To Gandalf

[Dexter]

There will not be crap on you as soon as you stop crapping on Klaus and us for not following your precious ideas. If you want YOUR ideas to work, make your own server and stop bothering us.

In case you haven't noticed I do not give a shit how is this part of community going anymore. Klaus can do what he likes. Does not affect to me anyways. Good that he have been able to keep this part of community up because clearly some people like to be here.

If you want to stay here, it will always be OUR ideas to which a server will be working.
Yes we do listen to suggestions, but in the end we decide the direction of the servers. You can either accept that and stay or find another community.

Like it or not I have been, am and will always be fan of Argonath. Even if it sometimes pisses you or anyone else off.

You were together with Klaus developing the server, so you had every chance to work with him and make the server more to your liking. In an admin meeting where Klaus was not present you brought up that you could not get along with him. Aragorn asked you to try and sort out things, or make a meeting with him and us. A few days later we got the message you left. Problem solved.

Klaus knew very well that our minds were not working sameway for this server. And as much you try to make this look like that I just quit immediatly when I face problems..that's not true and I did try to sort things out. Did not work and it was slipping away from my hands. So yeah decided to put my focus to somewhere else. And problem never was just about my and Klaus problems btw. It was about server and how it will turn. And as I saw it was that it was being very unfriendly back then. So yep indeed if you like unfriendly server manager then sure problem was solved.

Ever since then you have been trying to return to your position, and trying to backstab Klaus by spreading stories to everyone who would listen about what better job you would have done.

And where you got this info from? I returned once to my position and back then me and Klaus was still very good friends. After sometime of that problems came and then all that leaving stuff. I have not tried to return to my position..not once after that. I got enough of it and moved on. And I have not been spreading any shit. They all have came to me and if they wanted to talk about it..then sure I gave my opinion. And when they tried to show to you guys some proves about him I said they can use my name. Tho knowing it would mean shit anyways. So this stament of yours is lies.

You should consider yourself extremely lucky that it was Klaus you were talking abotu and not Boromir, Aragorn or me, as in that case you would have been banned from here a long time ago.

I did not have problem with any of those guys you mentioned. If I would then I would have dealt with it. if it means that I get ban for trying to clear the air then so be it. Won't bow anyone who I have problem with. And before you turn to this that I am just fucking with you..I do have respect for you guys for making this community. But in this case I disagree. Does not mean I am againts Argonath as you seem to think. Just there is sometimes things what people can't agree on.

If you are trying to turn IV:MP in to a similar SA:MP no-move no-shoot no-breathe style, then you might find it will not follow your ideas as well very soon. So better leave while you still can do it by yourself.

And again what does this have to do with this subject what this topic is about? Please just keep it one case at time. But since you HAD to comment about this.. It's not really upto me what way it will go. It's choice of community aswell. People play it like they want and I am there just to make sure it won't break any of argonath rules. Not me, not you..anyone..can make it to be exactly how they like it to be. I am having things good in there. Wanna ban me? Because of fucking what? Because I disagree with you? That is not even proper reason to do that. I am not going anywhere as I love this community. Trust me that I do feel sorry that we gotta have this argument. And really I am not even intrested to have it anymore as it is old stuff already and should be focusing to future instead. So if you do decide to ban me then you could and reason as *Protecting himself from being misunderstanded*.

[SugarD]

Dexter, we understand you're mad man, but try to calm down with the swearing. It's making it appear as if you are attacking someone in your responses, rather than the reality which is you are trying to respond, but you are just angry. I know it's hard to do, but I'd rather not see another good player banned because he wants to help the community so bad it frustrates him to anger. That's what happened to me, and trust me, it's not worth it. Try to calm down and focus your discussion in a less-threatening way.

