The thing why our gameplay sometimes is ruined

[ANUNNAKI]

I watched this whole event from a bystanders perspective. I tried to get involved in the RP but the cops ignored me as they were set to kill. ( check chat logs, they said it themselves. ) Normally when a person has the "opposition" on the phone, cops would jump all over that, instead you stayed aiming at the door, while one guy stood next to it holding a spray can. Someone saw me trying to get involved in the RP, so they called the cops out on it on /em and they got tempbanned for provoking...Is this what we really want here? I mean it's f.ucking pathetic how both sides act towards each other.

Chris may I ask what you were thinking going in basically on your own? You're not Rambo, you knew damn well before you entered that building you were going to get killed. I truthfully see this from Gvardias point of view, they're criminals, at their OWN club, protecting THEIR CUSTOMERS. What mafia is going to let police walk in and hurt their business? Especially some lone cop who thinks he can take on the world. When it comes down to it, criminals protect criminals and this is what Gvardia was doing, protecting their business and own personal interests.

About 5min after the ban I witnessed 2 cops TAB abuse off of Jizzy's roof, I /reported and nothing was done about it, I even had a admin say "I'm only responding to your report cause I have a crush on you.".... This I find to be outrageous and inappropriate. 

Another thing, check i9's logs of their CB channel, they tried calling several officers and letting them know about demands and the situation inside, but all calls were rejected by the police, just as the police rejected my RP. I recall several people in the channel stating this...





 :ps:
Gandalf if you happen to read this, remember that PM I sent you about language barriers on rules? I think this fits the description to the tee. There's a thin line of DM/Not DM here, so I guess it's really up to the admin, but an admin who just got killed, there's emotion behind it.

[Teddy]

2nd Amendment still exists 

You do realize if you are asked to leave private territory you are obliged to do it, even if you are an officer? You MUST have a warrant from higher authorities to get into private property without host's permission.


The problem is, it's a game. If a gangster IG gets inside a club, there's nothing much you can do other than tell him to sod off or beat him up to death for not complying, killing in the process most of the times.

Wrong.

1. Probable Cause - If the officer suspects crime maybe taking place or evidence and without a reasonable doubt believes this too be true he may enter the premisses.
2. Is a suspect inside? - If a suspect is in the property, he has the right to enter and contain that suspect. Any other crime present in his attempt to apprehend is valid evidence and can be suspected thus force.

Also, the second amendment doesn't exist in Argonath. Well it isn't called that. However, the right to bare arms means to have. Not kill someone.
Security guards are unofficial enforcement personnel, thus if they commit an act of murder or any other crime they will be investigated to the full extent of the law until proven guilty, or found innocent.

However, given the situation provided appears that this was not exactly the case. Seems a hopped up cop just wanted some attention in my view but then again I don't have the full story so it really can't be too clear.

[Morais]

walloftext

Explain me from the criminals point of view, what kind of role play is having 30 guys aiming at a door for 15 minutes killing everything that enters?
I was inside has a cop, I told the criminals to leave so they won't disturb the party, everything was ignored. Cops didn't shot suspects because civilians were around. So we were professional, and it ended in a TDM event. I'm waiting for moaning topics about how cops fail to role play.

[Kirgiz]

Actually you don't need warrant to enter private property if : been reported there is an possible crime activity,suspects.  So in no way security is able remove officers from building if it's filled up with suspects like can of sardines.  And even if security dislikes officers and are willing remove them by a force they need first verbally warn about incoming threat and reason of it. Just because your in your family's property and you protect it,doesn't means automatically you can kill anyone on your way.

We haven't been verbally spoken by anyone of suspects,or civilians who assaulted us.  The only talking ones were guns.

No hard feelings, I'm not trying to judge anyone here, just saying.

Wrong.

1. Probable Cause - If the officer suspects crime maybe taking place or evidence and without a reasonable doubt believes this too be true he may enter the premisses.
2. Is a suspect inside? - If a suspect is in the property, he has the right to enter and contain that suspect. Any other crime present in his attempt to apprehend is valid evidence and can be suspected thus force.

Also, the second amendment doesn't exist in Argonath. Well it isn't called that. However, the right to bare arms means to have. Not kill someone.
Security guards are unofficial enforcement personnel, thus if they commit an act of murder or any other crime they will be investigated to the full extent of the law until proven guilty, or found innocent.

However, given the situation provided appears that this was not exactly the case. Seems a hopped up cop just wanted some attention in my view but then again I don't have the full story so it really can't be too clear.

Neither can I. I didn't actually try to prove a point, I just tried to argue with the quoted message that he's not entirely right. I did not seek to provide any insight on the situation at all, 'tis all. After all, commenting is allowed 

[Toto]

To all toilet papers that don't even know what happens and keep protecting Chris.

Ok let's clear a thing by thing.

Since when does 'security' gets the right to kill an officer?

If a gangster enters a club and you don't point him to the door, it is your mistake, since security provides SAFETY to the people inside, not to KEEP OUT cops from the scene.
Either way, if that is your 'view' on roleplay I should not even ask why the hell 20 people were aiming their gun at a spawn for about 30 minutes to kill every blue blip that got in?

Complain only when you were abused, not when you are banned for something you actually did, Chris was absolutely right about your tempban. You can't simply go kill cops because you guard people inside; That's the exact opposite of providing security in the first place. In the second place, I think your 'guests' didn't even need actual security since they were all well armed themselves.

Drop this discussion here, your ban was entirely valid aswell as many others that were tempbanned for a similar reason after you.

Dude which gangster you're talking about ? The cops came and started attacking Enzo

cops are trying to arrest one of them, of cos, nonsense if other mafia members will stand and watch it... In this case members of mafia group will start to shoot back, trying to help the friend... It is ok...

