Dear Argonath.

[Vince]

Wont EVER forget them calls about gang members not leaving gs9 from when we first met  Sure will be missed ALOT frank  One of the best people out there RP wise and just as a good person, hope we can still stay in touch. Good luck with your IRL work and school work I know you'll do well





                                                                                                                         - [AV]Vince

I hope we still have the same freidnship as before mate, if you need anything just call
Please stay in touch Frank, please.  :bye:

                                                                                                                                 - Vince

[Gandalf]

Frank,

I hope you do not mind that I hijack your topic a little bit.
For those who might be less fluent in English, let me phrase your suggestion in a slightly more easy manner.

We have discussed that the direction of Argonath RPG, though it will always be guided and decided by the owners, should involve all members. That means not just the admins and official clans but also those players who feel at home and want to help out Argonath to remain the best and most free RP community.

Many times it seems like the 'us agaist them' mentality is dividing the players.
Cops vs Mafia
Freecops vs Experiencd players
Players vs Admins

Just to name a few things. The world is not black and white, and this is what we try to get in to the server as well.
There for the idea of having some non-admin, non-high-level but experienced and interested players giving suggestions and feeling free to advise on what they experience is not a bad one.

What we would need to avoid there, and I think you will agree, is to make people believe they can change Argonath in to a direction that the owners have decided against. Our community is still growing, and while we do lose players over our ideas, we also attract many new ones. Those that are lost often keep lurking and we know more than a few who have returned under a different name, anonymous for most but not for the owners.

Those that are lost often have reached a level where they feel uncomfortable being on a server with inexperienced players, and would prefer the community to have a more closed character. Others feel that their experience makes them entitled to priviledges. We understand that for them playing on a less populated server with a low influx of new members can be interesting. However the servers we offer for special purposes are all but forgotten.

Argonath has from its conception strived to be a breeding ground for those players who might not fully know the concept of RP and need some instruction, but are losing interest in the pointless shooting they did before.
To this we add the people who feel that RP should be based on imagination and freedom, and not the strict harness often sold as 'good' RP. To this we add one very important component, our admin team.

In spite of the often heard complaints, we can still say our admin team is among the best and most efficient of all servers. In the past month they have banned over 1.500 people, and that does not include tempbans and kicks.
And within these bans only a very small percentage has to be found too strict, and actually none have been unfounded for other reason than mistaken ID. And do not forget that our admin team are all unpaid volunteers, who give up their time of enjoyment to respond to the multiple reports and PM's they receive. Most of them find it hard at busy times to enjoy themselves, as they are either bombarded by players who feel punished unfairly, or those who feel their complaints shoud have been handled with preference. In between this they have to check new players, handle reportsand remember their rules and guidelines. It is a job that only those who have experienced it can tell the hardship of. Unfortunately, admin levels are often seen as status instead of a contributing role, especially by those who wish to have status. Those who are falling out of the team often do because they use their rights as status to show they are above regular players. Only the best people can remain fair to all under this enormous pressure, and many have become inactive as a result.

We hope to see you back at the time of your choosing, and hope to have changed for the better, yet remained the same.

[Oliver]

FRANK MAKE HED HURT! OLIVER SMASH!


But seriously, Argonath RPG just lost 2 GREAT roleplayers and I'm really sad to see this. Good luck with whatever you're planning to do Frank and Mario and I hope I'll be around when you return.

[Lamar Diasso]

Good bye Frank!
Will miss you a lot, just as many others will.
I do not have much to add - just that I hope I will keep playing 2010.
First time I met you was in June, 2008, when I was only a month old(Niko_Walker). I was working for you when I had a bad economy. -(minus)$2,000.00 in cash. Then I started to work for you, good income. I remember the sunny days, when everybody was there at GS9. Though then, you was going under the name Frank_Hobo, not with the [RI] tag, but you were still the leader of RI. I bought my first car. The Windsor, and I was so happy. I told you that then. Jack Stracci used to come by with his black Freeway he had THEN.

Anyway, you inspired me.
I want you to know that you've been an idol for me all the time.
Hope to see you in 2010, though will be quite busy then. Will spend the most of my time with my A-Tractor(?), google "A-Traktor".

GOOD BYE!
Will hopefully come to the parade, though I kind of work as a taxi among the teenagers with my new moped/"enpetare". But I will have some freetime then.