[Kessu]

Sorry for interrupting into this Gandalf and Dexter, but I hope a neutral opinion can be good for you (since I know Dex, I sometimes helped him a bit in being a developer, but he always made decisions with Klaus, I was just giving my opinions)

Clearly from what I've understand, Dexter left VCMP Leader position because the vision did not match his and went to find another place.. Now he's at IVMP and is enjoying it. Whilst VCMP is going to direction it was going when Dexter left, tho' it already is there, scripts are getting better and more advanced, tho' it still does support more cops vs criminals as it always have, but there are coming more and more chances to gain money and roleplaying chances are unlimited on the server.

Klaus and Dexter had their own problems, but that is not the reason why Dexter left his position as a Leader, that I already explained.

I also understand Gandalf's point of view, it may seem like Dexter is the start of all the shit, whilst infact, he did talk with you, expressed (spelt?) his opinion, but I haven't seen him talking shit about Klaus or VCMP itself behind anyones back, he's been giving his opinion on the forums when he sees there is another topic about it (which have happened alot, especially last year).

I've seen how they led VCMP by theirselves and it was great job they were doing, just too bad they had so different opinions..

Yes, I myself had problems with the way Klaus was leading the server back then, I talked them through tho' with him and was actually surprised about the result, as we are now very good friends and we are sharing mostly the same vision of what the server can be and what it is now. Also we both know how it was before back in early 2008 (Klaus knows it longer than me tho')

Now when you talk about SAMP, I don't give a shit about their way of RPing, I was there for some time, became an admin and lost my admin rights when you shook up the admin team. I also was admin back in VCMP when I joined SAMPs admin team and gave up my rights on VCMP (which happened to be the biggest mistake of my argo career).

Yes, I could still enjoy SAMP, but I've always thought VC is THE place for me. Either MTA or MP, which ever happens to be up or down, but mostly I am in VCMP since there I know what is happening and stuff..


So as TL;DR

Dexter did not start the shitstorm from my opinion (atleast not completely alone), your both right in some things, but can't you guys think this through from each others position? I mean Gandalf tries to think this shit from Dex's point of view and another way around...

Also, yes, it's in the past, but there still is the problem and that is the ones who don't like the way Klaus is leading. I say to them; Fuck off if you don't like it, you have the right to play elsewhere PERMANNTLY where you like how things are going.

[Gandalf]

Still playing innocent ? You were supposed to sort out the problems and come to us if it did not not. Instead you chose to leave and support every shit who got in to an argument with Klaus.
The best way for a server is if a more harsh and a more diplomatic leader work together. You had your chance, but left all the work to one man. We support guys who are responsible and stay to do their best, not the ones who leave and then tell it was never their fault...
You can try to turn that to make it look like you have ZOMG principles, the reality is that you could not handle it and chickened out, and have been supporting those who want to make shit ever since.

You are currently inactive on IV:MP, probably because you can not be bothered to keep a server alive when it was not on the server list. So do not give me the blah blah about protecting, as if you do not step up activity real fast you will be removed, not by my decision but by the managers of the server without ANY comments from us.

[Dexter]

Dexter, we understand you're mad man, but try to calm down with the swearing. It's making it appear as if you are attacking someone in your responses, rather than the reality which is you are trying to respond, but you are just angry. I know it's hard to do, but I'd rather not see another good player banned because he wants to help the community so bad it frustrates him to anger. That's what happened to me, and trust me, it's not worth it. Try to calm down and focus your discussion in a less-threatening way.

Probably you are right about this. Just as Aragorn I am swearing to show my point more.

Clearly from what I've understand, Dexter left VCMP Leader position because the vision did not match his and went to find another place.. Now he's at IVMP and is enjoying it. Whilst VCMP is going to direction it was going when Dexter left, tho' it already is there, scripts are getting better and more advanced, tho' it still does support more cops vs criminals as it always have, but there are coming more and more chances to gain money and roleplaying chances are unlimited on the server.

As stated I am suprised and glad that vcmp is still alive. Even that I do not play there anymore. I admit it has been good job from those who stayed.

Also, yes, it's in the past, but there still is the problem and that is the ones who don't like the way Klaus is leading. I say to them; f**k off if you don't like it, you have the right to play elsewhere PERMANNTLY where you like how things are going.

Agreed with this.