About complain I have mentioned before read it once again:

This is not complain, I'm just asking how did I break rule, where's my mistake, so I can fix it in future.

Also I didn't guard peoples inside, I was protecting the peoples in same family with me. Not strangers.

I think your 'guests' didn't even need actual security since they were all well armed themselves.

I'M WORKING AS SECURITY OF JIZZY CLUB.

Ok done here with you.

SugarD

One issue I see...you're on a military "duty" roleplaying a military job, and you just said you killed a suspect. Last I heard, that was strictly disallowed unless SA:MP SAPD Command Staff gave you permission to do so.

As for the complaint, as was said, use the email if you think you were abused by admins. Remember man, moaning only makes it look bad for you too, and I know in your posting of this that it wasn't intended. Just take a breather, send in an email, close the topic, and go watch some TV while you await the outcome.

I'll use hooker skin and still I'll be security, problem ? I didn't killed suspect, I killed Chris, last you heard is that you failed to asskiss Chris.
As for the complaint

This is not complain, I'm just asking how did I break rule, where's my mistake, so I can fix it in future.

JUST ASKING HOW I AM SUPPOSED TO REACT IN FUTURE, SO I WON'T BEING PUNISHED AGAIN. Read the damn thing before posting like "you killed suspect" and what will happen if I kill suspect with army skin ? I'll receive copban ?

Done here with you too.

Chris now.

1. I entered left side stairway in no intention interrupt with Gvardia as I knew ur security as u own the bizz.

2. I proceed observe balla suspects from second floor when Enzo came from third floor apparently as suspect so he shot me. That's when I engaged on him .

3. I saw you approaching and started running around the wall giving you fair chance roleplay notify before engage.

4. While I proceed go behind a wall giving you time for roleplay,you took combat and shot me in a back as a civilian without any roleplay notify.

If you want to claim it was an well valid reason and you shouldn't have notified me,report me at email,if you opened topic for drama queen or because u were angry at certain point,then obviously topic gets locked. ok

Gvardia corporation is your HQ not Jayz club. Main fact your multiple members together doesn't automatically makes place were you are in an Gvardia HQ.

Which roleplay you want, it's already RPed. You cops rush inside the Jizzy, then suddenly saw shooting between you and Enzo what I'm supposed to do? To talk ? There's no needed of notifying you came INSIDE FOR SUSPECTS AT YOUR OWN RISK. Prove that I'm wrong. No brother, I won't report you just asking things I rulebreak to be explained so next time I won't repeat them. Gvardia Corporation is our Coropration (Queens), Gvardia HQ is Chinatown. That doesn't matter, we were all here (as RON mention), you're trying to kill one of our members so what you expect ?

nonsense if other mafia members will stand and watch it...

as I said you entered at your OWN risk.

[SugarD]

...last you heard is that you failed to asskiss Chris.

I don't even know who Chris is, but thank you for your comments. They are much appreciated.


As was said several times, use the email address ([email protected]) if you feel you were abused. This topic has obviously gone from a discussion regarding confusion, to a flame war.

Unless a SA:MP Manager feels this should be open, I am locking this to prevent any further arguing and provoking.

Have a wonderful day everyone.

[Gandalf]

:ps:
Gandalf if you happen to read this, remember that PM I sent you about language barriers on rules? I think this fits the description to the tee. There's a thin line of DM/Not DM here, so I guess it's really up to the admin, but an admin who just got killed, there's emotion behind it.

So you believe an admin who just got killed by a DMer is not allowed to punish? Mind if I facepalm?

Toto, if you were playing security you were doing a fucking poor job.
Security is supposed to protect the club from other criminals, not give them a place to have a shootout.
If a security guard gets suspected in his line of duty, for instance by killing someone who threatened the customers, he should report at once to the nearest police station and hope for clemency.
If cops are on the premises, he is to surrender AT ONCE.
Shooting a cop because you are security is simply DM using a fake reason to support.

I will check the logs, and a LOT of people may find themselves punished if it shows what I think it will.

[Kirgiz]

I will check the logs, and a LOT of people may find themselves punished if it shows what I think it will.

This will surely make my day! Please do!

[Ratko Gavrilovic]

Since when does 'security' gets the right to kill an officer?

If a gangster enters a club and you don't point him to the door, it is your mistake, since security provides SAFETY to the people inside, not to KEEP OUT cops from the scene.

Security was protecting the VIPs, both legally and ilegally.
The police force was there to cause havoc.
In other words, we were protecting the club from the police.

Either way, if that is your 'view' on roleplay I should not even ask why the hell 20 people were aiming their gun at a spawn for about 30 minutes to kill every blue blip that got in?

Don't act like a saint here, cops did the same to the criminals.

[Gandalf]

Security was protecting the VIPs, both legally and ilegally.
The police force was there to cause havoc.
In other words, we were protecting the club from the police.
Don't act like a saint here, cops did the same to the criminals.

Security can NEVER protect a suspect without DM.

[Ratko Gavrilovic]

Security can NEVER protect a suspect without DM.

And if warnings are given?

[Gandalf]

And if warnings are given?

Then you are luck admins only warned you.

[Ratko Gavrilovic]

Then you are luck admins only warned you.

No I mean what if the security warned the police force before opening fire?

[Gandalf]

No I mean what if the security warned the police force before opening fire?

Security is meant to prevent suspects being present, please explain how they could ever side with them.

[Ratko Gavrilovic]

Security is meant to prevent suspects being present, please explain how they could ever side with them.

The security was criminal security.
It wasn't official security obeying the law.