In character and Out of character discussion

[Void]

Now, I cannot deny IC OOC because it's not im my right to forbid it, however. When you guys force or "This is essential for roleplaying" IC OOC at an new player, you are just doing it wRONg. Stop copy-cat other servers. IF you are helping an new player. Do not tell anything about OOC IC or such bullshit unless they ask specifically about it. And even if you should happen to teach it, do not say it's an requriement to Roleplay on Argonath, because that's just stupid and you are effectivly playing an owner when you are not one of the owners.

So if someone says IC/OOC is essential in better understanding he copies another server. The term is copied all around RP servers, so I ask you, who copies who then?Its inevitable form Argonath to root it out.As long as there are fresh minds coming who respect that way of playing.
Use it, I encourage you.Just don't use it against others or in your own defining way.

I am used to "mang, /me and public chat" kind of role play, and its all I need, as also the srs RP with extra commands and IC/OOC.You just need to browse around internet, learn a few terms of RP and find what suits you the best.

[Gird3r]

So if someone says IC/OOC is essential in better understanding he copies another server. The term is copied all around RP servers, so I ask you, who copies who then?Its inevitable form Argonath to root it out.As long as there are fresh minds coming who respect that way of playing.
Use it, I encourage you.Just don't use it against others or in your own defining way.

I am used to "mang, /me and public chat" kind of role play, and its all I need, as also the srs RP with extra commands and IC/OOC.You just need to browse around internet, learn a few terms of RP and find what suits you the best.

Who is copying who, that is an good argument and question. Wich I cannot answer since there's plenty on Roleplay servers in sa:mp.
I would still not encourage the use of IC OOC, sorry, but no.

I got /me, public chat (And Localchat, wich I approve of but only because mainchat would be flooded) /jail /su and TAB to check who's wanted. Nothing more I need.

IC OOC can be desribed as being copied from other server(S), but we also have the problem then of what server introduced the terms.

Anyways, I'd still not say to an new player "Hey, IC OOC is an requirement to roleplay". I won't tell name and shame, but I have had players trying to force me to IC and OOC, funny enough, they seem to not be able to seperate what's RP and normal chatting/discussing.

In my eyes, IC and OOC is just giving the RP and normal chatting/Discussing an dinstict tag around it, not to mention that some people think it's fine to swear as much as they want in "IC", that I do not agree on.

To ends meet, I like your argumenting style and kindness in the discussing, truly remarkable. 

[Void]

Who is copying who, that is an good argument and question. Wich I cannot answer since there's plenty on Roleplay servers in sa:mp.
I would still not encourage the use of IC OOC, sorry, but no.

I got /me, public chat (And Localchat, wich I approve of but only because mainchat would be flooded) /jail /su and TAB to check who's wanted. Nothing more I need.

IC OOC can be desribed as being copied from other server(S), but we also have the problem then of what server introduced the terms.

Anyways, I'd still not say to an new player "Hey, IC OOC is an requirement to roleplay". I won't tell name and shame, but I have had players trying to force me to IC and OOC, funny enough, they seem to not be able to seperate what's RP and normal chatting/discussing.

In my eyes, IC and OOC is just giving the RP and normal chatting/Discussing an dinstict tag around it, not to mention that some people think it's fine to swear as much as they want in "IC", that I do not agree on.

To ends meet, I like your argumenting style and kindness in the discussing, truly remarkable. 

I would throw out /su (But that's another discussion I do not want to engage in)
The point is, I never saw a prson saying "Hey, use IC/OOC" to a new player that has just arrived ... I think we are all able to understand this:

/l lolololo I farted and now it smells trololo
and
/l hurry up there man, the cops are after us.

You can clearly see IC and OOC, without the brackets, but, if I use slang, and we are in the center of an important RP, I , as my mates too will use OOC/IC just to clarify/differ
internet slang and gang slang we use

[Simon_B]

Really? I tested other roleplay servers also... Minimum, what I experienced - no any help or even a possibility to get a help...
And as far as I could see - they even ban for saying "Hello" in main chat... 
Others just disallow the main chat and you experience the boredom driving around, seeing nobody and being confused with the amount of players the server shows, when around you - no any soul and only 20 players silently sit at Pershing Square...

