Memorial monument removed in Albanian populated town in Southern Serbia.

[Antonio.]

In the Albanian populated town of Preshevo in Southern Serbia, was added a monument in November 2012 in memory of the guerrillas who fought Serbian forces during the insurgency in the Preshevo Valley from 1999 to 2001. The monument included the names of the 28 soldiers killed during the insurgency as well as the coat of arms of the UCPMB (Albanian: Ushtria Çlirimtare e Presheves, Medvegjes dhe Bujanocit - English: Liberation Army of Preshevo, Medveda and Bujanovac.) The monument was placed in front of Preshevo's town hall in the town's center.

The government in Belgrade stated two months ago that the monument was illegal and should be removed by the Ethnic Albanians in Preshevo, just after Albania's 100th year celebration of independence, which was also celebrated in Preshevo. The government in Belgrade claims the monument is a provocation, although there are similar serbian monuments in Kosovo. Belgrade stated that "a memorial to an organisation of terrorists is not allowed." Fourteen young Serbs from Krushevc, Shabac and Belgrade were stopped near Nis on December 24, 2012 as they were heading to Preshevo to destroy the monument. The group claimed they were just visiting the city, but three from the group were in violation due to having metal weapons. The rest of them were released

After many deadlines and threats being given from the government in Belgrade, the monument was removed today by serbian special forces sent from Belgrade at around 7:00 AM. There were over 200 policemen in the center of Preshevo as the monument was being removed by bulldozers. Tensions have now rosen even more in Preshevo and former UCPMB commander Orhan Rexhepi told the reporters at the scene that this is a "historic day" and that he thanks Serbia "for giving Albanian councilors in three municipalities in southern Serbia a reason to voice their opinion on territorial autonomy."

This topic is not to show hatred against one another but just to discuss the situation and give opinions. Any flaming and unnecessary provoking will be reported. If you are going to comment "remove this topic because it is a sensitive subject" then don't post nor view the topic.

The monument:



Monument being removed:

Aksioni i xhandarmerisë serbe gjatë largimit të lapidarit

[Gandalf]

To be honest, I do not see why killing your brother deserves a monument.

[Antonio.]

To be honest, I do not see why killing your brother deserves a monument.

Elaborate.

[ElMartu]

If they want to honor people that killed serbians they should move away from Serbia. It kinda sucks that their ethnically albanian city is under Serbia, but their country, their rules. Everyone would be against this if, say, some muslim minority praised 9/11 in the United States.

Of course I'm speaking from an uneducated point of view I hardly know anything about albanians in Serbia

[Antonio.]

If they want to honor people that killed serbians they should move away from Serbia. It kinda sucks that their ethnically albanian city is under Serbia, but their country, their rules. Everyone would be against this if, say, some muslim minority praised 9/11 in the United States.

Of course I'm speaking from an uneducated point of view I hardly know anything about albanians in Serbia

Yes, but if you look at it like this, their rules are nothing but discrimination, because there's a similar monument in memory of the Serbian soldiers in a village of Bujanovac, which has an absolute Albanian majority. If that monument in Preshevo was a provocation, and was added where there are 99 percent Albanians, why is it allowed for a Serbian monument to be added in an area of 99 percent Albanians rather than adding it in where there a majority of Serbians? And yes, I do understand "their country, their rules" but to keep the ethnic tensions low and for Serbia to get closer to EU (let's not mention the problem with Kosovo) things can't be going on like this...

[Cofiliano]

The memorial monument was dedicated to an official registered terrorist organization.

Every country in the world would do the same on its soil, no matter who's ethnic majority is present there.

There's over 2000 destroyed Serbian Churches and Monasteries most of them older then 800-900 years on Kosovo who's currently not under Serbian Government power yet by Albanian majority leaders, and this is just a monument of an officially registered terrorist organization.

I also think the problem was since the monument was placed infront of the City Hall, downtown Preshevo, they should have just placed it on the cemetary or some similiar place.

Also there's the fact that  the monument was illegally build, without following the law procedure for it.
Post Merge: January 20, 2013, 05:55:07 pmAlso pointing this out one more time, for those who might have 'missed' it.

