Clarification (Contains harsh wording) (not for the weak minded)

[BlackBird]

I have played on Argonath since early 2007 (don't let my forum account registration fool you) I watched Argonath grow from it's opening days to what it is today, i was one of few admins on MTA:VC for quite some time, and i was there when SA:MP first opened. I make this topic to address the SA:MP community as it is the one giving the most problems as of late.
Today I make this topic to comment on certain topics regarding the hard working administration, developers, and owners, for whom i have great respect for (contrary to popular belief).

As of late I find myself wishing argonath was as it was in the old days, yet as much as i wish it to happen i know it will never be the same.
I see many of the players on the forums wishing SAMP to go back to RS1 or even RS2, who where not even here at the time they were around. Few players from RS1 and 2 are still even around to voice there op pinions on what argonath has become.
By this point you most likely view this as moaning and if so i will ask you to stop reading and not reply, as you are clearly incapable of understanding why I, of all people, am making this topic.

Allow me to explain the differences of rs1-2 and now.

RS1-2 was a great accomplishment of argonath, SAMP had just came out and marked a new era of gaming for argonath, everyone in the community was excited about the grand opening, and supported argonath even getting a server.
We never expected that it would become as big as it did, and we didn't care at that point, we didn't even care if it had fancy scripts, at that point most of us played MTA:VC and grew up on argonath using only a /me command that we made the best of and enjoyed. majority of us still played MTA but we also enjoyed SAMP as it was still the strong community that was forged through friendship and understanding.

Criminals Back then overcame obstacles and were always trying new stuff. Cop groups were rampant prior to ARPD's founding, and they weren't frowned upon by other cops with the "Fuck off your not official" attitude. Criminals didn't need validations or a admin to supervise there every move as it was understood that moaning on either sides would get both in trouble so they found ways to be enemies without bringing admins into it (majority of the time). Criminals never complained about the unfairness back then because they were able to work as a team or be creative to overcome obstacles.
Admins were less harsh as there was rarely anything to be harsh about, there was a understanding between everyone that this was fun for everyone, including admins. The owners came IG under there real names to RP without having to be concerned about moaners spamming main chat, or there pm about some stupid little problem.

Then came the new era of argonath, new great scripts came, and a new group of players. The community of argonath changed with it's new players and new scripts, which of course forced the admins to become more strict. New developers, new admins, new players, and a for the most part overall new community.
The new era of players in argonath made for some great rp situations, but the new generation grew up on a different form of rp.
With the seperation in generations on argonath thus the moaning begins, the old school argonath players (most developers included) want argonath to remain the way it is, and the new players who now currently make up majority of argonath want the server to adapt to there wants and expectations. The old school players constantly trying to explain to the new players that this is what argonath stands for, have been at a ever growing conflict with the new players about how argonath should be. This led to more problems such as criminals (again now mostly made up of new players) being angry about not having script support and cops having script support.
Players now demand a script to support every aspect of rp that in the old days would just be rped with /me (for example the current drug script)



So with that said, do you think this current community would survive one second on the old scripts without eating itself inside out?
You think the moaning is bad now, look at the differences.
Cops had more then a unfair advantage over the criminals.
Script support was minimal as far as RP at that point only /me /l /s /w and /ad existed.
The Scripts were constantly unstable compared to todays (you think it's bad with todays scripts?)


As stated before if you choose to percieve this as moaning, feel free to excuse yourself from this topic as you are clearly unable to comprehend the reasoning behind this topic.

[Aksel]

I wish I were able to roleplay an FBI agent without getting suspected for "impersonating".
Well said, Phoenix.

[supermanmk]

I have heard a lot about this and i think i understand you. I myself have never seen the rs1 and 2 ive been on argonath for a year and 1 month. With the server growing admins had to go strict and all it changed because well i dont know maybe because there were more people more new players that saw something like argonath for the first time i like argonath and i think you dont need the rs1 and 2 to have fun just have fun like you did and remember its just a game a place where we go in free time to have fun and be something that we are not in the real world.

[BlackBird]

I have heard a lot about this and i think i understand you. I myself have never seen the rs1 and 2 ive been on argonath for a year and 1 month. With the server growing admins had to go strict and all it changed because well i dont know maybe because there were more people more new players that saw something like argonath for the first time i like argonath and i think you dont need the rs1 and 2 to have fun just have fun like you did and remember its just a game a place where we go in free time to have fun and be something that we are not in the real world.

Thats exactly the point behind this topic, not necessarily to completely stop the moaning because theres always gonna be some jackass unsatisfied with the current situation, but to rebuild that understanding between players and administration.
I'm not gonna lie, there were loads of moaners in the old days, but they kept it to a minimum out of respect for the server, because they had fun playing here regardless.
Post Merge: May 11, 2010, 12:43:52 ami forgot to add btw
everyone wonders why im such a dick all the time, this is the exact reason, the few people i actually respect still have this understanding.
Sure I've had my difficulties with admins and the owners before, take my situation with cbf roughly a year and a half ago, me and him didn't quite see eye to eye on certain situations, and i ended up getting banned from forum and games.
After a extended conversation with him on msn me and him have actually quite a large understanding of each other, and discovered we both play argonath for similar reasons.