Some servers does helps but its not alot tho, there is some servers that are so selfish that they just nearly bans you if you didnt even checked their forums before connecting to their game because you must know everything and such..
But hopefully we'll change our way to react against new players that everything i can say about this.

[Aragorn]

You can clearly see IC and OOC, without the brackets, but, if I use slang, and we are in the center of an important RP, I , as my mates too will use OOC/IC just to clarify/differ
internet slang and gang slang we use

No way you can just swear on Argonath and then demand "Hey! That was IC!"... If the player was offended by your swearing - drop it, apologize and continue play... Otherwise its from the same as "I did not swear I just told the truth" stories...

I am used to "mang, /me and public chat" kind of role play, and its all I need, as also the srs RP with extra commands and IC/OOC.

Then strange that you are here on Argonath... I do not remember any of the owners announcing Argonath as a SRS RP server... Opposite, we never supported such style and did not find an exact fun in it...
Even more... Old gamers and admins (as scripters team as well) remember my policy - less rules as possible, less scripts as possible... There are main rules, that was enough for Argonath to chill around and having fun...

More rules turned Argonath into endless courtcase, who is right and who is wrong...

In one part there is owners'mistake... But it also shows: too much script commands - too much rules appear - too much moaning - too much fights - too much shit - lack of fun...

[Ben.]

Really? I tested other roleplay servers also... Minimum, what I experienced - no any help or even a possibility to get a help...
And as far as I could see - they even ban for saying "Hello" in main chat... 
Others just disallow the main chat and you experience the boredom driving around, seeing nobody and being confused with the amount of players the server shows, when around you - no any soul and only 20 players silently sit at Pershing Square...

Funny, I co-owned an RP server once and we never got any of what you just described it wasn't like super strict, but more like argonath, even though the owner wanted a serious RP server (I always prefer RP, but with OOC as well)
You would have in main chat, "Joe_Bloggs, want to RP at *wherever*?" and they would roleplay, but you would also have the RP's like the police and criminals, which was also quite good

But then the owner changed the script, and lots of people left xD

[Void]

No way you can just swear on Argonath and then demand "Hey! That was IC!"... If the player was offended by your swearing - drop it, apologize and continue play... Otherwise its from the same as "I did not swear I just told the truth" stories...

Then strange that you are here on Argonath... I do not remember any of the owners announcing Argonath as a SRS RP server... Opposite, we never supported such style and did not find an exact fun in it...
Even more... Old gamers and admins (as scripters team as well) remember my policy - less rules as possible, less scripts as possible... There are main rules, that was enough for Argonath to chill around and having fun...

More rules turned Argonath into endless courtcase, who is right and who is wrong...

In one part there is owners'mistake... But it also shows: too much script commands - too much rules appear - too much moaning - too much fights - too much shit - lack of fun...

I got spoiled by too much command.Its all about imagination. On another server back in VC we used to order drugs through public chat or simple /me picks up the phone and calls XXXX. Drugs weren't yet implemeted but we had a lot of fun anyways, RPing the scenario.

If a player gets offended, I immediately apologize, but if he continues to swear in slang of course, I take it as he wants to proceed with the situation and finds it intriguing.
No harm done both ways.

Yes, I see. You never declared Argonath as a SRS server, but yet players shaped the way Argonath is today. Players added IC/OOC as a standard or more commands as a standard. It is how it goes, with more SA:MP update comes more possibilities and varieties to push some limits. Scripts replaced good old imagination. Owners did not request all those commands in SA:MP Ideas board, players did.The exact players that are either unexprienced or play SRS.

[Aragorn]

It looks like parasites then... From one RPG servers coming to other RPG servers and implementing the same what was on previous... Why in the name of Hell? Just go and OOC/IC as much as you want...

I do not know how to explain people that for roleplay there is no need in a dumb OOC/IC rules... And yeah, I do consider it as a some sort of shit which has nothing to GTA...

And I also consider this OOC/IC thingy just losing many new players...
There is a car, there is a gun, there is a skin, there are houses, jobs, business, admins... All what you need...

All add-ons like non-freecops, non-main chat and OOC/IC just to put on your necks a lable "ZOMG-RPer"...