This topic is not to show hatred against one another but just to discuss the situation and give opinions. Any flaming and unnecessary provoking will be reported. If you are going to comment "remove this topic because it is a sensitive subject" then don't post nor view the topic.

[Antonio.]

The memorial monument was dedicated to an official registered terrorist organization.

Yes, I am sure to Serbia anyone who fights back or for freedom is a terrorist, and the civilians that are killed are terrorists and criminals, including the ones who are under an adult age. Or they can be a hero only if they did something like Ratko Mladic did...

Every country in the world would do the same on its soil, no matter who's ethnic majority is present there.

Alright, let's see how it would feel if Gazimestan or the monument similar in Mitrovica which is similar to the one that was in Preshevo.

There's over 2000 destroyed Serbian Churches and Monasteries most of them older then 800-900 years on Kosovo who's currently not under Serbian Government power yet by Albanian majority leaders, and this is just a monument of an officially registered terrorist organization.

Oh, Mosques were never destroyed by the Serbs? What happened to all those Mosques in those other Southern Serbia cities like in Nis, which is now all Serbs and only one mosque left, which is also ready to fall down?

I also think the problem was since the monument was placed infront of the City Hall, downtown Preshevo, they should have just placed it on the cemetary or some similiar place.

When you do that, we'll consider it.

Also there's the fact that  the monument was illegally build, without following the law procedure for it.

And that fact is? There's also the fact where a Serb created the names of the soldiers, their birthday, date they died and where they were from on the monument...

[Cofiliano]

Yes, I am sure to Serbia anyone who fights back or for freedom is a terrorist, and the civilians that are killed are terrorists and criminals, including the ones who are under an adult age. Or they can be a hero only if they did something like Ratko Mladic did...

You need to search for the definition of terrorist organization. Serbia delivered Ratko Mladic to the International Law Tribunal, your version of 'Ratko Mladic' aka Hashim Tachi is president of the unrecognised country Kosovo.

UCBMP was a terrorist organization who did terrorist acts mostly on civilian targets. Armies fight other Armies, its a big difference. And it was on CIA list of terrorist organization as well as on UN list, not on Serbia list only.

Alright, let's see how it would feel if Gazimestan or the monument similar in Mitrovica which is similar to the one that was in Preshevo.

Gazimestan is a religion monument that's old since the Kosovo battle of 1389. This is a monument of a terrorist organisation. You can't compare those two things, besides when Gaizmestan was build, there was no Albanians on Kosovo.

Oh, Mosques were never destroyed by the Serbs? What happened to all those Mosques in those other Southern Serbia cities like in Nis, which is now all Serbs and only one mosque left, which is also ready to fall down?
When you do that, we'll consider it.

2 Mosques were attacked in the entire territory of Serbia, after the massacres that happen to Kosovo Serbs in 2004.They were rebuild the same way. They're still there, open and working. That's not the case with over 2000 Churches/Monasteries who're protected by UNESCO cause its world's heritage. Not only that no one is rebuilding them, they're turned into public toilets, stable for cows/horses, and every attempt from individuals or Church, to ask permission to rebuild them is denied.

And that fact is? There's also the fact where a Serb created the names of the soldiers, their birthday, date they died and where they were from on the monument...

I dont see what's your point. When ever you wanna build something, you need construction permission, building permission, aka following the law procedure for it. None of it was done, and it was a 'wild built' called officially in the law.
Many peoples houses and such got removed cause of it, its the law you gotta follow it.

[Gandalf]

Elaborate.

I do not care if you call yourself Albanians, Serbians or Clownians. You all have been living there for the last 1000 years or so. And I am pretty sure that there is not a single family that does not have a member on the 'other side' somewhere. Wish to fight over who has the better imaginary friend? Stop calling it ethnic fights and tell that you want your religion to rule.

Russia has 136 ethnic groups and all religions of the world (though some are forbidden). While we often know ehtnic background from the name, we do not roll in the streets trying to separate all in to their own mountain.

Europe is doing its best to unite in order to stop the pointless fighting over little pieces of land, and you do the opposite. Time to reach the 21st century.

[Antonio.]

