[accepted] Remove restriction for peoples without passport

[miha1111]

Players without passport can't go on duty, why? It is stupid, ALOT of new palyers are very intersted in cop job, they stay on server because of it, they love that job.

[Batta]

I heard about this problem today, when did they add this?? We could have a "security guard" rank as SA:MP an year ago for who doesn't have passport but . . . actually I don't see any reason to block the access to duty . . .

[Axi2]

I'll ask you to refrain to create anything that can undermine polite discussion and functioning of the debate.

I also ask you to refrain to open discussion of the circumstances here because we haven't enough arguments for any kind of discussion.

If there needs to be any discussion about this problem, then it shall be filled in the appropriate agenda item on the agenda of ARPD forums.

The least reason why this is done is that we have had experience with fake murders.

[RaFu]

Actually, I'm glad to hear about this restriction ! For many reasons :

- If everybody can go on cop duty and everybody goes on duty, there always is a lack of cruisers.
- It's a good thing to be sure that ppl who goes on duty know the rules of the server; this restriction is kind of inssurance to avoid rulebreaks/abuses from cops
- People who now are on duty are ppl who really wanted to be cops, not only players coming from DM/Freeroams who join lcpd to be "more powerfull" than civilians

So I didn't know about this add, but I'm 100% supporting it !

[Martin.]

I m very glad to hear this is done. Now players who dont know the server rules cant abuse cop commands to annoy other players. By doing this the freecop job is preserved and doesnt conflict the argo vision.

ALOT of new palyers are very intersted in cop job, they stay on server because of it, they love that job.

There are also ALOT of players who dont know the rules and constantly abuse the commands. They are so exited they finally got a gun and uniform so some of them automatically think they have the ultimate power and can do whatever they please cause they are the law. And its not just about that. They just dont know the rules and they wont bother or dont know the command to see the rules. And if they love that job so much then there shouldnt be any problem for them to return to the server. I mean where else can they RP a cop ? Argonath server is the most populated and the for the best place to RP a cop.


After beeing in server for 7 days they start to get the atmosphere and see that this is RP server not a DM or Cops n robbers server. Maybe this way we could and probably will have more cops who can RP.


Now if the player really really wants to be a cop and dont have a passport then maybe there can be arranged a special permit that is given by higher ranking officer ?

EDIT: After seeing those restrictions in game i also think they are not there to help server get better. I think they should be removed or adjusted asap. Freecops maybe rule-breakers but they are needed and everyone are breaking rules when they are starting in the server. I can see now how that i was wrong.

[Thomas 'Leroy' Crof]

I wonder who authorised this, since it's against the Argonath Vision. :poke:

[Marcell]

I wonder who authorised this, since it's against the Argonath Vision. :poke:

Pretty much, maybe it's a bug or something?

[Rami]

Pretty much, maybe it's a bug or something?

It's not a bug when a message says "You need to have a passport...etc".

[Witchking]

i have no idea who set this up  This will get  removed =)


Regards

[DellStorm]

Hi Fellas

Let me give you a few reasons as to why this has been put in place...

If anyone wishes to discuss this in more detail i recommend they write here as it will help us to future the betterment of ArgonathRPG IV:MP.

The /duty FreeCop restriction was put in place after seeing what *new* players had abused. This involved /Jail /su abuse, usually in the early hours. This was slowed down somewhat by the 3 to 7 minute jail timer, but still after 3 hours ( 3am to 6am ) you think that you can only see if someone is jailed and suspected if you are also on cop duty - how many are on that at 3am ? So before you know it you can rank up $100,000 with a few friends....

This is the main reason for it but lets think for a second about the benefits that it gives us.

First off if we have a look at the amount of other jobs are available vs the amount of people that go on the jobs. We have Mechanic, which is very useful as many do not like to fillup! This will help a lot more with the car action. Perhaps in the future this job may be more scripted to allow resprays and so forth.

Secondly we have a medic which is useful as people are always low on health. Something that has been missed out a lot when people instead go to the bar / pub and */eat* again this gives better interaction between players.

Then there is also the Taxi job which can be used a lot more. The Taxi's have been fixed now so that no matter what Taxi you go in - you will be able to do the Taxi job that means if you see one you can use it, not just the ones at the airport! Think about the amount of people that at the minute get crashed out without a car? Very useful i would say - also what about tours ? Theres a lot of things to do on our server, perhaps Taxi's could show new players around - that way they the *tour guide* earns  money for new players.

If you think what can happen in 7 days (until they have a passport) they have a lot to keep them occupied and because of this its a good reason to allow it only after the passport.

Owning your own car is somewhat depressed because there are state cars that you can use - and not to mention when there are many people on the server you can always find someone elses infernus or comet to use.

I've gone over this with a few admins, and mostly the players that i know have done some kind of cheating in the past have been the ones mostly to complain, but if you think about it from the new player experience..

New players do not know about the server, neither the rules or what $10 is compared to $1000. Many people that i've noticed on the logs that are new players are happy to give away money which is why /give is now also removed for unless they have a passport. That doesnt mean that people without a passport cant give to new players!

