Is the Argonath Vision blurred? Do we need glasses?

[Deam]

Yes all citizens of argonath.. corleones, straccies, araatus..etc can go and protest with using m4 and combat shotgun 


there are no citizens, because 90% of the times the people starts to evade, when they have to pay 200$ ticket...

And tell me who is crying for SAPD investigation always.... you, the citizens.. you make all differences between us and the ARPD cops. Curse, if you are still threated bad as ARPD cop.. maybe search the fault in yourself.

about colours and smg... i dont care, even i would agree to remove the smg from sapd officers and give combat shotgun+heavy weapons to freecops. I would LOVE to see the out come.  :hurray:

again an outcry topic whats totally nonsense and rediclious

Ok, lets remove citizens and criminals. Argonath is about to be cop server... Cops can everything, others-nothing

[Squeak]

Apply for the SAPD and stop bitching because you're not getting script support for a nonofficial position.

[Nexxt]

Why do we need this topics, does anything change?
InfernalCurse, you should stop this in my opinion, it's really stupid and you say it's not a moan topic but basically you are moaning about not having a SMG as freecop.

All on a sneaky way...other topics do get removed for it.

[Kenny.]

but basically you are moaning about not having a SMG as freecop.

He wants to be a chief of something that is his ultimate goal, the SMG and script support is a by-product

[Julio.]

Why is this not implemented in game?

For example:
ARPD Officers not being given a SMG, which SAPD people get, even if most cool SAPD officers give there SMG anyway, it's still shows that ARPD Officers are being treated as second tier (especially with the names etc...).

It's always annoyed me, not just the above example but other elements.

I've also seen many other contradictions of the Argonath vision, this should really be in Speakerbox.


Notes:
This is not a moan topic, go elsewhere.
Argonath Vision : http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=38482.0

Notes:
This is not a moan topic, go elsewhere.
Argonath Vision : http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=38482.0

This is not a moan topic, go elsewhere.

not a moan topic

wat

[Ben.]

Erm, after reading this there is a few examples I have to give.

All people have equal rights, so let us give:
- All players the rights which admins have.
- All players have the same amount of money, and assets
- All players have the same amount of weed
- And, as suggested, give all cops SMG, or, to make it fairer, give every player an SMG
- Give everyone the commands for a hydra.

Communism? I think sometimes, people use the Argonath Vision as a step into something they wish to happen.

Players make themselves into something by how they portray themselves. ARPD can choose to apply to be SAPD Officers if they wish to, and one of the bonuses is the SMG. I mentioned communism earlier, so I shall explain. The idea of communism was good, but required a leader to put it into action. Communist idea gone, as there is a leader. Some leaders (not ours, just history facts) abused what they had, and some people abused what they had. Linking back into how it affects us, the majority of ARPD Officers on Argonath can be trusted, but there are always a few who ruin it for everybody else.
By joining the SAPD, players who will not abuse can be found, and given extra training. After the training, and their exam, they get the rank and SMG, if they pass of course. The SMG is very abusable, so by giving it to the ARPD, the potential for abuse is much higher.

Just picking one out the list now, every player should have admin rights. Of course this will not happen, as said before, there are minority of people who abuse commands. If this had been suggested, it would be chucked out fairly rapidly.

"All players have the same amount of money, and assets". This is implemented, at the start of your Argonath career. Remember when you joined? $10'000, and a skin all new players have. Maybe players who joined earlier received other things, but that is irrelevant for now. All players start equal, and what they choose to make of themselves is their own decision. We must remember that we were all new once, and had to make our reputations, buy our businesses etc.
We do not pick on people, and select only a few 'elite' players to be SAPD. Applications are kept open for all players, with some rules to make sure players with some experience apply (passport etc).

"Give everyone the commands for a hydra." An obvious one really. Abuse is the only thing you can really say to it, for some players. As on Argonath Stunt, the hydra was taken off the list through abuse by players.

The point I'm trying to make is, the Argonath Vision is not the full control of everything we do. All players start equal (apart from things like ping and time-zones), and have equal opportunities (bar variation as the amount of people increase) from the beginning. Some people applied to SAPD, others to criminal groups, and that is how it has been, certainly since I have been here.
The Argonath Vision should not be twisted in any way, shape or form, to argue for things that personally, I do not think the Argo Vision represents.
We have equality, but we also have stereotypes, like 'noob freecop', caused by a minority of players who ruin it for other people. The problem is, this minority of players is still there, which makes giving all an SMG is impractical and almost asking them to abuse. Five times at least, I have had ARPD Officers drive-by me, since the new ARPD/SAPD rules, and this is without them being given them. We have special rules for the SMG, which some ARPD Officers would not know. We can teach them, but the SAPD Academy drums this in to SAPD Cadets/Officers, which makes them trusted enough to have abusable weapons.