[Frederick]

Sad to see such a well respected guy taking a leave.  At least you're only leaving temporarily, and will be back in 2010.  I'm glad for that. 

I think I speak for everyone when I say we wish you all the best, and hope to see you next year.  Thanks for all the help you've provided to the server, and you're definately an admirable, well respected player of this community.

[The_Wolf]

I'm very disappointed from your abruptly departure from the ArgonathRPG community.
It is indeed confirmed that you have given a significant contribution to the SA:MP server and the community itself (in the manners mentioned in your first post).
I am still not aware of the reason for your leaving, however, I hope you return soon and wish you best of luck in your new undertakings!

Be certain that you shall not be forgotten!

[Alsatian]

You will be missed, Frank. Stay safe, and good luck with what's next for you! 

[Frank_Hawk]

Gandalf,

Thank you for contributing towards this topic. Your view is not only welcome by me, but by the entire community. All reading your post will be intrigued to understand your founded, solidified view and the vision the high level administration feel we should pursue.  
First of all, before I respond to your post, I would like to take this opportunity to clarify that I’m not leaving Argonath due to any ill-fated purpose. The servers high level administration has been most helpful of my development and I’m grateful to them for providing me with countless hours of entertainment.  I unfortunately, as Gandalf and many other older players can understand am tied down by commitments which restrict my involvement and my commitment to our community. The closure of Rage Incorporated [RI] and its subsidiaries Rage Incorporated Weaponry [RIw], Rage Incorporated Oil [RIo] and Rage Incorporated Taxi Company [RItc] was due to our commitment to retain Rage Incorporated [RI] as the most prestigious and influential RP group within Argonath. I hope this appreciated and encouraged by all.

Secondly, I would also like to apologise for my use of language - and hope Gandalf, can take it in his stride to decipher my view into a manageable digestible form of English. I would be also appreciating if others would engage in this conversation if appropriate and if they are able to provide constructive views rather than engaging with hostile intent towards others.

Building upon our past conversations Gandalf, I have been inspired to drive forward our initiatives, and have done so over the past four months. Whilst driving forward these initiatives, I have found loop holes that have been exploited and encouraged as common practise. I will be happy to take this discussion offline but I will be happy to expand on my brief explanations in my previous post.

We know and agree that imagination is the key to role-playing and that the foundations of inspiring others to develop are built upon this complex yet simple principle.  The mentalities of particular groups being against each other are due to competition and status as being powerful, overwhelming and dominant.  For example the issue of Cops Vs the Mafia is a common ground where two powerful and closely orientated RP groups clashing brings. It’s a clash of principles and there is a low level of tolerance being demonstrated by the two groups on occasions. I believe the clash of Freecops Vs Experienced players is brought on, as a sense of insecurity from regular players. From my own recollection and evidence, I have found that it is the new players who are willing to learn and be nurtured; however the consensus among new players is that they should not be nurtured as they once were. I’m not sure why this is the case, perhaps it comes down to status or dignity however – all players should be reminded that we were all once new and still are learning today. There is no such thing as the perfect or best RPer – there is only a good contributor towards our community and that is what we must remember, support and nurture.

In relations to Players Vs Admins, this is without a doubt a huge constraint which is discouraging to those involved and mind-bending to those who are affected. I also agree with you to that fact that being a low level administrator is seen as a status symbol and that it is something that others aspire to. People will engage in inappropriate activity in order to gain recognition and will persistently act as trolls in order to obtain this highly regarded status. As we discussed there is an element and a small number of people in the server who refuse to become low level administrators such as Joey_DeRossi as they would rather be focussed on RPing rather than the high level aspect of managing the server’s issue.  These people should be commended and singled out to the respect, that these people represent the engine room of our community and without them, significant disruptions will occur.

In my view, and through the observations I’ve carried out – The Quality Assurance committee will be represented by the most influential people in Argonath, who are appointed by the community and represent the unspoken RPers – who simply want to RP and address concerns where appropriate. The QA committee will sit in between the low level administrators and the high level administrators and provide constructive views in relations to consistency and to introduce further governance to enforce upon the low level administration subject to high level administration approval. This will allow for all players within Argonath to voice their view through a constructive scheme, rather than erupting violently on the forums are we have seen in the past. The QA committee will be considered administrators, in their own right but will not retain server administration rights. This will help us to distinguish the cultural divisions among our rich level of RPers and supporters.

