Clarification of the new advertisement rule.

[Hess]

Now, if you wanna "RP IT" by doing /ad BUYING SUGAR then don't complain if the admins start spectating you and get banned if they find you were actually doing an illegal ad for being smartass enough to try to cheat on the admins.

I have to disagree with that statement.

Firstly, doing "/ad BUYING SUGAR" is not at all an illegal ad. Sure, it could lead to an illegal trade but the advertisement itself is not illegal. I don't mind seeing ads such as "buying sugar" or "buying grass", and I honestly don't see why it should be disallowed... people are simply hiding the fact that what they are doing is illegal, and that in itself is what I'd consider to be part of roleplay. If the police are suspicious of an ad like that, they can go investigate. What's the problem?

Secondly, do you honestly think when people do these ads that they are trying to be a "smartass" and "cheat" on admins? That is the main part I disagreed with...

IMO, there is nothing wrong with doing such ads, and they should not be considered as "illegal" if they are hidden by a "legal" ad.

[Pandalink]

Firstly, doing "/ad BUYING SUGAR" is not at all an illegal ad. Sure, it could lead to an illegal trade but the advertisement itself is not illegal. I don't mind seeing ads such as "buying sugar" or "buying grass", and I honestly don't see why it should be disallowed... people are simply hiding the fact that what they are doing is illegal, and that in itself is what I'd consider to be part of roleplay. If the police are suspicious of an ad like that, they can go investigate. What's the problem?

This.
This entire paragraph, man.

[Gandalf]

If players wish to continue evading common sense we can remove the feature all together...

[Julio.]

If players wish to continue evading common sense we can remove the feature all together...

Meaning we can then advertise in main chat?

WHOO!

[KinkyDog561]

Meaning we can then advertise in main chat?

WHOO!

Haha epic win.

But seriously, if you are advertising illegal goods, I'd suggest FBI bust them then do a court case with a fee of 50K+ dollars, so they won't do that kind of shit again. Just like in 2009.

[Mikro]

But seriously, if you are advertising illegal goods, I'd suggest FBI bust them then do a court case with a fee of 50K+ dollars, so they won't do that kind of shit again. Just like in 2009.

Takes shitloads of time to prepare.. 

[Gandalf]

Meaning we can then advertise in main chat?

WHOO!

Sure if you want to be banned...

[Gandalf]

Haha epic win.

But seriously, if you are advertising illegal goods, I'd suggest FBI bust them then do a court case with a fee of 50K+ dollars, so they won't do that kind of shit again. Just like in 2009.

Such suggestions work if players have the common sense not to try advertise illegal things every minute.
In the current situation where players are only looking for the easy money other actions are needed.

So what is the situation if we try to solve this without admins ?
Problem: Players abusing ad for illegal things.
Answer : let the cops handle it by suspecting.
Problem : Players abuse ad to get suspected so they can have a shootout / mass advertise so cops can not keep up
Answer : Disallow illegal ads.
Problem : Players start advertising under different names
Answer : remove the ad feature as it will also reduce spam....
Problem : Players use public chat to advertise
Answer : Remove public chat
Problem : Players will use PM to advertise
Answer : Remove PM

Alternative:
Problem: Players abusing ad for illegal things.
Answer : Let admins warn them until they find ROLEPLAY ways to sell

While we do nit wish to overflow admins with work or make them seen as a negative influence, if the players can not control them selves we have to choose between admin action or turning off good features.

Now for the "smart" players who feel they can circumvent the rules by advertising grass, sugar, flour, toy guns....

As soon as more than 80% of the ads are legal we will not mind. Deal ?

[Rare]

First off let me see I've never seen once in real life someone selling drugs on ads unless it's medicine an pharmacy related. I know Argonath isn't based off real life but I see no one sell weed or heroin in an ad. Now to all you guys thinking you can get away with the illegal ads, you are just provoking admins and asking for a punishment.

Altnerative:

Call the people and ask.
Walk around and ask the people.

It's really not that hard, just use common sense.

[SugarD]

I have to agree with it not being allowed. If you really want to sell something illegal, advertise your "cover" business that's a front for your illegal activity, leaving CODED messages in it that only your known, trusted customers understand that no one else could figure out. Saying you are selling grass or sugar is fairly obvious and therefore you better be ready for people wanting to buy the real thing, so it's not very effective or good at concealing the idea. The point of an illegal ad is only so your under-the-counter customers know it's real meaning, while no one else does. For example:

/ad Come eat at Saint Marco's Bistro today! Try our delicious spaghetti and meatballs, only $9.95!

The average user would see that as a normal ad, advertising food at a restaurant. What your known, trusted, illegal customers know is that this specific advertisement means you are available to sell things illegally. As an alternative, the owner of the business "front" could use an alternative ad that their customers know means that it's not safe to purchase right now, like:

/ad Saint Marco's Bistro! Open every day 7 A.M. to 9 P.M.! (Closed for lunch between 12 P.M. and 1 P.M.)

If the illegal customers know the coding of these ads, one can advertise something legal, which they can still offer for a legal profit through their business front, all while notifying their illegal customers of what's going on. As an added trick, if a member of FBI infiltrates the business' trust and the business owner tells them the code of the system, FBI can use this information to eventually take down the organization, adding a benefited risk to both sides of roleplay. On the contrary, because the FBI member would be undercover, there is a risk of blowing their cover or being killed. All of this still falls within legal advertising too because the initial ads themselves advertise something being sold legally through the business "front", while adding a roleplayed "code" to help illegal businesses prosper..., or get caught!

[9r2e5i3k]

Bad screenshot in first post.

You should have put the line where I said that it depends on what you sell/buy, not on the ad content. Because if you tell you're selling heroin, it really doesn't matter that you write wheat flour or sugar or heroin in ad. You're still selling heroin, which is an illegal product. Also the screenshot was made late at night  :razz:

And of course players instead of just complying with a simple order and advertising in /s or something, they have to argue "but what if I do this" "but what if I type it like that" "but what if its RP" "but this isn't written on rules page"...

[SugarD]

And of course players instead of just complying with a simple order and advertising in /s or something, they have to argue "but what if I do this" "but what if I type it like that" "but what if its RP" "but this isn't written on rules page"...

Ya...the unfortunate exceptions to the rules have always been an issue in Argo because many of it's lesser important rules are sometimes stated by word of mouth, but never written, or at least made publicly-available for all to view, so there's always many conflicts regarding what is allowed and what's pushing the limits. I remember back in 2009 when things were shifting to Departments again in SA:MP SAPD, this issue was especially common because multiple Chiefs were making conflicting rules and forgetting to post them, so everyone was becoming confused on what was and wasn't allowed. This also opened up the ability for people to take advantage of the conflict to exploit loopholes, such as what we see now with the "selling grass and sugar" incident in /ad. Fortunately though, these issues are becoming less and less common these days as key figures in the community have been stepping in to say what is what, and much of it is done on the forums now, providing a written statement on the issues. Hopefully within time, this problem will fade away as well.

[shitix]

How about "/ad Selling cheap guns inside Willofield ammunation." ? Selling guns inside an ammu is legal, as far i know.

[SugarD]

How about "/ad Selling cheap guns inside Willofield ammunation." ? Selling guns inside an ammu is legal, as far i know.

If you own the Ammunation and you plan on RP'ing the cashier as long as you don't scam people

[newton_alex]

If you own the Ammunation

you don't have to.