Constructive criticism

[Ratko Gavrilovic]

Where do I have to begin?
There are way too many issues to discuss.

Also let's make it clear that this is not a moan topic but an attempt to revive the server.
If you don't appreciate help, you're going to fall.

The veterans among us may know that the server now is different from when we joined.
Why? Lack of roleplay / no roleplay in the server. It has been said a thousand times, want RP? RP yourself. How are we supposed to roleplay if we are being obstructed by admins who make bad decisions and rulebreakers ruining roleplay?
Let's start with reports. Nobody is looking in most of the reports, they are being ignored, fact. Don't even try to deny this. Countless of times I had to report hackers, rammers, deathmatchers, did someone look into my report after 5 times? No. Now you may say it's due to the lack of admins. In that case RECRUIT new ones. Around 4 admins to overview over 100 players is madness. This is allowing rulebreakers to roam the server. One of the things obstructing roleplay. Also if there is concrete evidence of someone rulebreaking, punish him / her. Too many times I see someone writing, flaming in full caps and mis-using /ad, nothing happened.
I saw people shitting on the server, flaming the admins in full caps; only a kick. For real? By doing that you are allowing rulebreakers to stay on this server.

Argonath should be open to constructive criticism. Countless of topics containing this got locked, deleted and their advise got ignored. No wonder a lot of veterans left the server. They became sick of not being listened to. I myself have also reccomended something to increase RP, it got ignored. Now let me ask are you even trying?

So let's see.
I am sure that I forgot something important, but it will come to my mind.. At least if this topic won't be locked / trashed in only minutes.
This is not moaning or shitting on the server, it's trying to revive actual roleplay how it was back in the days. So many flaws are being ignored.
I have spoken about this to many, many people, and the players do agree that the server is falling apart.
Isn't it time for change?

Want to discuss? Let's do it with the whole community.
Wanna lock this and ignore the issues? I know I am out.

[Reece]

Also let's make it clear that this is not a moan topic but an attempt to revive the server.

Which server are you talking about? I would assume SA:MP as you play there the most.

The veterans among us may know that the server now is different from when we joined.

In your opinion, what makes a "veteran"?

Let's start with reports. Nobody is looking in most of the reports

Define: "Most"?

What you need to remember is that admins are busy, and we handle reports in the order of importance, not the order they are reported in. So for example, if a person is reported for DM and say, 5 seconds before there was a report for ramming, the DM report would take priority and be handled first.

Also if there is concrete evidence of someone rulebreaking, punish him / her. Too many times I see someone writing, flaming in full caps and mis-using /ad, nothing happened.

This already happens. Just because YOU haven't seen the three punishments you can see (warn kick (temp)ban) does not mean nothing has happened.

I saw people shitting on the server, flaming the admins in full caps; only a kick. For real? By doing that you are allowing rulebreakers to stay on this server.

Admins will hand out the punishment that is correct in their opinion, we don't have some super strict list of punishments for each rule break.

Argonath should be open to constructive criticism. Countless of topics containing this got locked, deleted and their advise got ignored.

If it is constructive and not a moan/hating/rage thread it will most likely stay open.

No wonder a lot of veterans left the server. They became sick of not being listened to.

People come and go, it's a part of life. Do remember this isn't a democracy, so even if a majority of people want something, it doesn't guarantee it being added.

Wanna lock this and ignore the issues? I know I am out.

So if your thread gets locked, you will leave the server? Seems a little childish to me.

[Shejken]

Well, Argonath is world of its own, not a SRS BSNS roleplay server. There are alot those servers, which you can freely join and roleplay starting engine of vehicle for four hours.

Reports getting ignored? I haven't seen many reports which got ignored. Sometimes admins doesn't even respond them, but observes the situation. Sometimes the player doesn't get punished, because admins aren't here to punish, but to teach and make sure everyone are aware of the rules, and obeying them.