So lets keep talking about the whole freecop scenario. I know K_Senate wasn't too happy about this and he explained to me the reasons behind it....

Say I'm a newbie and I like the server and i want a maverick, I can get a few friends of mine to come on the server - as they wont be on it for long... /jail /su them for a while and then boom i have major money.

Senate said that this is the role of the Admin... I'm going out on a leaf with is but I believe that Admins should be able to help players not by /copbanning them if they do something wrong. Having this limit only limits them for 7 days.

If your not convinced then I ask why have a passport in the first place as you only use a passport to get a license. The passport insures that you have basic knowledge of the server and that you have been on our forums. I dont think that too unreasonable to ask new players. Since its been in operation today we've had the same amount of people (with no drop) not to mention people that I wouldnt think who would normally be cops are cops.

They have been working together and the roleplay quality has improved. Think about what will happen in 7 days when people who continue to stay with us build up their confidence around the server. I would like to add also at the end where is there is more cop cars for all and not to mention this should be the time where LCPD builds up their force to attract new recruits.

I'd like to know your suggestions - either by PM IG or here. From the sound of it there seems to be a 50 / 50 divide between people that think it is a good idea for the most part and then others that believe it is too restrictive.

Thanks for your time and I hope you can see why I've created this. Again all opinions are necessary for the future.

Regards, DellStorm

[Martin.]

This quality over quantity is way better. Now the cop job seems like a respectable job where you dont have to fight for your survival with other cops. Cops are actually working together and are much more effective. Those people you normally dont see on cop duty are not maybe there cause of that very reason and cause there has always been enough cops on streets even more than is needed. Its not like that anymore. Today when i was in i saw that there are no cops so went on duty myself. I dont usually work as cop actually i have worked 1 day a cop within 8-9months and when i started to play on argo ofc. I didnt go on the duty before cause there was always more cops than civilians. I have to admit that it was pretty fun to do cop job, specially when u dont have to fight with other cops when chasing someone. The quality and gaming experience as cop has definitely improved Dell.

[SugarD]

I wonder who authorised this, since it's against the Argonath Vision. :poke:

1.   Argonath was, is, and will always be a community that should be friendly to new people. We will continue to be  a breeding ground for new people to discover the fun of playing by imagination. This is what has brought us official status and creates a regular flow of new players in to our server, keeping the community alive and feeding it.
2.   Argonath gives equal rights to new, experienced and admin players. We do not discriminate between players, and having admin rights or being a long time player does not give any of our players rights to act as better, higher or having more status as another.
6.   Argonath players are, regardless of point 5, free to implement within their group or play guidelines and habits of playing. However they are not allowed to force people outside their group to use the same rules, resort to flaming, insulting, or trying to excluse players who do not play by non-official group rules.
10.   Argonath will remain as open, friendly and strong community for people worldwide who wish to enjoy playing a game based on imagination and creativity.

I'm fairly certain that restricting users from going on duty without a passport IS a violation of the Argonath Vision. What's the point of them staying to play here long enough to earn a passport if they can't roleplay any of the scripted jobs? That's unfair treatment to players, and makes Argo appear just like any other strict RP server, which in itself is against Argonath's Vision.

If you want to solve a common problem, you don't restrict the unknowing users from being able to do it. You try to teach them and hope they find their way. If cops are unknowingly abusing the job as new players, that is the fault of the admins and players for not showing them around and teaching them how things work. If they do it on purpose anyway after being shown around, then that constitutes a job-ban, which in itself has nothing to do with this issue since they already know it's not allowed.

[DellStorm]

Hi Sugar D,

Fact is New / Experienced and Admins are treating everyone equal. There are other jobs that can be done. (Such as Taxi / Medic & Mechanic) the only difference here is that the LCPD / Cop duty job is *law enforcement* which can give players the feeling that they *are* infact over others.

The idea brought forward is to limit this ability only whilst new players get to learn the server, the same way in which one would learn how to roleplay properly instead of mass DM. It gives people the opportunity to find other jobs also around the server rather than rushing towards the cop job.

So far it seems a success and doesn't go past the ArgonathRPG Vision of giving people a higher rank as every new player that comes on has the same rights given. After all the passport exists and serves a good purpose.

Thanks for your input.

Regards, DellStorm

[SugarD]

So far it seems a success and doesn't go past the ArgonathRPG Vision of giving people a higher rank as every new player that comes on has the same rights given. After all the passport exists and serves a good purpose.

That is not correct. The Passport serves no real purpose in Argo, and it is mainly only used by official groups. Regardless, the Argonath Vision specifically states that it is not allowed to force players not in an official group to follow that official group's rules or restrictions. LCPD, under their authority and official status, may require passports all they want, but ARPD Officers are not included in this rule as any user not in LCPD is part of ARPD when on police duty.

6.   Argonath players are, regardless of point 5, free to implement within their group or play guidelines and habits of playing. However they are not allowed to force people outside their group to use the same rules, resort to flaming, insulting, or trying to excluse players who do not play by non-official group rules.

[Rami]

I think this should be removed when we have the copban system.