Its easy to "identify"... Used OOC/IC? Wow, roleplayer... Did not use? A piece of shit...

And if no difference? Then why the fuck you need this identification?

I also do not see a problem the player mixed your " RL going to pee" with the roleplay... The fun is coming where from? From comparison of real life and game...

And one more... You cannot put EVERYTHING under the rule of OOC/IC... Then whats the point of such rule?

As for my point of view - the rule of OOC/IC came from admins of some server... To have more reasons to ban people for... Because there can be different variations of both sides... Nice rule to use against those whom admins do not like...

And all others like monkeys carried the idea, and even came to our Far away Planet...

But we can also answer the same way - we will just disallow this usage not to confuse players... And then lets see who can roleplay and who cannot...

[Void]

It looks like parasites then... From one RPG servers coming to other RPG servers and implementing the same what was on previous... Why in the name of Hell? Just go and OOC/IC as much as you want...

I do not know how to explain people that for roleplay there is no need in a dumb OOC/IC rules... And yeah, I do consider it as a some sort of shit which has nothing to GTA...

And I also consider this OOC/IC thingy just losing many new players...
There is a car, there is a gun, there is a skin, there are houses, jobs, business, admins... All what you need...

All add-ons like non-freecops, non-main chat and OOC/IC just to put on your necks a lable "ZOMG-RPer"...

Its easy to "identify"... Used OOC/IC? Wow, roleplayer... Did not use? A piece of shit...

And if no difference? Then why the f**k you need this identification?

I also do not see a problem the player mixed your " RL going to pee" with the roleplay... The fun is coming where from? From comparison of real life and game...

And one more... You cannot put EVERYTHING under the rule of OOC/IC... Then whats the point of such rule?

As for my point of view - the rule of OOC/IC came from admins of some server... To have more reasons to ban people for... Because there can be different variations of both sides... Nice rule to use against those whom admins do not like...

And all others like monkeys carried the idea, and even came to our Far away Planet...

But we can also answer the same way - we will just disallow this usage not to confuse players... And then lets see who can roleplay and who cannot...

1) Propositions have nothing to do with MOANING  regarding RP

2) The problem continues when the FORCING OOC/IC begins.Something a ROLE PLAYER would not do, then a misguided wannabe pretender RPer

3) ROLE-PLAY does not have L33TSRS and BADZOMG. YOU rp how YOU want, de gustibus non est disputandum !

4) OOC/IC in fact brings player because many of them have the perception of ZOMGRP as in constant usage of OOC/IC, so they think this is l33t server, while in fact its not OBLIGATORY to use OOC/IC

5) You can use /piss for example so if you say, "I need to piss" another player will say: "Wtf interrupting RP" ...

6) Who said everything goes under OOC/IC for god sakes, I said, if a player uses brackets, why don't you simply coop or don't use brackets, rather then pointing finger "ZOMGRPer". It would turn into a witch hunt eventually, and players are forced to lave or simply leave in an act of moaning "This server sucks" ....

7) With that attitude you can just scare them away. Calling them parasites and classifying them with names while this is INTERNET.A place with lots of imagination. They just cannot drop they're way of RP. If only people were TOLERANT, and that's the gap to success


Apologies for the red font. I need to point out my opinion so it doesn't get interpreted in other ways, preventing wars or something.

[9r2e5i3k]

4) OOC/IC in fact brings player because many of them have the perception of ZOMGRP as in constant usage of OOC/IC, so they think this is l33t server, while in fact its not OBLIGATORY to use OOC/IC

See? You're doing it again. You're expecting new players to be already role-players with experience.

Argonath is about getting new players (as in: unexperienced - as in: never played RPG in GTA, or even GTA multiplayer before). At least it used to be...

imagination.

> talking about players that can't/don't want to play by rules other than they have learned already

6) Who said everything goes under OOC/IC for god sakes, I said, if a player uses brackets, why don't you simply coop or don't use brackets, rather then pointing finger "ZOMGRPer". It would turn into a witch hunt eventually, and players are forced to lave or simply leave in an act of moaning "This server sucks" ....

Because just dropping whole IC/OOC is not possible to do.