And yeah, must admit there are not many admins online on different timezones. But recruiting wouldn't be the solution. Managers are doing daily, deep view on chatlogs and making sure hackers do not roam around server for too long.

But if you wish to leave, go on. We do not force you to say here..

[Leon.]

This is going to be very bad.

[Biggo2]

Well, Argonath is world of its own, not a SRS BSNS roleplay server. There are alot those servers, which you can freely join and roleplay starting engine of vehicle for four hours.

Reports getting ignored? I haven't seen many reports which got ignored. Sometimes administrations doesn't even respond them, but observes the situation. Sometimes the player doesn't get punished, because admins aren't here to punish, but to teach and make sure everyone are aware of the rules, and obeying them.

And yeah, must admit there are not many admins online on different timezones. But recruiting wouldn't be the solution. Managers are doing daily, deep view on chatlogs and making sure hackers do not roam around server for too long.

But if you wish to leave, go on. We do not force you to say here..

We're not suggesting this server to be serious, why the fuck can't you get it out of your heads? These topics are made from the concern of the veterans that actually care about the server, or the community in general. People like you don't want 'change', you completely ignore the fact that we WANT to help the server with constructive criticism. It's understanding how admins can't be online 24/7 and throughout different timezones, but some of them need to shape up and learn how to control their actual powers to moderate the server. At this point someone is going to be as ignorant as to tell me to send an e-mail to [email protected] or even give a forum ban, but god just listen to what we have to say. More and more dedicated people are leaving because the server's changing into one massive ball of clusterfuck whogivesashitaboutRP.

And to mention, you shouldn't have a stupid come back like *You as the people of Argonath TEACH players how to roleplay, but you don't.* As groups such as Gvardia and Stracci are trying their best to overcome stupid moronic gameplay that completely destroys the server's atmosphere, and teach people how to interact within roleplay. In my opinion, and I'm sure most, the SAPD/ARPD should be doing the same.

[.Tony]

Miker's & Puppi's post says everything I had to say here.

[Morais]

2.   Argonath gives equal rights to new, experienced and admin players. We do not discriminate between players, and having admin rights or being a long time player does not give any of our players rights to act as better, higher or having more status as another.

Argonath Vision

By the way, how can you prove that you're being ignored? Administrators don't ever stop, when on duty. I agree some of them may be neglecting a bit the work, but again I don't have much to complain about. Like you said 4 administrators for 100 people, sometimes even more. But the administration team is Quality over quantity I believe. I don't think when you /admins and see 10 guys it will mean the server is better moderated.
The problem about the so called "veterans" is that they don't give any other ideas, criticizing is cool, but what about making something about it? You talk about change, I'll quote JCS " Lead by Example" . Also... about the admins [email protected].

This is only my opinion, I'll be glad to debate.

[Ratko Gavrilovic]

Can't correctly quote, I'm on a phone.

Which server are you talking about? I would assume SA:MP as you play there the most.

In your opinion, what makes a "veteran"?

Define: "Most"?

What you need to remember is that admins are busy, and we handle reports in the order of importance, not the order they are reported in. So for example, if a person is reported for DM and say, 5 seconds before there was a report for ramming, the DM report would take priority and be handled first.

This already happens. Just because YOU haven't seen the three punishments you can see (warn kick (temp)ban) does not mean nothing has happened.

Admins will hand out the punishment that is correct in their opinion, we don't have some super strict list of punishments for each rule break.

If it is constructive and not a moan/hating/rage thread it will most likely stay open.
People come and go, it's a part of life. Do remember this isn't a democracy, so even if a majority of people want something, it doesn't guarantee it being added.

So if your thread gets locked, you will leave the server? Seems a little childish to me.

Any server, but sure especially SAMP because of the playerbase.

A veteran in this case would be an oldtimer who wants to rebuild what is broken.

Most reports as in, all of my reports and those of the players around me.

Hire more admins perhaps?