So I guess the Argonath Vision is blurred, and we need glasses, but players will have different views, so which one is correct?

Why do we need this topics, does anything change?
InfernalCurse, you should stop this in my opinion, it's really stupid and you say it's not a moan topic but basically you are moaning about not having a SMG as freecop.

All on a sneaky way...other topics do get removed for it.

This sums it up better than I put it! As I said about the Argonath Vision being twisted, please read the bit I have made bold on Nexxt's post. By putting it down as Argonath Vision, it looks less like a moan.
The bit i've put in italics cannot be faulted. It is definitely a moan topic, using bits of the Argonath Vision to cover it up.

[Julio.]

tl;dr

[Jubin]

Why do we need this topics, does anything change?
InfernalCurse, you should stop this in my opinion, it's really stupid and you say it's not a moan topic but basically you are moaning about not having a SMG as freecop.

All on a sneaky way...other topics do get removed for it.

Nexxt, you are focusing on the wrong aspect of what he is trying to get in here. He does not say that he wants SMG's for ARPD officers. Infernal's goal is for ARPD officers to have the same kind opportunities that SAPD officers have. Whether it be all cops to have 9mm's, deagles, SMG's, snipers or anything else.

Infernal like Argonath Vision is saying that all players should have the same kind of opportunities for role playing. Does not matter if you are new, regular or veteran player. But at the moment there is a discrimination as to become a SAPD officer you must have been played in Argonath for 7 days or more. Even greater is gap in FBI where you have to be at least  2 months old player to have a chance to get the same kind of role playing opportunities as FBI members do.Beside that SAPD in general is the only actual role playing group that has script help.

I saw some people pointing out in a sarcasm manner "let's give everybody admin rights then too", well Admin rights are not meant for role playing purposes and if it is used for that, then that is admin abuse and punishable.

These stated problems can be fixed and I am quite sure that RS5 will remove a lot of these aspects of SAMP that does not match with Argonath Vision.

[Kenny.]

Nexxt, you are focusing on the wrong aspect of what he is trying to get in here. He does not say that he wants SMG's for ARPD officers. Infernal's goal is for ARPD officers to have the same kind opportunities that SAPD officers have.

Infernal like Argonath Vision is saying that all players should have the same kind of opportunities for role playing.

Beside that SAPD in general is the only actual role playing group that has script help.

So if hes truly only wants to follow the vision and he is not biased as shit, why is his target only SAPD and not the FBI???
Did you know FBI have script support?? and takes longer to become an agent than it takes to become SAPD Senior Officer?

All he is here to badmouth SAPD for some reason, but hey like i said lets close down SAPD and we'll see what happens...maybe Infernal wouldnt be affected as he would be on duty as the new "chief" of freecops, but the criminals would be really hurt by what the outcome is when no officer is held by any regulations and will do anything anytime anywhere as long as they follow the server rules.

Lets give new players who just joined server and went to LSPD and typed /duty ability to spawn hydra and see what happens because hey we have to make all players equal right?

[Mikro]

Pure equality will never be reached. There is always an aspect that needs leadership or a side were people start with less then the higher people. The human wants to have power from its origin. So there is always something or someone needed with power to make the other people act normal and less directed towards the gaining of (more) power.

I think Argonath is already quite close to the best equality we can reach.

[BlackBird]

I think Argonath is already quite close to the best equality we can reach.

Actually it's strayed quite a bit from equality since RS1 and 2

[Kizzu]

Erm, after reading this there is a few examples I have to give.

All people have equal rights, so let us give:
- All players the rights which admins have.
- All players have the same amount of money, and assets
- All players have the same amount of weed
- And, as suggested, give all cops SMG, or, to make it fairer, give every player an SMG
- Give everyone the commands for a hydra.

Communism? I think sometimes, people use the Argonath Vision as a step into something they wish to happen.

