Dialog with the Owners

[Brian]

If there is interest in Rust, me and Goobii can help run it since we used to run a Rust-community a few years ago with over 100 daily players and we both have deep knowledge of management both from there and from here since be both used to be higher administration here!

Wow wow wow easy guys we are not that fast... We can provide many possibilities just will fix things one by one...

Setting up a rust server would actually be relatively easy, all we'd need is a VM. I am unsure but there might even be a left over VM from when Teddy was a systems administrator with the old Rust files on it, as he actively ran one of the servers back in the day.

[Gandalf]

From Sauron I know we have the following VM's running:
SA:MP VM
MySQL VM
IV:MP VM
TeamSpeak VM
Five VM
Argonath Websites VM

Do you / the devs have access to all needed ? Which are not used so we can free hem up? There are also some old VM's switched off as hey have no purpose.

As for the main dedicated server, Sauron will only give access to someone with the needed Linux skills and a high trust level, who can manage things professional. Teddy did a great job in the past and was professional in handing over even if at he time he was negative in some opinions.

[Mark]

Are there any scripters in IV MP community?

Not anymore. The guy behind the game mode, Armelin, is working on the V:MP server which is an improved port of the IV:MP game mode he developed over the years.
IV:MP had a few other scripters to help Armelin around iirc, but they eventually left. Their last project was to bring IV:MP to a new client called CitizenMP and has AI + NPCs, they werr getting help from one of the devs there but eventually it all died again. We don't know why, we don't what's next but we know Armelin who developed IV:MP T4 (an improved version of the IVMP client that we used since 2010 and abandoned in 2013) is gonna shut down everything, probably due to the lack of servers and costs (my guess).

Imho, IVMP T4 was a good chance for Argonath to show others IV can still have a good alternative multiplayer, alot of people still join that discord asking if it's alive but truth is, it needs some proper work to get back in shape. It's up to you guys to decide wether it's worth it or not.

[Chase]

Read this and think about it.
A man eats his lunch at work and complains.
"every day the same old peanut butter. I hate peanut butter."
His boss tells him :
"If you hate peanut butter so much, why not ask you wife to put something else? "
The guy answers:
"What do you know, I am making my own sandwiches for lunch".

Sounds familiar?

Except in this case, peanut butter was all this man was given and all he was able to find. All other butters have disappeared from store shelves, and the only possible way that he might be able to find something different is to talk to a guy who has connections with another guy who has connections with a source for a different butter.

From Sauron I know we have the following VM's running:
SA:MP VM
MySQL VM
IV:MP VM
TeamSpeak VM
Five VM
Argonath Websites VM

Do you / the devs have access to all needed ? Which are not used so we can free hem up? There are also some old VM's switched off as hey have no purpose.

As for the main dedicated server, Sauron will only give access to someone with the needed Linux skills and a high trust level, who can manage things professional. Teddy did a great job in the past and was professional in handing over even if at he time he was negative in some opinions.

@Brian correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK no one has access to the MySQL, Teamspeak, and Web VM.

[Mr. Goobii]

If there is interest in Rust, me and Goobii can help run it since we used to run a Rust-community a few years ago with over 100 daily players and we both have deep knowledge of management both from there and from here since be both used to be higher administration here!

Wow wow wow easy guys we are not that fast... We can provide many possibilities just will fix things one by one...

Setting up a rust server would actually be relatively easy, all we'd need is a VM. I am unsure but there might even be a left over VM from when Teddy was a systems administrator with the old Rust files on it, as he actively ran one of the servers back in the day.

At the size we run out server. The provider said they could not run their VM at higher pace and asked us to have a full dedicated server, which we eventually went for. However it was quite princely.

[Omri]

You are right. We made the top 10th most popular Rust server out there in the world with 1400 unique players each month and when 300 player slot server wasn't enough. Good old memories! ))

Performance wise it ran pretty good I remember, don't remember entirely details regarding the amount of plugins you guys had.

At the size we run out server. The provider said they could not run their VM at higher pace and asked us to have a full dedicated server, which we eventually went for. However it was quite princely.

Needed more RAM? Rust sure love to eat RAM if there are lots of objects / players / builldings on the map...

[Chase]

As for the main dedicated server, Sauron will only give access to someone with the needed Linux skills and a high trust level, who can manage things professional. Teddy did a great job in the past and was professional in handing over even if at he time he was negative in some opinions.

It's understandable to be concerned with trust and security when it comes to that, but there are ways to fix that without giving someone all the access. There's hypervisor software out there such as proxmox and vmware vSphere (both can be acquired for free, legally) that has access control with user groups capabilities. For example you could give each division access to specifically only manage their VM and their VM only, and you could give community leaders the ability to set access and even create new VMs WITHOUT having to give them any super user /root access which can be reserved for Sauron. And it can all be done in a rather easy to use web GUI.