[supermanmk]

Thats exactly the point behind this topic, not necessarily to completely stop the moaning because theres always gonna be some jackass unsatisfied with the current situation, but to rebuild that understanding between players and administration.
I'm not gonna lie, there were loads of moaners in the old days, but they kept it to a minimum out of respect for the server, because they had fun playing here regardless.

Yes and with the player number increasing i guess that there are more moaners there will always be someone that moans and is not satisfied for some reason. But i think by spending more time on argo with time rulebreakers gain more experience and eventually stop doing it.

[Mikro]

Did I heard there the word respect?? Yes RESPECT! That is what I am missing. There should be a basic respect for EVERY player, even when it's your greatest enemy. Respect the other as a person, not as a stupid character. Respect the other as a human. Also there should, indeed, be more respect for the ones that made this all possible. The owners, developers, scripters, managers and admins.

Damn, I just wanted to answer quick on this topic and go to sleep.. I support and understand fully what you said Blackbird. I just gave an answer on a part of your post in an other topic.. And I will not write that again. 

+1 respect on top of the basic respect and the extra respect you already earned.

[ScottKenney]

Respect man. Really explains some good stuff everyone needs to hear.

[Stanley_Taylor]

You're very truthful in this topic and I respect that. But frankly, there are also oldskool players who say the same like you, about how it would be great to go back to the first version and at the same time support new scripts that benefit their own role play. This kind of hypocritical behavior has been going on forever since I joined Argonath. I know you don't, you're one of the rare exceptions. Pitty you didn't label them as a group.
I'm part of that 'new group of players who moan', I guess. I understand everyone's opinion about this, I've talked many times about this subject with players. Argonath has grown so big and with the rules applied; Do not force role play, metagaming and powergaming allowed, you can role play whatever and however. Therefor nobody is forced to use new scripts.
This is why I support new scripts. This is what keeps a large part of the community happy and at the end of the day...everybody will use them, including you.

[Xander]

Well said man. I agree 100 percent. I recommend many people to read this carefully.

[Boxy]

It's the scripts that brought a good part of the change.  More complicated items= more complicated situations= players adapted to more complicated stuff.  The new complicated items required caution to get(license, money, drugs, ranks), and therefore a caution to keep. 

[BlackBird]

This is one of the few topics that i hope at least makes a difference in some players attitude ig and on the forums.
Thanks to everyone who Understands

I Think one of the issues is that some players think the owners are afraid of change, that's not the case.
TBH if they feared change im pretty sure SAMP wouldn't exist and would have gone under when MTA got shutdown.
There concern is that there vision for there community is going to be changed.
Theres a limit to how much can be changed before argonath is like every other server, I'm pretty sure this is one of the problems players have issues understanding.

[Pandalink]

Sorry if this post doesn't make much sense, I'm up at 3:45am for no particular reason.

The main change from the older times (also the start of RS3) is what I always say:
In the past, the admins helped the players with rules as guidelines.
In the present, the admins enforce the rules at any cost to the players.

Teleports used to be given for people who were stranded, whereas now admins just shrug it off and tell them to call a taxi, which they've probably already been doing for an hour. Players used to actually play the game with the admins, who had the power to keep the server going well and allow players to enjoy it - but they could use this power how they saw fit and it worked so much better.
Increasing reliance on a "by the book" approach has kicked out a lot of the best admins, and replaced a few of them with what can only be described as robots. They won't hear your explanation, or why it was only slight break on the rules with no victims at all. You broke the rules sir, and you're going to be kicked!
If it were real life you wouldn't expect the police to arrest you for an extroadinarily minor offence. I can't actually think of a good example from the law though, since for the most part thats there to help people, so only a few minor victimless ways to break the law exist. I don't feel the rules serve that purpose as much as they used to. They now act as a hindrance more than necessary, to people who mean no harm and with no devious intentions. Like the SAPD law is constantly added to in order to create new ways to suspect random citizens and for no other reason, admins enforce rules for no real reason other than "its the rules". This is not how it once was. Perhaps the main admins look upon that period as a "bad" one, but most others remember it fondly.
As for totally following the rules to the letter (at any cost to fun and enjoyment).. I'm not saying thats not a direction that one could take with an admin team.
I'm just saying I outright disagree with it.

[rJCaiG]

All hail 2007ers!!!!!

[hell1989]

I joined as well in 2007..march to be exact..it was way different..I could RP a swat captain and command new players and others to going RP raids against the first mafia on server..yes things have changed, admins too fast to ban, have taken this server way too seriously.

[rJCaiG]

I joined as well in 2007..march to be exact..it was way different..I could RP a swat captain and command new players and others to going RP raids against the first mafia on server..yes things have changed, admins too fast to ban, have taken this server way too seriously.

same bro!
march '07 represent