Teenage Atheist Union

[Jubin]

By default I think human would become a pagan, believing of supernatural beings in control of the aspects that he can not.

[Dutchy]

Belief in which god ? If the child explains things he does not understand by supernatural influences as cavemen did, he is believing in a god, and there for no atheist.
Atheism is not limited to the God of the Bible or Quoran, it includes any supernatural being with higher powers.
I made a clear point that almost every culture we know has had religion to explain the unknown, and there for it is very likely that religion develops in every human without having extended knowledge of science and society. On the contrary, atheism seems to be limited to those who are disappointed in their religion and those who are having an understanding of science.
So contrary to your point I would like to state that everyone has a religion, unless taught otherwise.

I understand that every being which has the power to think on its own, starts believing in a religion. But does this believe in a god?



I think it does not, there for it is an atheist... Right? I'm using common sense here, not sophisticated religious studies..

[SafetyMoose]

I understand that every being which has the power to think on its own, starts believing in a religion. But does this believe in a god?



I think it does not, there for it is an atheist... Right? I'm using common sense here, not sophisticated religious studies..

Common sense would dictate we understand how the brain works at birth. Your trying to imply that we understand how our brains work yet they are one of the biggest mysteries of modern science. Trying to convince people of what goes through our brain at birth makes it seem like you know for certain. You can have your "belief" of what happens to us naturally but you have just as much evidence of what your refering to then anyone saying people are naturally born believing in a god.

[Gandalf]

I understand that every being which has the power to think on its own, starts believing in a religion. But does this believe in a god?

I think it does not, there for it is an atheist... Right? I'm using common sense here, not sophisticated religious studies..

If he starts believing in any type of supernatural power that has powers to steer his life, he is by definition not an atheist. It does not matter if he come up with the Biblical God, the Norsk Valhalla or the Roman multigods, or simply sees the Sun and Moon (providing he can see them).
To be an atheist one must not believe in any kind of such power being present.

[Pandalink]

Antitheism does not necessarily have to be harmful for society,

No, you misunderstood him. He means that antitheism is the belief that theism is actively harmful.


Perhaps the default is not atheism, however in that case all that needs to be taught is that not every question in life has a definitive answer yet.
At the point that this fact is taught, if someone still believes in a deity then they are indeed a wildly irrational person.

[Gandalf]

No, you misunderstood him. He means that antitheism is the belief that theism is actively harmful.


Perhaps the default is not atheism, however in that case all that needs to be taught is that not every question in life has a definitive answer yet.
At the point that this fact is taught, if someone still believes in a deity then they are indeed a wildly irrational person.

Which exaclty shows the point that atheism is taught and based on influence by society, not theism.

[Oliver]

At the point that this fact is taught, if someone still believes in a deity then they are indeed a wildly irrational person.

Or someone who sees (or wants to see) life as more than just a bunch of biological processes and refuses to accept that everything ceases to be once they stop.
The idea of an afterlife or even reincarnation gives people something to strive for, a reason to live, even. If life's completely pointless, might as well end it now instead of dicking around for 70 years waiting to kick the bucket.

There have been plenty of people who've managed to cure their alcoholism, depression or any other ailment due to turning to religion. Are you saying that those people are irrational and would've been better off remaining depressed?

[Pandalink]

The idea of an afterlife or even reincarnation gives people something to strive for, a reason to live, even. If life's completely pointless, might as well end it now instead of dicking around for 70 years waiting to kick the bucket.

This thinking is incredibly sad, and a terrible view on life. Why not live life for life, rather than for some fantasy afterlife?
Also, are you saying that the only "reason to live" and the only point in life is an afterlife? Because that makes me fucking sad.

There have been plenty of people who've managed to cure their alcoholism, depression or any other ailment due to turning to religion. Are you saying that those people are irrational and would've been better off remaining depressed?

Having to turn to religion to cure depression is deeply disturbing. I find it difficult to accept that someone could be so emotionally destroyed that they throw any kind of rationality out of the window in favour of a quick fix. Of course I'm not saying that they should've remained depressed, but they should find a way to solve their issues properly, rather than doing what essentially amounts to applying a band-aid.

[Oliver]

Having to turn to religion to cure depression is deeply disturbing. I find it difficult to accept that someone could be so emotionally destroyed that they throw any kind of rationality out of the window in favour of a quick fix. Of course I'm not saying that they should've remained depressed, but they should find a way to solve their issues properly, rather than doing what essentially amounts to applying a band-aid.

I'm willing to bet all my money that you would turn religious if you were to survive a near-death experience.

Every time I've actually prayed when things have gone to shit, they've gotten better almost immediately afterwards. It could be a coincidence, it could be the extra willpower I got from that sort of mentality, but I choose to believe it was some sort of a divine intervention. Of course, an "educated" and "rational" atheist such as yourself would be quick to brand it as "HAHA YOU BELIEVE IN FAIRY TALES".

This thinking is incredibly sad, and a terrible view on life. Why not live life for life, rather than for some fantasy afterlife?
Also, are you saying that the only "reason to live" and the only point in life is an afterlife? Because that makes me f**king sad.

"I have cancer. I'm going to die in 2 years anyways. Might as well go on a rampage and go out with a bang, it's not like I'm going to be judged for it or anything, since once I die, nothing matters anymore."

[Maxy]

Or someone who sees (or wants to see) life as more than just a bunch of biological processes and refuses to accept that everything ceases to be once they stop.
The idea of an afterlife or even reincarnation gives people something to strive for, a reason to live, even. If life's completely pointless, might as well end it now instead of dicking around for 70 years waiting to kick the bucket.

You can't choose how you want to see life. Life is exactly the way it is. It is a series of facts and a "choice" to the contrary is irrational because it is highly improbable.

That being said, the only rationally correct standpoint is Agnostic Atheism. Rational because it accepts that it is impossible to know with 100 percent certainty that there is a God, but recognizing that it is quite highly unlikely. Not only that but religion is highly convoluted and according to occam's razor, non-belief is the best, most logical option.

I'm willing to bet all my money that you would turn religious if you were to survive a near-death experience.

You don't know Panda very well, do you?

"I have cancer. I'm going to die in 2 years anyways. Might as well go on a rampage and go out with a bang, it's not like I'm going to be judged for it or anything, since once I die, nothing matters anymore."

Why do you assume all atheists are immoral? If a person has the capacity to do something like this, it's only a matter of time before he actually does it.

[Pandalink]

I'm willing to bet all my money that you would turn religious if you were to survive a near-death experience.

I'm sorry, but I'd have to bet against you.

It could be a coincidence, it could be the extra willpower I got from that sort of mentality, but I choose to believe it was some sort of a divine intervention. Of course, an "educated" and "rational" atheist such as yourself would be quick to brand it as "HAHA YOU BELIEVE IN FAIRY TALES".

And again I'm sorry, but yes pretty much. The first two possibilities you suggested (particularly the second one) seem far more plausible and make more sense than the fairly arbitrary third.

"I have cancer. I'm going to die in 2 years anyways. Might as well go on a rampage and go out with a bang, it's not like I'm going to be judged for it or anything, since once I die, nothing matters anymore."

I would say to that person that some of us aren't psychopaths with only the fear of hell to stop us from murdering other people.
The person in the quote would have no personal problem with murdering other people. The person in the quote is an evil person.

[Oliver]

And again I'm sorry, but yes pretty much. The first two possibilities you suggested (particularly the second one) seem far more plausible and make more sense than the fairly arbitrary third.

Yet the third option makes me feel far better and more satisfied than the first two. A fair trade in my opinion.

I would say to that person that some of us aren't psychopaths with only the fear of hell to stop us from murdering other people.
The person in the quote would have no personal problem with murdering other people. The person in the quote is an evil person.

Yeah, it was a really bad example.

[Pandalink]

Yet the third option makes me feel far better and more satisfied than the first two. A fair trade in my opinion.

For me, the second option would make me feel far better, because it would imply that I did it myself. I would feel stronger for overcoming the adversity with my own hands and will than with the help of some higher being.

[Maxy]

Yet the third option makes me feel far better and more satisfied than the first two. A fair trade in my opinion.

Doesn't change the fact that it's irrational.

[Gandalf]

Or someone who sees (or wants to see) life as more than just a bunch of biological processes and refuses to accept that everything ceases to be once they stop.
The idea of an afterlife or even reincarnation gives people something to strive for, a reason to live, even. If life's completely pointless, might as well end it now instead of dicking around for 70 years waiting to kick the bucket.

There have been plenty of people who've managed to cure their alcoholism, depression or any other ailment due to turning to religion. Are you saying that those people are irrational and would've been better off remaining depressed?

As I have mentioned one of the most powerful key elements in religion is hope.
The hope that what you are lacking now will be present in the afterlife (like 72 women to  bang ).
This hope is what is used to control you, and I do not just mean control in the form of stopping you from crime. It also stops you from revolting against those with power who you see as evil, as they will be judged later.

Religion is a focus point. To cure depression or addiction giving someone a point of focus is often enough.
It is simlar to parent promising a big present to children if they reach their diploma or large imporvement of grades. Except this present is free.

Also note that atheism does not deny the possibility of supernatural powers existing. It just denies that there are omnipowerful and omnipresent powers who control our lives.

As for religion being irrational, humans generally are extremely irrational. Ask Mr Spock.