[Omri]

It's understandable to be concerned with trust and security when it comes to that, but there are ways to fix that without giving someone all the access. There's hypervisor software out there such as proxmox and vmware vSphere (both can be acquired for free, legally) that has access control with user groups capabilities. For example you could give each division access to specifically only manage their VM and their VM only, and you could give community leaders the ability to set access and even create new VMs WITHOUT having to give them any super user /root access which can be reserved for Sauron. And it can all be done in a rather easy to use web GUI.

The best solution would probably be Proxmox imo.
vSphere the free version has it's limits vs the paid version.
Using ESXi for my homelab at home, not running the most advanced setup but I am tempting to move over to Proxmox to learn Linux a bit more and not to be restricted behind a license(ESXi)

[Brian]

From Sauron I know we have the following VM's running:
SA:MP VM
MySQL VM
IV:MP VM
TeamSpeak VM
Five VM
Argonath Websites VM

Do you / the devs have access to all needed ? Which are not used so we can free hem up? There are also some old VM's switched off as hey have no purpose.

As for the main dedicated server, Sauron will only give access to someone with the needed Linux skills and a high trust level, who can manage things professional. Teddy did a great job in the past and was professional in handing over even if at he time he was negative in some opinions.

Currently, I personally have access to or know someone that has access to

SAMP VM
IVMP VM

I have a user account for the TeamSpeak VM but it doesn't have the appropriate access to alter the files I need to update the server, or even manage things.

I do not think anyone have access to the Five VM

We do not have access to the MySQL VM, we also do not have access to the Argonath websites VM.

As for the main dedicated server, Sauron will only give access to someone with the needed Linux skills and a high trust level, who can manage things professional. Teddy did a great job in the past and was professional in handing over even if at he time he was negative in some opinions.

I personally have a fair amount of amateur experience with VM management, I've been running and managing several dedicated servers for friends over the years, with my weak point and something I am still working on being networking.

I know @Haldir does this on a professional level. I feel if we'd work together we'd make a good team if that was something you would be interested in, or alternative only Haldir.

I also know @Chase is fairly experienced with VM management and dedicated servers, him helping me a fair few times in the past when I was still learning.

[jNewtonik]

The main difference with other servers has been that we are not a business. This because our philosophy is that in game possessions have no value in reality. That may be outdated, and if the community wishes we can monetize things better even if our economy does not require it.

I will speak on behalf of IVMP. Currently I think IVMP is doing the worst of all contenders, not because it does not have any potential or interests (far from it, it is beloved by many) but the HQ is practically non-existent and development has stopped since the only dev pulled out of it after years of service. I think the dev is now active on V if I recall properly but don't quote me on that.

Basically what this means is that people are trying to temper their hopes for a living IVMP server because they are just not sure what to expect and what the IVMP fate will be (if the final nail isn't in the coffin yet). I see the people having the interest to play on IVMP again but it's development and administration is not up to stuff and really requires internal rework or building from scratch before it can release it's potential once again like in 2010.

I know the spotlight is currently on VMP and potential new games but I believe IVMP still has the potential to shine with the right care and attention, which it now desperately lacks.

As the last remaining DL of IVMP I feel obligated to respond to this. I was requested to become a DL for the single reason of keeping things running, which I tried my best to do. Within 3 months of being an IVMP DL, I was unable to assist the developer with what he needed as I did not have the files he requested, and was unable to obtain them, I was informed IVMP (The actual platform we use) was going to close in a years time. While there is alternative solutions I  feel things are sadly not as straight forward as you believe them to be.

I do how ever agree that the current team could have done more, myself included.

I know you tried your best, our problems started when (as you already mentioned a story before for owners) promises where given from DL's aswell but we never seen any results either... all of them ignored.
It's okay that DL's of IVMP lost their interest in a game that they offered their services for a dozen of years already, but they should be more responsible to pass the torch when they had the perfect oportunity. (I'm talking about Lion) you know why you've been added in DL's and what happend before your arrival in the development phase of CitizenMP. The whole story man is soo complicated and sad that I really don't wanna speak about it. Again, thank you for trying your best, its nowhere near your responsibility of what happend. I feel more responsible than you anyways for this story but >> ''I do how ever agree that the current team could have done more, myself included.''
Surena said it:
I know the spotlight is currently on VMP and potential new games but I believe IVMP still has the potential to shine with the right care and attention, which it now desperately lacks.
It just can't be IVMP anymore, it discontinued any further development, and CitizenMP still a possible alternative to achieve.

[Brian]

The main difference with other servers has been that we are not a business. This because our philosophy is that in game possessions have no value in reality. That may be outdated, and if the community wishes we can monetize things better even if our economy does not require it.

