[Petition]

[Julian]

Incorrect.

Just as there are rules of engagement between criminals and cops, there should be rules of engagement between groups that wish to attack each other. Without those rules there will be what we do not want: constant gang wars.

THAT'S why there should be a limit of the ammount of gang wars per day!

[ChaNce]

I disagree here.

There is a big difference between Cops vs. Gang and Gang vs. Gang.
Both gangs follow the same goals, wiping their enemies out/killing them/taking over their territory.
If the gangs already had conflicts, this conflict should be a reason to be allowed to attack the gang anytime they want.

A normal gang, would NEVER attack the cops for no reason, they even hide from them.
And yes, it should NOT be allowed to attack cops for no reason.
Also, between gangs, if there has been no "beef", like brawls, argueings whatsoever, random attacks shouldn't take place.

[Gandalf]

I just keep getting owned by him  . Perhaps because he's 20+, more English knowledge  :rules: and stuffs.
Anyway, you should be allowed to either accept or not accept the punishment. You can still mute someone. I didn't really accept it - because the reason was like  :poke: for me. Act maturely. By using smileys = not acting maturely. OK, will keep that in mind. Yes, admins can always ban, kick, warn, mute, unmute, unban, moderate, delete warns and stuffs, all that shit normal players can't, but many of them still doing the same shitty thing. That's why I wont go further in discussion now and keep getting owned.You said something. "lots of power". Anyway, yes. Will not fight - I feel too, but no.

OK, on-topic.
How are people suppose to get the other gang's property(-ies) if can't be discussed then, Gandalf?

And sorry, GAH, I hate to apoligize, but...I have to.

Don't worry, I do not act because of being annoyed, if I would be annoyed I would sit back and wait until I am calm, just as I always advise players to do.

The discussion started from me giving examples of a strong valid reason for a gang war.
Ok. lets make a RP from it. Please not that any name of groups are just for example and can be exchanged with named of other groups and areas.

The Stracci family has their 'Stracci boulevard' where they control the business. As one of their rival groups, the Cems, wishes to get in on the good business there they open a new store.
This allows the Cems to be present near the Stracci businesses, and in general provoke them. Stracci can not just kill the Cems, as they have the right to walk on a public street near their business, and any constant attack would either get them in problems with the cops, or with the Government (admins).
Stracci propose Cems to buy their business, but Cems refuse, as they feel the business is to their advantage.
Then Stracci decide to give Cems an ultimatum: either they sell their business to Stracci, or Stracci will take it by force. To get the answer from Cems, a meeting is held outside the city, in a place where support troops can hide.
The dons meet with their main enforcers, and the meeting can have different outcomes:
1. The Dons reach a compromis (unlikely, but possible)
2. One of the groups feels outnumbered and give up to the demands
3. There will be a fight, and the winning group gets the business.

As you see a valid RP scenario, that can be played over a number of days or weeks, and has a clear ending with possible gang war.

What would not be allowed in this case:
- holding the war on Stracci Boulevard, as a spawnpoint is near
- after the war is over the losing group making a new war for the same reason
- if the business is lost, the losing group refusing to sell it to the winning group.

[Gandalf]

THAT'S why there should be a limit of the ammount of gang wars per day!

And how should admins know the limit ?

[legacysh0t]

Well good luck with your idea :P

[Gandalf]

I disagree here.

There is a big difference between Cops vs. Gang and Gang vs. Gang.
Both gangs follow the same goals, wiping their enemies out/killing them/taking over their territory.
If the gangs already had conflicts, this conflict should be a reason to be allowed to attack the gang anytime they want.

A normal gang, would NEVER attack the cops for no reason, they even hide from them.
And yes, it should NOT be allowed to attack cops for no reason.
Also, between gangs, if there has been no "beef", like brawls, argueings whatsoever, random attacks shouldn't take place.

No difference at all.

Cops want to wipe out crime and control the city.
Gangs want to wipe out their rivals and control the city.

Where is the difference ?

[Pandalink]

Cops want to wipe out crime and control the city.
Gangs want to wipe out their rivals and control the city.

I was going to disagree with your first point, but then I saw this quote and I changed my mind, since its actually very correct.

[Devin]

why make all these discussions about this??? the topic was for people to vote either 'yes' or 'no' and its become a mass debate and discussion.. this is going insane...  :poke:

[Inkognito]

We're discussing about posible terms&conditions of gang wars. The discussion is needed in order to accept/deny petition.

Sorry for possible late responce - using my phone

[Devin]

i know that inko but the issue with the smileys.. way off from whats goin on, and i still deny the thing of this petition, it will risk too many and be a issue all the time... there will be 'gangwars' all the time daily... people are bored, they go and shoot some guy from another gang then start a 'gang war'...  -.-

[CM Daniel]

I seriously hate to see Argonath turning into a bureaucratic hole...

Here's my opinion, SCRAP all regulations and conditions for gang wars. For god sakes, a lot of people here seem to miss the whole point of a gang war. The actual point of a gang war is to express a familys hate against another family. People seem to be stuck with the illusion that this hate is only RP'ed in-game, but in 90% of the cases it is not.

People are scared that if there are no strict regulations, gang wars will repeat 24/7. But this is another illusion. You have any idea how much a single war costs? You can't attack other families 24/7, because even if you have 20 million - you will still feel it.