You need to search for the definition of terrorist organization. Serbia delivered Ratko Mladic to the International Law Tribunal, your version of 'Ratko Mladic' aka Hashim Tachi is president of the unrecognised country Kosovo.

Yes and you only hid him for what, 16 years? And the only reason you delivered him because you were informed that if he was caught, it would get Serbia closer to the EU. Other than that, you still find his terrorism acts as a heroic thing, which is why you hid him in the first place. Hashim Thaci didn't target both men and boys because of their religion, try again. Also, he's prime minister, not the president.

UCBMP was a terrorist organization who did terrorist acts mostly on civilian targets. Armies fight other Armies, its a big difference. And it was on CIA list of terrorist organization as well as on UN list, not on Serbia list only.

Actually no, UCPMB targeted Serbian police and army. This was triggered after all the stuff Serbs were doing to ethnic Albanians in Kosovo before UCK or UCPMB ever even formed. Yes, that's why our leaders ran away from the Hague in order not to face war crime charges[sarcasm].

Gazimestan is a religion monument that's old since the Kosovo battle of 1389. This is a monument of a terrorist organisation. You can't compare those two things, besides when Gaizmestan was build,

Other monuments that I stated still stay in question.

there was no Albanians on Kosovo.

LoL.

2 Mosques were attacked in the entire territory of Serbia, after the massacres that happen to Kosovo Serbs in 2004.They were rebuild the same way. They're still there, open and working. That's not the case with over 2000 Churches/Monasteries who're protected by UNESCO cause its world's heritage. Not only that no one is rebuilding them, they're turned into public toilets, stable for cows/horses, and every attempt from individuals or Church, to ask permission to rebuild them is denied.

False. I'll make my statement specific about Nis. Out of the 24 Mosques that were in Nis, there's one left, and like I already stated, it's ready to fall down to dust. And if I'm informed right, I don't believe that many mosques existing on today's date in that area. It's an eye for an eye, you don't get what you want when doing someone else any better.

I dont see what's your point. When ever you wanna build something, you need construction permission, building permission, aka following the law procedure for it. None of it was done, and it was a 'wild built' called officially in the law.
Many peoples houses and such got removed cause of it, its the law you gotta follow it.

Yes, these laws were followed with your monuments? It was added in front of the town hall, in which the Albanian leaders added it there, not just a group of Albanians who want to show their nationalistic side.

I do not care if you call yourself Albanians, Serbians or Clownians. You all have been living there for the last 1000 years or so. And I am pretty sure that there is not a single family that does not have a member on the 'other side' somewhere. Wish to fight over who has the better imaginary friend? Stop calling it ethnic fights and tell that you want your religion to rule.

Russia has 136 ethnic groups and all religions of the world (though some are forbidden). While we often know ehtnic background from the name, we do not roll in the streets trying to separate all in to their own mountain.

Europe is doing its best to unite in order to stop the pointless fighting over little pieces of land, and you do the opposite. Time to reach the 21st century.

We are all aware that there is no such thing as pure blood, but we still represent our nationality and our people, if we don't that, anyone can step on us, and I'm not just speaking for Albanians here. Actually religion has nothing to do with it, especially considering Albanians are not only Muslims...

Europe is doing its best to unite in order to stop the pointless fighting over little pieces of land, and you do the opposite. Time to reach the 21st century.

Past and following events are the reason. Things won't change, it's bad blood that's been going on for longer than you think.

[Gandalf]

Sorry to say, but that is tribal mentality. Believing you must rule others in order to have influence is forgetting that you will get what you gave.
Look at Israelian-Palestine and you know that you are the same.
Unable to think or understand that only by working togehter you will advance.

[Cofiliano]

I do not care if you call yourself Albanians, Serbians or Clownians. You all have been living there for the last 1000 years or so.

Nope.

And I am pretty sure that there is not a single family that does not have a member on the 'other side' somewhere. Wish to fight over who has the better imaginary friend? Stop calling it ethnic fights and tell that you want your religion to rule.

Elaborate.

Russia has 136 ethnic groups and all religions of the world (though some are forbidden). While we often know ehtnic background from the name, we do not roll in the streets trying to separate all in to their own mountain.

