To VCMP Argonath players and owners

[Call_me_Dad]

as a family we developed our own language, it mostly involves swearing but no one of us takes the swearing seriously WITHIN our regular group of players.

You are right, but....
The problem is outside our regular group of players.
No-one gets offended by these kind of jokes as far as they are friendly.
By friendly, I mean "Between friends". If you jokingly swear a person who is NOT your friend, the screenshot situation arises.

We know, people hold all kind of grudges in VCMP....Cops vs Gangs, Gangs vs Gangs, Laggers vs Non-Laggers () etc.
Which is not so bad....I personally prefer these grudges and Klaus encouraged it.
These grudges add to the gaming spirit, it acts as a motivation to players and they stick to the server and community more.

But when you combine these grudges with the language/behavior that has developed in VCMP, it alienates a whole group from the server.
The most prominent group being ARPD, which has been alienated in the past (and then you nabs say "ARPD is inactive..." )
No-One appreciates jokes from a player who is on your "Dislike-List".
And, Why should they?
They have all the right to take those screen-shots and complain about the behavior because it is not globally acceptable.

Now, we can fix this situation.
Either, you guys dont build any grudges for other players.
Now I know, thats very hard....you got to hate somebody....
OK, no problem....If you hate somebody, dont express it in a way that it gets you in trouble.
That actually means, no more freedom. But, Hey! we had enough freedom till now
The Owners stated this, and we got to live with it if we want to play here anymore.


PS: I dont know a single guy who ever gets offended by "gypsy" or "b00N"....So, im wondering why you guys discussing it.

[Marcell]

The VC:MPers have come to know each other well, yes. However the problem in the past years is that they have become isolated in a sense from the rest of the Argonath Community, to the point of being racist (discriminatory) against SA:MPers, whether good or bad. In the end, VC:MP's player lineup was made up of an inside circle of players and a lot of new players who ended up not being taught properly, which ended up producing plenty of flaming and deathmatching.

One of the best criticisms I could level at the admin team that served under Klaus (and even at Klaus himself) was the abundance of insults, racism, and flaming that were flying around in VC:MP... circle of friends or not, Argonath is not supposed to tolerate flaming on any Argonath Server, and VC:MP is no exception. Had the majority of leading players in VC:MP not deviated from the Argonath standard, this would have not happened...

Also, I doubt Klaus was demoted from his Manager position for just one simple Nazi comment. Such a move would be out of character for the Owners.

We never disrespected SAMP'ers (as you call them) just cause they play SAMP. They earned the disrespect by their own hands, coming to the server and trying to blackmail us just cause they don't like how the server is... most of people were like that, thus the next SAMPers earned disrespect from the regulars. A stereotype was circulating in air like a virus.

[JDC]

Then it was a problem on part of VC:MP players to look as all SA:MP players in the same way. Even I received cold stares when I joined VC:MP because I work on SA:MP, despite the fact I became an SA:MP Admin to help fix the situation there.

[Kessu]

It's not that VCMP dislikes SAMPers, it's that SAMPers dislike VCMP, in which resulted a bad habit of giving icecold welcome to ANY samp player that joins VCMP.

aXXo: The gypsy/boon talk was referred by owners and claimed as offensive behaviour which is not acceptable.

JDC: The new players were taught very well about the rules and such, it's that new players grew along with other VCMP community to be what we are now.

Tho' aXXo is right, the one's outside of "reqular" VCMP group of players, there's no way for them to understand how we've been acting on the server for a longer time not many can imagine.

Many, like muzzie (the one who made this topic) for example, gets used to it very quickly, some takes time and others not at all.

[Klaus]

VCMP players grew to dislike those who came to the server from SAMP etc just to moan about how things are run differently; you can't blame them for that. I've already mentioned before how new players are treated with the upmost respect, unless they're just troublemakers. 

[SugarD]

It shouldn't happen regardless. It's one thing to not agree on ideas, but to be prejudice against another player because of the server they play on is ridiculous. We are one community. It goes both ways too. No one should discriminate against you either.

[muzdaaz]

It shouldn't happen regardless. It's one thing to not agree on ideas, but to be prejudice against another player because of the server they play on is ridiculous. We are one community. It goes both ways too. No one should discriminate against you either.

In general, the problem is about individual players who come from another gaming atmosphere (SAMP for example). They join the server and expect things to work in a same way as in their previous one. People often ragequit, unable to get to know those people who insulted them in any way, creating a shitty first expression, which leads to dislike between both players. Of course it is wrong to label the server they are coming from instead of those individuals, yet you can not change the way a man thinks. It's very common IRL aswell (ex: "niggaz always blast people and steal stuff"). In my opinion, the best thing we can do is to dislike the constant whiner/flamer instead of the server he is coming from.

[ZeRoX2]

I agree with every single word Muzdaaz said.