[Wash]

1) Propositions have nothing to do with MOANING  regarding RP

2) The problem continues when the FORCING OOC/IC begins.Something a ROLE PLAYER would not do, then a misguided wannabe pretender RPer

3) ROLE-PLAY does not have L33TSRS and BADZOMG. YOU rp how YOU want, de gustibus non est disputandum !

4) OOC/IC in fact brings player because many of them have the perception of ZOMGRP as in constant usage of OOC/IC, so they think this is l33t server, while in fact its not OBLIGATORY to use OOC/IC

5) You can use /piss for example so if you say, "I need to piss" another player will say: "Wtf interrupting RP" ...

6) Who said everything goes under OOC/IC for god sakes, I said, if a player uses brackets, why don't you simply coop or don't use brackets, rather then pointing finger "ZOMGRPer". It would turn into a witch hunt eventually, and players are forced to lave or simply leave in an act of moaning "This server sucks" ....

7) With that attitude you can just scare them away. Calling them parasites and classifying them with names while this is INTERNET.A place with lots of imagination. They just cannot drop they're way of RP. If only people were TOLERANT, and that's the gap to success


Apologies for the red font. I need to point out my opinion so it doesn't get interpreted in other ways, preventing wars or something.

meh IC/OOC sucks

I used to use it but I realise there isn't much point to it. It doesn't take an IQ of over 9000 to realise when someone is playing around and when someone is trying to rp something.

[Void]

2) The problem continues when the FORCING OOC/IC begins.Something a ROLE PLAYER would not do, then a misguided wannabe pretender RPer

3) ROLE-PLAY does not have L33TSRS and BADZOMG. YOU rp how YOU want, de gustibus non est disputandum !

Quoting my previous post.
@Grzesiek: You cannot expect everyone to be inexperienced. We get all sorts of players.
Imagination =/= rules. No boundaries. Rules are respected depending on the player.

@Wash: o/

[Gandalf]

If you want to know from where comes IC and OOC, I can tell you.
In the end of 2006 we started preparing to open our SA:MP server, which opned in february 2007. As I was new in PAWNO, we checked out various servers, and checked out if there was any RP script around to start the work from there.
At the time the only free released RP script was PEN1 (Public Enemy Number One), which was released as the server owner and the scripter parted ways and stopped working. This script was the base for the Godfather script and all clones, and was the base for the first Argonath scripts.
In this script local chat was not named, but public chat was called as OOC. We changed this to Public chat, as the IC/OOC concept was not inside our style.
This script also had wanted levels (which we removed as our experience with abuse), the famous Mole missions, and had buying materials to produce products for shops... actually most things people still use or ask for today.
First I tried to adapt the script to Argonath style, then found it took too much effort, so I just took a number of basics that were useful and rewrote the rest. Once finished, we had enough experience to build a completely own script, as we still do today.

So if you want to know where those server got it... from the same source we started scripting with in 2006. As we are still one of the few servers who can actually make a fully own script, most servers take the scripts with IC/OOC and use them as it is... making more and more people think it is RP as it should be.

Our view on IC/OOC has always been the same... it is to hide RL flaming by naming it IC, and to force people in to playing rather than using brains...

[9r2e5i3k]

@Grzesiek: You cannot expect everyone to be inexperienced. We get all sorts of players.
Imagination =/= rules. No boundaries. Don't include me in that circle.

No, but everyone joining Argonath should play by Argonath rules, not by their own habits.

If you join a new server, you should learn the rules from the start, not assume "oh this is RPG too so rules are same ))"

[Aragorn]

Void you should understand the statement of Grzesiek and ours...
The thing is OOC/IC is a strict rule on other servers... And you bring it here calling it "Style"...

It is NOT a style, it is a rule... It is the same as we will go on their servers and will start using public chat for talking and jokes on server... They will ban us faster then we ban cheaters at their spawn positions...

By bringing this rule to our server and using it in play with others you actually provide the rule from other servers on our...

Read also Gandalf's post... When players just started demanding this rule on our server, we asked them to show the point... When they "showed", we asked them "why do server with public and local chat needs OOC/IC shit?"...

It is out of logic, not needed at all, and came from those who have no idea how to get rid of boredom...