules can be enforced using this system. For example, a user picks a gang. The user will only see other gangs on the radar. Their first impression that if they are in a gang they will need to kill a rival gang member. They can easily do this without killing any non gang members, therefore no fuss will be made.

[hell1989]

good job, I like it

[Aragorn]

Changing the colors of blips will confuse players... They already cannot understand, who is wanted even...

About gangs colors...
What is the difference between gang and civilian???

Once again - find me the good point for gangs being in game... (Gangwars as well)...

As soon as people wanted - blip disappears???
Think about it then...

The guy comes on RPG server... Which means this server supports by police... They guy sells drugs, gets wanted from one of cop - halleluya lets start chase (action in game - the main, why people play)...
After 2 hours to get one wanted all are pissed off...

Criminal - cos he is bored...
Police - cos they cannot find ONE guy in whole SA map...

What will happen??? Criminal will go to cops... To attract attention he will drive around them... Untill they will not see him "Oh! this is the guy we chased two hours before!"...
So that will be already not a realistic behaviour...

Again chase, turning on the crossroad - welcome back two hours of chase...

While police will try to find a criminal, others will sit and wait their turn...

????

[Irw_Patrone]

Doesn't anyone think of the '/loc id' command. You don't need these blip bullshit and name tags above head, all pointless. /loc tells very accurately  where a player is, and chasing him this way is much more fun, not being able to see a large blinking name above his head, asking to be shot at it, it's just silly and pointless, because if you lose visual contact, the damn name tag will still be there, flushing all the fun down the toilet. Just use /loc, and remove all head tags and other crap, it just doesn't go with a roleplay.

Maybe there should be a script, which tells you a player's name, when he comes closer than 10 meters of you, giving a chance for hitmen and other people to stay stealthy, and the normal persons are still identifiable, the script tells you, who approached you, in the chat log, not above his head.

[Aragorn]

We have /area ID command... Yes - you can find out that criminal is in Downtown Los Santos... While you will arrive to Downtown and check /area ID it will show - criminal is in Mulholland intersection... You are driving to Mulholland, type /area ID, it says criminal is in Red County...

Welcome to the "find a needle in the grass"...

Or you think criminals will sit there and wait when you ll check out all Downtown???

Or you suppose, that cops will drive not only on the roads in the countryside, but all over the fields, hills (yeah, sorry, but criminal can just sit on the grass near the river, and it will still show you "Red County")...

[Irw_Patrone]

Then make the system of locating more accurate, when he is near a ammunation or other enterable building, the script tells that he is near amunation, not some other craphole. Make it more user friendly, no one knows where the hell is mulholland intersection or some other hard name.

Mulholland should be named The Rich people's hill of LS, and the script tells that he is there, and also in which area of it, south,west,north,south etc.

And yes, /loc if he is in desert area, it only tells that he is in bone county, add some landmarks to make more accurate. like a51, desert airfield, desert ammunation, quarry, or even the distance measured from one of these places: That player is 500 meters south-east of Quarry, making him easy to find.

Or the /loc command shows his blip on map for 1 second, and it can be used once every 30 seconds

[Watti]

no..
Just leave it..

Why change it

And Ron was getting at he could stay at that spot... untill he is /loc'd then run find a different one.. run... its easier.. and SA is realty big

[Aragorn]

Then make the system of locating more accurate, when he is near a ammunation or other enterable building, the script tells that he is near amunation, not some other craphole. Make it more user friendly, no one knows where the hell is mulholland intersection or some other hard name.

The script is using areas of game "SA"...
What u suggest? Start RON making the new areas with the names "near ammunation"???
Do you know how many areas there are already???
And do you have idea how to creat the new areas???
It means RON or other developer starts running all around San Andreas, putting names on cities' streets "near clucking bells, burger shot, 24/7" (Las Venturas), then creat "accurate" areas in country sides, putting votes "Vote: how to name this area near the bridge that is 300 metres to the north from some ghost farm, there is no car and a lot of cutted trees around"??? And all start make a new names...

Then comes a noober:
/area 6
Player [R*]RON is in a Sleepy Hollow
Noober:   

[Kerr]

  HAve to agree with ron here...
If it aint broke, dont fix it.
The current system is fine as it is. Lets not change it

[Decy]

Please delete them /loc <id> posts and keep this topic focused. By the way i have answered the questions and they are now on the title description

[Gandalf]

More questions...

A civilian calls for a taxi. How to find ?
A civilian needs an ambulance. How to find ?
Someone rams a police car or shoots (no kill), then speeds off. As he is not suspected, how to find the guy ?

Radar blips are on or off, not on for one skin and off for others.

We still do not allow gang wars without control.

The main problem is that we need to be open for new players, for keeping things alive. To to this we have to keep things simple. Many ideas regarding radar and other will stop new players from understanding what is going on, and we will lose the chance of keeping them.