Yes because admin jail teaches someone of his mistakes.

A kick is not enough for a severe rulebreak.

Let's hope.

I am talking about veterans leaving because they are not being listened to.
Have some respect for players on who this server was built.

If the issues are still to be ignored and pretended as if everything is alright, then I have nothing to do here.

Well, Argonath is world of its own, not a SRS BSNS roleplay server. There are alot those servers, which you can freely join and roleplay starting engine of vehicle for four hours.

Reports getting ignored? I haven't seen many reports which got ignored. Sometimes admins doesn't even respond them, but observes the situation. Sometimes the player doesn't get punished, because admins aren't here to punish, but to teach and make sure everyone are aware of the rules, and obeying them.

And yeah, must admit there are not many admins online on different timezones. But recruiting wouldn't be the solution. Managers are doing daily, deep view on chatlogs and making sure hackers do not roam around server for too long.

But if you wish to leave, go on. We do not force you to say here..

This is a roleplay server.
It might be low/medium but that is no reason to not roleplay.

All reports should get an answer.
Admins too busy? Hire more.

There should be around 15 admins at least to keep the server safe.
Why spend time on later chatlogs if you can prevent it?

Almost here for 4 years, that's why I wanted to make this topic as an eye opener.

We're not suggesting this server to be serious, why the f**k can't you get it out of your heads? These topics are made from the concern of the veterans that actually care about the server, or the community in general. People like you don't want 'change', you completely ignore the fact that we WANT to help the server with constructive criticism. It's understanding how admins can't be online 24/7 and throughout different timezones, but some of them need to shape up and learn how to control their actual powers to moderate the server. At this point someone is going to be as ignorant as to tell me to send an e-mail to [email protected] or even give a forum ban, but god just listen to what we have to say. More and more dedicated people are leaving because the server's changing into one massive ball of clusterf**k whogivesashitaboutRP.

And to mention, you shouldn't have a stupid come back like *You as the people of Argonath TEACH players how to roleplay, but you don't.* As groups such as Gvardia and Stracci are trying their best to overcome stupid moronic gameplay that completely destroys the server's atmosphere, and teach people how to interact within roleplay. In my opinion, and I'm sure most, the SAPD/ARPD should be doing the same.

Amen.
We're not here to shit but to show our care.
It's the ignorant people that are not open to change that are wrong here.

Argonath Vision

By the way, how can you prove that you're being ignored? Administrators don't ever stop, when on duty. I agree some of them may be neglecting a bit the work, but again I don't have much to complain about. Like you said 4 administrators for 100 people, sometimes even more. But the administration team is Quality over quantity I believe. I don't think when you /admins and see 10 guys it will mean the server is better moderated.
The problem about the so called nullveteransnull is that they don't give any other ideas, criticizing is cool, but what about making something about it? You talk about change, I'll quote JCS null Lead by Examplenull . Also... about the admins [email protected].

This is only my opinion, I'll be glad to debate.

I have sent mails to that adress.
No change, no improvements.
Once again we're here for the sake of Argonath.
Do you really think these topics are made for fun?

[Zaila]

wants to rebuild what is broken.

This parts is interesting me. What exactly are broken and needs to be rebuilt, and can you back up your statement with solid facts?

I will take and respond on some of your questions.

The veterans among us may know that the server now is different from when we joined.

Everything changes, it might not be in a way which YOU dont like.

Let's start with reports. Nobody is looking in most of the reports, they are being ignored, fact. Don't even try to deny this.

And can you proove it with solid facts and not opinions?

Argonath should be open to constructive criticism. Countless of topics containing this got locked, deleted and their advise got ignored. No wonder a lot of veterans left the server. They became sick of not being listened to. I myself have also reccomended something to increase RP, it got ignored. Now let me ask are you even trying?