We without a doubt have a diverse community, which has a broad range of age groups and different cultural approaches. The administration has attempted to be tolerant, and have succeeded to a certain degree. It is now the responsibility of our new era of RPers, to highlight areas of concern and to take them forward - We are all responsible for this.

I also believe you have highlighted a very sensitive and unspoken point which signifies a lot of ill feelings around Argonath. This is orientated around the labelling of low level administrators who are seen to have a sense of status, power and where appropriate respect. Whilst many processes are in place to monitor our low level administration, there is no process to directly monitor them. I believe the QA committee will address this concern and provide justification where malpractice is displayed or demonstrated. For instance, I can draw you to one level of status and power, where low level administrators have highlighted their weakness of identifying and addressing.

When a new player is flooding, flaming, attacking (DMing), destroying, flooding in /p – there is almost in many cases a very good reason for doing so. Many new people are regrettably scammed, cheated and killed inappropriately. Many ask for help on /p only to be ignored, therefore they act in accordance with that by typing in capitals, or by attempting to gain attention by rule breaking. For example, when a player flames the server or community – they are instantly kicked. Surely we should be gaining input from these players, as many of them have burning concerns which we could benefit from. I hope you consider highlighting this to your administration team, and if appropriate in your view enforce that players are not kicked for doing the above and instead asked how our processes or approach can be improved.

Retention is without a key to sustaining our player base. It’s important we offer our RPers something interesting to do and offer a huge variety of scenarios. Whilst this may be up to our people to create, I believe the administration team should open endorsed positions, where talented RPers would be appreciated. For example, a business which is monitored by the high level administration would be useful for talented RPers to apply to and would serve as a development hub for new players as Rage Incorporated [RI] once did. This concept proved popular and evidently created many to create innovative ideas – This will allow the people and high level administration to work together and form a stronger relationship within our evolving community.

Building upon your view on the orientation of serving as a breeding ground, I support this idea – but I believe it’s key to identify key resources to helping our new players develop in a sustainable way and a financial incentive should be offered to people willing to teach new players well. This can be tweaked to accommodate existing people however buy in across Argonath will be important to making this work.

Despite my lack of confidence in some low level administrators, I have the utmost confidence in the high level administration and know that convincingly as afterall I’m a produce of your creativity within our community. With this said, I also believe that the measures we have in place are well directed towards fulfilling our purpose. Despite all of the above, it’s important we continue to instil a measure of consistency and fairness to all of our people and ensure that we continue being tolerant towards our new people and convincing towards our existing people.

I hope I have not garbled on too much and apologise for going off-topic. I sincerely appreciate your view and your enduring commitment to addressing our concerns and areas of improvement with such vigour which should serve as leverage to others willing to help our community grow organically.  

[Violet]

A visionary for the roleplay of Argonath. During your brief hiatus, GS9 was never the same. I hope to be around in a years time still in Corleone, and all the things that you have told me, I have not forgotten them, nor will I reveal them to anyone. Enjoy the time off from the game, I know its hard for you to mix Argonath with your work commitments, but you took the right move. I will be there to commemorate your departure, and I always have been there when you needed assistance with anything, you did some very honourable things which I am sure many members of the community are glad you undertook, including myself. I appreciate the advice you gave to me, and take it on board. You belong to the group of outstanding roleplayers of Argonath (I'd say theres around 20-25 of them on the whole server), and look forward to welcoming you back in 2010.

Farewell for now,
Violet Corleone.

[Julian]

See ya, I guess. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[Unmountable]

Cya Frank. Stay strong. And i hope to see you back.

[Joey_DeRossi]

The best role-player and probably the most polite/correct person of Argonath.

A man of word, loyal, kind, always speaks the truth(even if it hurts) and a true mentor.
I thank you for everything.

A big future you'll have.



Sincerely,
DeRossi.

One for you buddy,
[yt=425,350][/yt]

[8793574]

I missed Rage Inc , anyway good luck Frank

[Jserg]

Have fun Frank. see ya next year

[Proxan]

Some pics from yesterday...hope you like them Frank...

They sure do bring back some good ol' memories, atleast for me