Players make themselves into something by how they portray themselves. ARPD can choose to apply to be SAPD Officers if they wish to, and one of the bonuses is the SMG. I mentioned communism earlier, so I shall explain. The idea of communism was good, but required a leader to put it into action. Communist idea gone, as there is a leader. Some leaders (not ours, just history facts) abused what they had, and some people abused what they had. Linking back into how it affects us, the majority of ARPD Officers on Argonath can be trusted, but there are always a few who ruin it for everybody else.
By joining the SAPD, players who will not abuse can be found, and given extra training. After the training, and their exam, they get the rank and SMG, if they pass of course. The SMG is very abusable, so by giving it to the ARPD, the potential for abuse is much higher.

Just picking one out the list now, every player should have admin rights. Of course this will not happen, as said before, there are minority of people who abuse commands. If this had been suggested, it would be chucked out fairly rapidly.

"All players have the same amount of money, and assets". This is implemented, at the start of your Argonath career. Remember when you joined? $10'000, and a skin all new players have. Maybe players who joined earlier received other things, but that is irrelevant for now. All players start equal, and what they choose to make of themselves is their own decision. We must remember that we were all new once, and had to make our reputations, buy our businesses etc.
We do not pick on people, and select only a few 'elite' players to be SAPD. Applications are kept open for all players, with some rules to make sure players with some experience apply (passport etc).

"Give everyone the commands for a hydra." An obvious one really. Abuse is the only thing you can really say to it, for some players. As on Argonath Stunt, the hydra was taken off the list through abuse by players.

The point I'm trying to make is, the Argonath Vision is not the full control of everything we do. All players start equal (apart from things like ping and time-zones), and have equal opportunities (bar variation as the amount of people increase) from the beginning. Some people applied to SAPD, others to criminal groups, and that is how it has been, certainly since I have been here.
The Argonath Vision should not be twisted in any way, shape or form, to argue for things that personally, I do not think the Argo Vision represents.
We have equality, but we also have stereotypes, like 'noob freecop', caused by a minority of players who ruin it for other people. The problem is, this minority of players is still there, which makes giving all an SMG is impractical and almost asking them to abuse. Five times at least, I have had ARPD Officers drive-by me, since the new ARPD/SAPD rules, and this is without them being given them. We have special rules for the SMG, which some ARPD Officers would not know. We can teach them, but the SAPD Academy drums this in to SAPD Cadets/Officers, which makes them trusted enough to have abusable weapons.

So I guess the Argonath Vision is blurred, and we need glasses, but players will have different views, so which one is correct?

This sums it up better than I put it! As I said about the Argonath Vision being twisted, please read the bit I have made bold on Nexxt's post. By putting it down as Argonath Vision, it looks less like a moan.
The bit i've put in italics cannot be faulted. It is definitely a moan topic, using bits of the Argonath Vision to cover it up.

That is Socialism , it would never work. It doesen't work on RL , and it doesn't work here.

[Jubin]

All he is here to badmouth SAPD for some reason, but hey like i said lets close down SAPD and we'll see what happens...maybe Infernal wouldnt be affected as he would be on duty as the new "chief" of freecops, but the criminals would be really hurt by what the outcome is when no officer is held by any regulations and will do anything anytime anywhere as long as they follow the server rules.

Well, I would really like to take you up on it. As I am quite sure that for a criminal nothing would change.

[Nexxt]

I did not ment that he want to have SMG, but just look @ SA:MP General and look at the authors.
This topics creates fuss and ALWAYS cause discussions between people, and split up groups even more and that's unneeded in such community.

If you want to change Argonath (don't know why you should) then do not come with this topics to "talk" about it, but come with some actual ideas and sent them to the owners.
For your daily talk group, you can maybe sign up for something in your region in real life.

[BlackBird]

If you want to change Argonath (don't know why you should) then do not come with this topics to "talk" about it, but come with some actual ideas and sent them to the owners.
For your daily talk group, you can maybe sign up for something in your region in real life.

Because as with any other server it's far from perfect, why is talking so wrong?
Granted this is an idea, and it is in the wrong section, but there is a section on this forum devoted to ideas, so the public may express their oppinion.
Unfortunately for you i doubt theirs a IRL "Argonath ideas" group wandering around in his region that rent community centers and hold meetings.

This topics creates fuss and ALWAYS cause discussions between people, and split up groups even more and that's unneeded in such community.

For one thing, proper english, learn it plz.
Finally, It's not curses fault people react badly to ideas and suggestions for change, it's yours and everyones elses fault these topics cause "Fuss"