I will speak on behalf of IVMP. Currently I think IVMP is doing the worst of all contenders, not because it does not have any potential or interests (far from it, it is beloved by many) but the HQ is practically non-existent and development has stopped since the only dev pulled out of it after years of service. I think the dev is now active on V if I recall properly but don't quote me on that.

Basically what this means is that people are trying to temper their hopes for a living IVMP server because they are just not sure what to expect and what the IVMP fate will be (if the final nail isn't in the coffin yet). I see the people having the interest to play on IVMP again but it's development and administration is not up to stuff and really requires internal rework or building from scratch before it can release it's potential once again like in 2010.

I know the spotlight is currently on VMP and potential new games but I believe IVMP still has the potential to shine with the right care and attention, which it now desperately lacks.

As the last remaining DL of IVMP I feel obligated to respond to this. I was requested to become a DL for the single reason of keeping things running, which I tried my best to do. Within 3 months of being an IVMP DL, I was unable to assist the developer with what he needed as I did not have the files he requested, and was unable to obtain them, I was informed IVMP (The actual platform we use) was going to close in a years time. While there is alternative solutions I  feel things are sadly not as straight forward as you believe them to be.

I do how ever agree that the current team could have done more, myself included.

I know you tried your best, our problems started when (as you already mentioned a story before for owners) promises where given from DL's aswell but we never seen any results either... all of them ignored.
It's okay that DL's of IVMP lost their interest in a game that they offered their services for a dozen of years already, but they should be more responsible to pass the torch when they had the perfect oportunity. (I'm talking about Lion) you know why you've been added in DL's and what happend before your arrival in the development phase of CitizenMP. The whole story man is soo complicated and sad that I really don't wanna speak about it. Again, thank you for trying your best, its nowhere near your responsibility of what happend. I feel more responsible than you anyways for this story but >> ''I do how ever agree that the current team could have done more, myself included.''
Surena said it:
I know the spotlight is currently on VMP and potential new games but I believe IVMP still has the potential to shine with the right care and attention, which it now desperately lacks.
It just can't be IVMP anymore, it discontinued any further development, and CitizenMP still a possible alternative to achieve.

I am once again sorry for what happened, I should have done more to push for the changes, I have how ever received some hopeful news and am looking forward on seeing how that turns out.

While the focus of the owners might be V:MP I personally know that I and others are still looking forward to expand, or continue on different paths with existing projects. SAMP's future is looking clouded, but we are also looking for alternatives there, and another project is looking promising if they continue bringing what they promise. As well as Rust and our now not so recent anymore Minecraft expansion, and perhaps a for fun Gary's Mod server.

I've also heard some word about a GTA:III project in the works, which is also very exciting.

My Discord DMs are always open if you want to chat some more.

[Huntsman]

My idea is:

SAMP's a lost cause. Sorry, I don't really see its revival a realistic possibility.
VCMP seems to be doing a good job managing themselves and don't need interference.

So perhaps its time the community's focus went to V:MP.

About the GTA III project Brian mentioned - I'd be against it. One of the contributing factors of SAMP's demise was its age. Do we really want to open servers for even older games?

also:

[KJ_deactivated]

My idea is:

SAMP's a lost cause. Sorry, I don't really see its revival a realistic possibility.
VCMP seems to be doing a good job managing themselves and don't need interference.

So perhaps its time the community's focus went to V:MP.

About the GTA III project Brian mentioned - I'd be against it. One of the contributing factors of SAMP's demise was its age. Do we really want to open servers for even older games?

also:

Please stop targeting samp  as dead space .

You are judging samp state only by forums posts. As Kris mentioned roleplay event's happening, Fort Carson project still working. People are roleplaying. 

Also samp age is not an argument, samp has future, I suggest you latest projects on GTASA base.

Just sad to see that multiple times SAMP future is mentioned as possible closing without try to find issues. All work that we have done for samp will be in trash. Nothing new.

[Brian]

I personally disagree and its mostly because of the view points, servers shouldn't be here to compete, some people enjoy certain games who are we to deny them that experience if we can offer it to them, hosting these servers usually doesn't take many resources and there's clearly interest in them as projects are actively being worked on. SAMP might be dying, but the GTA sector especially when it comes to client is still very much active. If people are working on platforms and projects for these servers it clearly means there's interest, I am all for looking to expand, if there's people dedicated to it why the hell not.

[Darxez]

My idea is:

SAMP's a lost cause. Sorry, I don't really see its revival a realistic possibility.
VCMP seems to be doing a good job managing themselves and don't need interference.

So perhaps its time the community's focus went to V:MP.

About the GTA III project Brian mentioned - I'd be against it. One of the contributing factors of SAMP's demise was its age. Do we really want to open servers for even older games?

also:

Sorry but no. You've lost any credibility regarding SA:MP. Go bash on something else where you can get your way.