[Jaga848]

I agree with Muz too. He's actually the one who was the bravest and had most nerves to start this topic.

[JasonSaint]

Im proud of you muz

I think the banned ones (perry,marcell,kessu) have to be unbanned i think the ban maybe woke them up but the server is quite boring when you have no friends, amd especially these people who joke about eachother. And if you feel attacked by the word gypsy and b00n then ask what they mean with it, the first time i got called a gypsy i asked the person what he meant and he said: i was lolling. So i didnt mind... Maybe vcmp is not a normal server where players compete but where they became friends and now it is like one big group of em who respect eachother and sometimes make fun of eacother.

[Gandalf]

In general, the problem is about individual players who come from another gaming atmosphere (SAMP for example). They join the server and expect things to work in a same way as in their previous one. People often ragequit, unable to get to know those people who insulted them in any way, creating a shitty first expression, which leads to dislike between both players. Of course it is wrong to label the server they are coming from instead of those individuals, yet you can not change the way a man thinks. It's very common IRL aswell (ex: "niggaz always blast people and steal stuff"). In my opinion, the best thing we can do is to dislike the constant whiner/flamer instead of the server he is coming from.

We are an Argonath community, and that means that people should behave like we believe is right.
That certainly does not mean to turn VC:MP in to a copy of SA:MP, we would be very much against that. However it does mean to treat others with respect and forget about discrimination.
I do not know how its in your contry today, but we were taught that an offensive word is an offensive word, and will be dealt with as such. The concept of discriminating between friends who you can call by any offensive name as they are friends and strangers that you can not call offensive names as they are not your friend is something we will never support.

Do you consider me your friend ? Then you are a gay noob. If not, you are a nice guy...

[JasonSaint]

ok gandalf we live in the same country and here it is the same as on VC:MP friends make jokes about eacother and like i said before: they know how far they can go because it is a tiny server actually.
and yes if im your friend and you call me a gay noob then ill say: but you were dancing on a boat yesterday? so we are even then it is finished, most people laugh a bit. but we never do this behaviour to newcomers mostly when we get to know them a bit it start with a little joke and 90% doesnt even matter. and the other 10% are quite fast pissed or as we say in dutch 'snel op zijn teentjes getrapt' so that is not our problem that they are easily pissed it is theirs, and then we know we cant make jokes against that person, but if he understood it he will adjust himself and make jokes back, so it is fine

[muzdaaz]

I do not know how its in your contry today, but we were taught that an offensive wo rd is an offensive word, and will be dealt with as such. The concept of discriminating between friends who you can call by any offensive name as they are friends and strangers that you can not call offensive names as they are not your friend is something we will never support.

I would never like to see anyone else nor myself insulting someone (not even my friends) via stupid and childish words like "gay,fag,cunt" etc. This is retarded and mostly used by raging people running low on decent counter-arguments.
Im talking about terms that are used mostly inside Argonath VCMP, which may have totally different meaning than to those coming from somewhere else. Using common sense people know the meanings of offensive words like fucker, cunt, dick etc, but terms such as gypsy and boon are not to be taken as offensive ones, at least inside VCMP. While we are a part of Argonath, some terms, traditions etc. may differ from others. If in some country, your name would mean "asshole", would you like to nuke that country?

Do you consider me your friend ? Then you are a gay noob. If not, you are a nice guy...

I dont even think about calling my friends gay noobs, nor should you The words that I'm talking about are a part of our terms/expressions inside VCMP, and "gay noobs" is not one of them.

Well, If I get your point right, you want new players not to get the feeling like swearing, disrespecting others is normal and expected.
Ill personally do my best to avoid insulting others via our inside terms I use and explain them if needed.

[Jellyfish]

I do play on the VC:MP server occasionally and have never yet recieved 'Cold stares' nor flaming.
Joined it yesterday,Talked to Klaus about Random stuff while he ran around taking pictures.Joined a few days back and played with a few players as a cop...
But you know how it is 'The first impression is the last impression'....
I got a good one... Don't know about y'all..

[Ave]

A good place to share my point of view.

After Klaus' demotion, Argonath VC:MP has changed into sweet and full of irony community, where even Bin Laden would be welcomed with highest honours... We've seen a massive number of former players, who are strong, but only on paper and rarely spotted in-game; everywhere's amenity and politeness sometimes clearly reached the level of hypocrisy...

I'm not going to defend my clanmates here, as I wanted to kick M. and P. from EAF after the banishments. My point is to show (in most unbiassed way) that our server has completely lost it's track after manager loss; being often offline and without every-day playerbase. Moreover, that Klaus was a right guy on the right place. We need him or his successor to take care of beta's and new scripts release, as soon as possible.

Eventually, words/terms like gypsy or b00n (even if they're accepted in VC:MP community) may still offend, think about newcomers or guys from other divisions... Unless you're talking in private or in group of friends, I suggest everyone to drop those to prevent future scuffles.