Still playing innocent ? You were supposed to sort out the problems and come to us if it did not not. Instead you chose to leave and support every shit who got in to an argument with Klaus.

Tried.

The best way for a server is if a more harsh and a more diplomatic leader work together. You had your chance, but left all the work to one man. We support guys who are responsible and stay to do their best, not the ones who leave and then tell it was never their fault...

To corrct mistake here..I am not saying what I did was brave or anything. Fault for leaving is me and that I did not have intrest to go on.

You can try to turn that to make it look like you have ZOMG principles, the reality is that you could not handle it and chickened out, and have been supporting those who want to make shit ever since.

Correction here too. I supported those who tried to make difference to better server for roleplay.

You are currently inactive on IV:MP, probably because you can not be bothered to keep a server alive when it was not on the server list. So do not give me the blah blah about protecting, as if you do not step up activity real fast you will be removed, not by my decision but by the managers of the server without ANY comments from us.

Get your facts right before making any false accusations. Nothing to do with server not being in the list. Again thinking why you talk this here but I am fully aware of my inactivity there and working on it. I am not leaving even that you do not like me that much.

So yeah now we are getting off from subject anyways so I have cleared out here. Nothing else to add.

Have fun on playing in VCMP peeps!

[Kessu]

You can try to turn that to make it look like you have ZOMG principles, the reality is that you could not handle it and chickened out, and have been supporting those who want to make shit ever since.

Correction here too. I supported those who tried to make difference to better server for roleplay.

Server always had the same roleplaying ability, it hasn't changed a bit since we joined Argonath. You tried to change the server to match your vision more whilst others had the same vision, which obviously does not support cops vs criminals so much

[Alarba]

Old VCMP - Klaus cop, me criminal
In between VCMP - Klaus criminal, me cop
Nowadays VCMP - Klaus criminal, me criminal

Seriously now, even though it was not preset throught all Argo VCMP history, i can not really tell what's wrong with the past direction and the ongoing direction of the server. There is RP, the scripts are solid, regarding DeathMatching, I must say that sometimes people cannot deal with some extra action and start saying that Klaus ( administration? ) defends a policy of DM and that he does not care.

On a last note, Dexter, Emre, anyone else who openly disagrees with Klaus, who do you suggest to take Klaus place under VCMP Management?

[Klaus]

I can't understand the people who mention that some time in the past it was all so different, when it really wasn't.
No one knows the history of the server better than myself and aXXo, who's been around since the BETA stages of the first ever VCMP.

The server has always been revolved around cop and criminal roles. They are the most popular and have always been. But that doesn't mean it's simply cops and robbers. Players roleplay their role, if it's cop or criminal. You don't just spawn as a 'criminal'. Players have to roleplay as a criminal. They break the law by robbing the bank or w/e.

To people who say the server has drifted more to DM over the past years are totally lost. I can look back to my times in 07/08 and clearly see the improvements of the server. Back then, EVERY skin spawned with weapons, the drug dealer skin was a DMers wetdream spawning with a stubby and ingram. Any player could roll around in a sea sparrow taking out people with the heli cannon. The SWAT skin was open to any new player, who could then spawn m60 and stubby by a simple command. You could get any gun 'free' from ammunations. The scripts and evolved since then and with that roleplay has clearly increased.

[Gandalf]

Get your facts right before making any false accusations. Nothing to do with server not being in the list. Again thinking why you talk this here but I am fully aware of my inactivity there and working on it. I am not leaving even that you do not like me that much.

I do not ask people to leave because I like or dislike them. In fact my personal preferences do not matter, and are never based on an exchange of messages.
What I do demand is that people try to stop any backstabbing or plans to take over things from others they disagree with. If you follow that, you are very much welcome.

[Dexter]

What I do demand is that people try to stop any backstabbing or plans to take over things from others they disagree with. If you follow that, you are very much welcome.

There is no problem for me on that. And I have no choice than admit that things were not dealt as supposed to be with all those reports. I was kinda not giving damn about it all but still giving my name for use what was not right way to do it.