A lot of people want rules bound to this, but I say that is complete nonsense. You can't tie regulations to chaos, you just can't. Gang wars are not supposed to be organised. They are supposed to be cruel and unannounced. Most of you forgot, but this is Grand Theft Auto. This is an RPing server yes, not a DMing server. But DMing is something much different than a little family action.

But of course, if you don't agree you can always just carry on with your '/me'-culture of describing every little action in detail and scream when you see somebody use a single line in capslock on public chat. Go right ahead.

* Daniel puts his hand on his keyboard and starts typing, while listening to a little ring in the background which seems to sound like a bird. Or a bird? Maybe it's a train. Hmm.

* Daniel thinks real hard.

* Daniel puts his other hand on the keyboard.

* Daniel starts typing more with a smile on his face.

* Daniel presses some buttons while he puts his left hand on a bottle filled with an unknown drink.

* Daniel raises the glass and puts it on his lips.

* Daniel thinks about life.

* Daniel /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me

Seriously people, get back in touch with reality! This is a game!

[Wash]

I seriously hate to see Argonath turning into a bureaucratic hole...

Here's my opinion, SCRAP all regulations and conditions for gang wars. For god sakes, a lot of people here seem to miss the whole point of a gang war. The actual point of a gang war is to express a familys hate against another family. People seem to be stuck with the illusion that this hate is only RP'ed in-game, but in 90% of the cases it is not.

People are scared that if there are no strict regulations, gang wars will repeat 24/7. But this is another illusion. You have any idea how much a single war costs? You can't attack other families 24/7, because even if you have 20 million - you will still feel it.

A lot of people want rules bound to this, but I say that is complete nonsense. You can't tie regulations to chaos, you just can't. Gang wars are not supposed to be organised. They are supposed to be cruel and unannounced. Most of you forgot, but this is Grand Theft Auto. This is an RPing server yes, not a DMing server. But DMing is something much different than a little family action.

But of course, if you don't agree you can always just carry on with your '/me'-culture of describing every little action in detail and scream when you see somebody use a single line in capslock on public chat. Go right ahead.

* Daniel puts his hand on his keyboard and starts typing, while listening to a little ring in the background which seems to sound like a bird. Or a bird? Maybe it's a train. Hmm.

* Daniel thinks real hard.

* Daniel puts his other hand on the keyboard.

* Daniel starts typing more with a smile on his face.

* Daniel presses some buttons while he puts his left hand on a bottle filled with an unknown drink.

* Daniel raises the glass and puts it on his lips.

* Daniel thinks about life.

* CM Daniel /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me

Seriously people, get back in touch with reality! This is a game, not a novel!

Fucking word!!

I couldn't agree more with this, even if my 18 testicles were involved.

[Violet]

I seriously hate to see Argonath turning into a bureaucratic hole...

Here's my opinion, SCRAP all regulations and conditions for gang wars. For god sakes, a lot of people here seem to miss the whole point of a gang war. The actual point of a gang war is to express a familys hate against another family. People seem to be stuck with the illusion that this hate is only RP'ed in-game, but in 90% of the cases it is not.

People are scared that if there are no strict regulations, gang wars will repeat 24/7. But this is another illusion. You have any idea how much a single war costs? You can't attack other families 24/7, because even if you have 20 million - you will still feel it.

A lot of people want rules bound to this, but I say that is complete nonsense. You can't tie regulations to chaos, you just can't. Gang wars are not supposed to be organised. They are supposed to be cruel and unannounced. Most of you forgot, but this is Grand Theft Auto. This is an RPing server yes, not a DMing server. But DMing is something much different than a little family action.

But of course, if you don't agree you can always just carry on with your '/me'-culture of describing every little action in detail and scream when you see somebody use a single line in capslock on public chat. Go right ahead.

* Daniel puts his hand on his keyboard and starts typing, while listening to a little ring in the background which seems to sound like a bird. Or a bird? Maybe it's a train. Hmm.

* Daniel thinks real hard.

* Daniel puts his other hand on the keyboard.

* Daniel starts typing more with a smile on his face.

* Daniel presses some buttons while he puts his left hand on a bottle filled with an unknown drink.

* Daniel raises the glass and puts it on his lips.

* Daniel thinks about life.

* Daniel /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me

Seriously people, get back in touch with reality! This is a game!

Well, there you have the Corleone version of this petition. I was waiting for Daniel to respond on it, so on behalf of Corleone, if you want to gangwar for no reason (its true, most gangwars are caused for HE CORLEONE, KILL HIM or oh em geee, he killed me yesterday, nao we kill all with his tag :banana:). If you want to make your enemies bodies blue, organise a weekly clan/gang war time between groups on Paruni server, where it will still be moderated.

[Pandalink]

I totally agree with Daniel, and inherently disagree with any rules around gangwars whatsoever. I'm happy for total all out warfare 24/7.
That said, war is bloody expensive and I know the Araatus/Gvardia war totally burned half my cash in 2 weeks.

Whatever I think, the main admins want rules - the gangs are happy without but as we are on Argonath we must adhere to server rules, same applies here.

[Roadkill]

This server will just turn into a DM server with cops and robbers and regular group wars eventually. :trust: