To EVERY criminal

[duffman]

Same rules apply to everyone. It does not matter if they are old or new, if they do not follow the rules they get banned.

=/=
Same consequences apply to everyone. It does not matter if they are criminals or suspects, if they do not follow the rules they get banned/punished.

Am I fully right?

[Gandalf]

I noticed the underground brigade from other servers that joins every topic in which they can shit has turned up again.

This is one single warning: everyone who throws in generalisations without actually being active is going to be permanently lose their chance to shit us here.

[Gandalf]

Ok now to the subject. First of all I do not doubt the story of Cofi or any other who claims to be abused.
The thing is that I never encounter it myself, and no do not tell that it is because I am owner as I do use accounts that have no admin rights at all. (inb4 ban for multi-accounting)

The thing is that I see no logic in how its handled.

To Cofi: One guy gets suspected. Did it ever occur to anyone to let this guy /gu AT ONCE, then let one guy go to the PD to get him, and meanwhile you can continue. Nope, in reality all will get out with weapons, making the cop feel threatened and causing all to be suspected. And in fact the fastest way is to get jailed at once, a 180 second jail time is much less as any investigation. But its your pride that gets in the way of logic. Understandable but not logical.

The problem is that there is no respect between cops and criminals, and while neither side makes an effort to develop it, nothing will change. Even a very different base script might just lead to more whining, as players seem to distrust anyone except their own group.

[saberman]

Nice one. Categorizing cops?
Why don't you categorize the criminal? Why don't you categorize criminals into Gvardia,corleone,Balla then?
Why you generalize all of them into "general criminal"?

Why do I generalize all of them in to general criminals?
I mean most of the criminals because of the subject that's being talked about.
And what are you talking about categorizing cops? ARPD and SAPD are already separate categories. I just said my opinion about the average rule-breakers.

Post Merge: June 22, 2012, 04:39:17 pmDefine justice.
Define justice?Are you Fking kidding me?
Go grab a dictionary and learn what it means instead of showing how naive people who need a defintion of justice are.

No need to get mad. I asked you that question because you were saying that because the administration says most of the criminals on the daily basis consists of rulebreakers (you don't know what's being discussed on the admin boards) which is true because we do face a lot of reports about DM. Now, you were saying because we made this generalization we will not provide justice to the criminals and the cops and therefore insinuating we are biased. Which does not make sense at all, and you do not know how the HQ is with biased admins.

I really don't understand why you want to "bad girl" here about rule-breakers, while you have admin rights. As far as I am concerned, you are always free to resign, if you can't do your job properly. 

Who's bad girling about the rule breakers? And what are you saying about me not doing the job properly? Where did you take that from?

So what you do when you are on admin. duty? One of this choises.
[ ] You can't do your job, because you just don't do it.
or
[ ] Your taking favoritism to the police.
Now I see what the administration think about police.

Neither. The cops' issue is still irrelevant to the criminals one.

[duffman]

Neither. The cops' issue is still irrelevant to the criminals one.

Really?

[saberman]

Really?

The cops abusing and the criminals DMing are separate issues.

[duffman]

The cops abusing and the criminals DMing are separate issues.

So why everyone cares only about the criminals? That should have an explanation.

[Aksel]

It's not an excuse.

There is no such thing as "too many rule-breakers". But there is a thing called "not competent administration".

To be honest, on SA-MP I ignore 90% of players who attempt to role-play with me because it's boring and repetitive. When they say "hello sir" I already know it's going be a waste of time. I don't want to RP the same situation for the 5000^th time and I don't. However, I never ignore those who have to interact with me as a result of my actions. I also don't kill cops for fun and I do my best not to break the rules. Check out my 2012 punishment record, if you want.

There actually are criminals who don't get /suspected and commit crimes while wearing a white name. Any scripted law enforcement organizations, who hunt down orange names, will never be able to do anything to them. There are also many players who registered around 2006-2009 and still don't know how to use /me, yet call themselves veterans. Contrary to the popular belief, newcomers are not the ones to blame for the lack of RP in Argonath. Most newbies don't stay anyway.

There was a lack of RP in the "glorious MTA:VC days", there is a lack of RP today. Not much changed since then. It's not actually a problem, it's the way Argonath is. The owners give players enough freedom to do almost anything they want and that's very kind of them. No one is actually forced to do anything. You can spend the whole day driving around or talking on /p instead of role-playing. It's allowed.

I really don't understand why you want to "bad girl" here about rule-breakers, while you have admin rights. As far as I am concerned, you are always free to resign, if you can't do your job properly. 

Oh my god. I love you, papa.

[Gandalf]

=/=
Same consequences apply to everyone. It does not matter if they are criminals or suspects, if they do not follow the rules they get banned/punished.

Am I fully right?

Absolutely. Only cops get the chance to become criminal DMer if they are banned from duty. :razz:
A 'criminalban' where you are not able to carry any weapon has been suggested though.... :rules:

[duffman]

A 'criminalban' where you are not able to carry any weapon has been suggested though.... :rules:

[Exterminator]

Ok now to the subject. First of all I do not doubt the story of Cofi or any other who claims to be abused.
The thing is that I never encounter it myself, and no do not tell that it is because I am owner as I do use accounts that have no admin rights at all. (inb4 ban for multi-accounting)

The thing is that I see no logic in how its handled.

To Cofi: One guy gets suspected. Did it ever occur to anyone to let this guy /gu AT ONCE, then let one guy go to the PD to get him, and meanwhile you can continue. Nope, in reality all will get out with weapons, making the cop feel threatened and causing all to be suspected. And in fact the fastest way is to get jailed at once, a 180 second jail time is much less as any investigation. But its your pride that gets in the way of logic. Understandable but not logical.

The problem is that there is no respect between cops and criminals, and while neither side makes an effort to develop it, nothing will change. Even a very different base script might just lead to more whining, as players seem to distrust anyone except their own group.

The problem is that both the groups are against eachother, and think the other one is a culprit. And yes, 99 percent of all the moaning comes FROM AND BY players who have been here for over a year.

When i was in SAPD, i always thought of the "criminals" as orange dots just looking for a shootout.
When i am in ancelotti, i always think of the cops just looking to join/get promoted in SAPD.

And the thing is, neither of them are false.
Are they looking for a shootout?Ofcourse! This game is GTA, one of the most violent games, what do you expect, a barbie doll meetup?

What does despise me is how the players who are the "official" ones, are always chasing rank, i used to too. For example, a average arrest by a ARPD officer is to just /gu and get jailed. By a SAPD officer is to usually get parked, then have him do tens of /me commands on you for his screenshots and patrol reports, and you cant exactly do anything about it, so you just gotta wait it out and this usually goes for over 30 mins.

Its all /me frisks, /me cuffs me this me that and then the players always admin-punished if they get pissed off and decide to quit the game, what do you expect? For them to run to the cops and shout OMG I LOVE YOU FOR MOANING ON MY ASS?

Personally, the system was all well and good till the SAPD came along. Tell me, do you remember these problems before the SAPD became a scripted group, and soon enough became a group that pisses everybody off with forced RolePlay?
The best solution i see to this is to just de-script the entire SAPD, but i doubt my SAPD pals would want to loose their free smg.

[Hevar.]

Solve the abuse problem?

Remove ARPD/Freecop

and keep SAPD =) Then Done no copabusing only people with experince have apply for cop job.

[Cyril]

A 'criminalban' where you are not able to carry any weapon has been suggested though.... :rules:

Good to see that my idea has been heard

[Cofiliano]

To Cofi: One guy gets suspected. Did it ever occur to anyone to let this guy /gu AT ONCE, then let one guy go to the PD to get him, and meanwhile you can continue. Nope, in reality all will get out with weapons, making the cop feel threatened and causing all to be suspected. And in fact the fastest way is to get jailed at once, a 180 second jail time is much less as any investigation. But its your pride that gets in the way of logic. Understandable but not logical.

That one guy is shocked that he got suspected for obeying the law, and cause he didn't do anything bad. While he's in the state of shock

Another cop who's close to it, instantly suspects the other people in the car for aiding.

Now they are shocked can't believe the guy just went total retard on them, ruining their roleplay and their plans,
so they tried having a reasonable conversation asking why did he do that:

While the criminal members were typing : 'Wtf man, abuse, we didnt do shit why you suspect us' their tires were already taken down 'just in case'.

And the story continues.

My point is that until there are some real restrictions about usage of /su ( cause with it, you can force a person to waste his 20-25 minutes of playing when ever you want, maybe even more if there's no High rank Officer online simple as doing /su id "speeding"), things will not change no matter how much we as veterans and admin try forcing the rules on people, cause criminals/suspects feels like they're  the citizens of second row on Argonath, and then we create people full of hate.

I know you're not gonna change your opinion or anyting about the current way the system of police is working, I've accepted that back in 2008, but then all of this are just the concenquences of that system cause:

Now tell me  how many times should 'method number 1'happen in a row, to a group of young teenage people full of puberty, before they gonna lose their nuts, get a "f**k this shit" attitude etc?

This is what a friend of mine, who returned on Argonath after few years said via msn, while I was writing this reply(and we weren't even talking before this):

freecop = pro shit
 suspect people for no reason
 dm them
 get 500$
 make the suspect reason look valid
 "Evading, Aiding "
 So when they bad girl over /p
 Admins say
 VALID REASON

Also its not a pride thing, its a thing of fairness and justice, people dont like when they are being treated unfair, they dont like when they can be constantly push around when ever some cop gets an idea of "Oh look ideal situation for taking a shit on those guys", and  they are aware that, they will be the ones who will end up being screwed at the end of the story.

[TheRock]

Are you accusing me of being a copbaiter and a moaner? If not, then change the title.

Nope, I'm not doing you any favour, and if you don't like the topic, get out simple

Solve the abuse problem?

Remove ARPD/Freecop

and keep SAPD =) Then Done no copabusing only people with experince have apply for cop job.

Oh, how about remove the cop system and suspection/ammunation scripts too?