You are right, constructive criticism is always good, and i bet that even the owners wont deny that. But the big problem is, not many here is able to give constructive criticism, and with that, evidence of their points. The problem with your topic is that you are attempting to give out constructive criticism, but you are giving out what YOUR opinion are. You are stating points which you see as a problem without any knowledge how it will look from the administration teams point of view, which makes us disagree what you are bringing up.

Get solid facts for your statements, then we can talk.

[Ratko Gavrilovic]

This parts is interesting me. What exactly are broken and needs to be rebuilt, and can you back up your statement with solid facts?

The roleplay is broken if you haven't noticed.
Want facts? Enter the server and see if there are either dedicated roleplayers or moneyhungry moaners.

[Morais]

They aren't for fun, most of them are used to enumerate all the flaws around. But again 0 ideas are given, apart of "Hire more admins".

Also let's make it clear that this is not a moan topic but an attempt to revive the server.
If you don't appreciate help, you're going to fall.

Argonath is made by players and for players, also why are you trying to revive something that's not dead?

How are we supposed to roleplay if we are being obstructed by admins who make bad decisions and rulebreakers ruining roleplay?

How can a bad decision influenced your role-play? Shoot out and banned for DM?

I saw people shitting on the server, flaming the admins in full caps; only a kick. For real? By doing that you are allowing rulebreakers to stay on this server.

The administrators have a guide of punishment, I believe so... they won't just distribute bans for everyone that rule breaks

Argonath should be open to constructive criticism. Countless of topics containing this got locked, deleted and their advise got ignored. No wonder a lot of veterans left the server. They became sick of not being listened to. I myself have also reccomended something to increase RP, it got ignored. Now let me ask are you even trying?

Can you tell me what topics? The ones who don't like the community, leave, of course, it's their right! But again, we only miss the ones who are actually here, and fight to keep this project alive.

I am sure that I forgot something important, but it will come to my mind.. At least if this topic won't be locked / trashed in only minutes.

What's left to say? Like you said thousands of topics were created... don't you think the guys got the idea already?

[Zaila]

The roleplay is broken if you haven't noticed.
Want facts? Enter the server and see if there are either dedicated roleplayers or moneyhungry moaners.

Me as a admin is seeing MUCH more then you do, and i can definitly say that the roleplay is not dead.

I have updated my previous post.

[Witchking]

Everyone claiming reports are ignored, i have never seen such a stupid comment, you should right now change that view, every report is readed and decided if its important or not! alteas half of them are invalid and wrong reports.
 
Then the real reports are readed and taken action on, just that you dont get an text saying it gets looked into, does not mean it don't.  also in this view you sharing about it, just show you reports cause you want to see the punishments.

But most of punishments are not official... and yes, your pointless view of this and point of that stupid comment just show you don't know what you talking about. 

[Reece]

Well I'm not sure what server you are playing on but I see roleplay every where are look... of course, there are some money hungry people, some people who don't do a lot of roleplay, some who break the rules, some who hack, sometimes there aren't any admins online, sometimes there are some reports that go un answered. Don't even try to tell me this isn't present on any other server.

A veteran in this case would be an oldtimer who wants to rebuild what is broken.

So a veteran in your opinion is only a person who wants to change the server?

A kick is not enough for a severe rulebreak.

Define: "Severe"

I am talking about veterans leaving because they are not being listened to.
Have some respect for players on who this server was built.

I respect those who follow the rules, have creative roleplay, help the server and help new players, all in all decent people, I don't care what your /whenmade is or your registration date on the forums, if you are one who regularly follows the rules and goes out of their way to try and help others where they can, I will respect you.

If you sit and break the rules, then sorry, but you wont have my respect. (Note that this is a general reference and not directed at you)

[Morais]

The roleplay is broken if you haven't noticed.
Want facts? Enter the server and see if there are either dedicated roleplayers or moneyhungry moaners.

Broken? You must be in the wrong server. Thousands of role-play situations are made by multiple players in the server. From A.R.P.D. to Gvardia ( Random organisations, just giving an example)