President Obama supports gay / same-sex marriage

[Daco]

So you believe the truth is subjective ?

Of course.

[Gandalf]

They are taught religion so they can have the freedom to choose what ever they think is the truth, and:
Not everybody is an atheist.

The thing is that if they are taught religion they should be taught the subject in full, not having some people from a religion coming in to recruit.

So here is the program for religion class:

Part 1 : Prehistoric religion
- Archeological evidence of religion worshipping the sun, moon and other natural events

Part 2 : Ancient religion
- Rites of Druids
- Egyptian, Sumerian, Indian and Chinese ancients religious works
- Aztek
- Mayan
- North-American native religions

Part 3 : Multitheism
- Greek
- Roman
- Norsk
- Asian

Part 4 : Modern religion
- Christianity
-- Catholic
-- Orthodox
-- Protestant
-- Mormon
-- Jehovah
- Islam
-- Sunni
-- Shi'ite
- Hinduism
- Buddhism
- Sikhism
- Judaism
- Baha'i
- Confusianism
- Jainism
- Zoroastrianism
- Shinto
- Taoism
- Wicca

From all these religions the following will be mentioned:
- Origin of mankind
- Religious rules
- Manner of praying
- Claims of truth
- Idea of afterlife
- Position against non-believers and other religions

I sincerely doubt that many schools woud dare to give this program in religion class, as it is bound to get protested against by parents.
Also I doubt that any student of this program will choose a religion without being influenced by their community.

[saberman]

Of course this is a very difficult target to accomplish and of course many schools believe it as useless. The training to choose what ever path they wish to choose with a summary and encouragement (includes reasons to believe) will give them (not limited to, however) a clear idea of other  eligions, as I have seen people within Argonath are confused of.

[Gandalf]

Of course this is a very difficult target to accomplish and of course many schools believe it as useless. The training to choose what ever path they wish to choose with a summary and encouragement (includes reasons to believe) will give them (not limited to, however) a clear idea of other  eligions, as I have seen people within Argonath are confused of.

Why should religion class encourage and give reasons to believe? That is not their task unless the school is specific for one religion, in which case the religion program I suggested is certainly not going to be taught.

[Pandalink]

So you believe the truth is subjective ?

Of course.

No, just no. The truth is by definition objective.
You can call it subjective all you like, but there is only one actual truth, only one thing that is actual fact.


As for religion in schools, I did dislike how they just arbitrarily chose a single religion as the subject matter. Actually, focusing on specific religions at all is rather missing the point in my opinion, which was why R.E. was such an absolute joke to everyone in the class, indeed so much so that even the teacher gave up trying to make us care.

Now, studying the reasons behind religion from an objective standpoint, and examining why religion exists from a cultural and psychological point of view.. that is something that would actually interest me from an educational point of view.

[JDC]

Now, studying the reasons behind religion from an objective standpoint, and examining why religion exists from a cultural and psychological point of view.. that is something that would actually interest me from an educational point of view.

As with me. However, that is something I have yet to see in any single school over here.

[Pandalink]

As with me. However, that is something I have yet to see in any single school over here.

Same here, sadly.

Also, I only just noticed by shocking sentence structure there. My bad. :roll:

[Gandalf]

Of course.

No, just no. The truth is by definition objective.
You can call it subjective all you like, but there is only one actual truth.

Actually there is not. The word truth is closely linked to 'trust' which means that one believes something to be true, not that it is a scientific fact.
There for the truth is always subjective, as your truth and my truth can differ based on our set of beliefs.

Someone can tell the truth and still be wrong.

[Pandalink]

Actually there is not. The word truth is closely linked to 'trust' which means that one believes something to be true, not that it is a scientific fact.
There for the truth is always subjective, as your truth and my truth can differ based on our set of beliefs.

Someone can tell the truth and still be wrong.

Yea, I guess from that use of the word it is indeed subjective (in that it's what someone genuinely believes to be true). However, when speaking of "the truth" in a more general sense (rather than a personal one), I usually take that to mean "the factual truth", hence my claiming it to be objective.

[Gandalf]

Yea, I guess from that use of the word it is indeed subjective (in that it's what someone genuinely believes to be true). However, when speaking of "the truth" in a more general sense (rather than a personal one), I usually take that to mean "the factual truth", hence my claiming it to be objective.

That is from your position as atheist. When religious people talk about 'finding the truth' in religious context, it is bound to be a subjective matter. 

[Daco]

Of course.

No, just no. The truth is by definition objective.
You can call it subjective all you like, but there is only one actual truth, only one thing that is actual fact.

Good luck finding it.
Post Merge: June 17, 2012, 01:46:49 pm

However, when speaking of "the truth" in a more general sense (rather than a personal one), I usually take that to mean "the factual truth", hence my claiming it to be objective.

Does it exist?

[Aksel]

Teaching children about various sexual preferences such as homosexuality will only be beneficial and not brainwashing. After all, their freedom of choice is absolutely guaranteed and they aren't forced to follow any specific preference. On the contrary, teaching them about religion is a waste of time whereas they can easily learn about it sooner or later from their community.

It doesn't work that way, as sexuality is biological. Religion is not.

[JDC]

That is from your position as atheist. When religious people talk about 'finding the truth' in religious context, it is bound to be a subjective matter. 

How would you define the difference between "telling the truth" and "stating the facts"?

[Gimli]

Why isn't the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster mentioned? :conf:

[saberman]

Why should religion class encourage and give reasons to believe? That is not their task unless the school is specific for one religion, in which case the religion program I suggested is certainly not going to be taught.

And it is not their task to speak about religion in the first place. By encouragement and give reasons to believe I meant evidence to support it. And no, I do not mean it specifically for Islam, but other religions as well.