Chechenia. Almost the same story.

Europe is doing its best to unite in order to stop the pointless fighting over little pieces of land, and you do the opposite. Time to reach the 21st century.

We've been uniting when Europe was separating. But it wasn't someone interest to have a strong country like Yugoslavia was.

And don't get me wrong, my intention in correcting you isn't based in my believing in opposite of what you're talking about. Mine and Antonio's friendship, and the fact I trust him more then I trust myself sometimes, proves that. And knowing him, he has the same opinion.

So both of us are and many more people in our lives, are a live proof that we're all thinking the way you described.

Yes and you only hid him for what, 16 years? And the only reason you delivered him because you were informed that if he was caught, it would get Serbia closer to the EU. Other than that, you still find his terrorism acts as a heroic thing, which is why you hid him in the first place. Hashim Thaci didn't target both men and boys because of their religion, try again. Also, he's prime minister, not the president.

He was hiding since the 'democratic' revolution in 2000. The Government of Serbia had a warrant on him since then. And again,  Serbian Parlament has condemned his acts as war crimes, and not only that one, yet all that happen in Ex-Yugoslavia.

Yes Hashim 'Snake' Thaci targeted organ translations from the kidnapped Serbs, and earned a lot of money in the most grossed way possible. Don't give lectures to someone if you're even worst then him. In Srebrenica all the victims were shot, not slaughtered organ per organ.

Actually no, UCPMB targeted Serbian police and army. This was triggered after all the stuff Serbs were doing to ethnic Albanians in Kosovo before UCK or UCPMB ever even formed. Yes, that's why our leaders ran away from the Hague in order not to face war crime charges

They entire UCPMB ran as soon as Crvene Beretke announced they're being deployed to that area. Your leaders on Kosovo are the  biggest Drug Lords in Europe, we all know that, and lets not be hypocrite about it.

Other monuments that I stated still stay in question.

Like?

LoL.

Go check it out yourself. Let me highlight that for you: "On Kosovo" as a region, not today's Kosovo with Metohija. Kosovo region is north from Prishtina, everything south and south-west is Metohija.

False. I'll make my statement specific about Nis. Out of the 24 Mosques that were in Nis, there's one left

Are you talking about the period of 200 years ago? Since there's one mosque in Nis last who got attacked, rebuild, and open. Those weren't Albanian Mosques anyway.

and like I already stated, it's ready to fall down to dust.

They were rebuild the same way. They're still there, open and working.

And if I'm informed right, I don't believe that many mosques existing on today's date in that area. It's an eye for an eye, you don't get what you want when doing someone else any better.

They never did. If it was eye for an eye, we would burn down everything until we reach Istanbul mate.

Yes, these laws were followed with your monuments?

In which case exactly? If they're not removed then probably yes. How can you not understand a simple  law fact, that you can't build something without pappers, contracts, permission to do it?

"Hey guys lets just get bricks and build a house" You can't do that just like that.

It was added in front of the town hall, in which the Albanian leaders added it there, not just a group of Albanians who want to show their nationalistic side.

It has no place to be infront of Town Hall which represents Republic of Serbia. Imagine Ratko Mladic's monument in front of Town Hall of Srebrenica. Or Al Quaida's monument in NY. You must be realistic about things, there's no country in the world that wouldn't do the same.

Post Merge: January 20, 2013, 07:20:29 pmAlso let me give you a personal heads up. Only reason why our pussy ass politicians had the cojones to remove it, is cause your Albanian Leaders received money and benefits to 'swallow' that.

[Gandalf]

Chechenia. Almost the same story.

We've been uniting when Europe was separating. But it wasn't someone interest to have a strong country like Yugoslavia was.

And don't get me wrong, my intention in correcting you isn't based in my believing in opposite of what you're talking about. Mine and Antonio's friendship, and the fact I trust him more then I trust myself sometimes, proves that. And knowing him, he has the same opinion.

So both of us are and many more people in our lives, are a live proof that we're all thinking the way you described.

Chechhnya is a Muslim problem. You want to call it the same?

The reason Yugoslavia collapsed was mainly because there was no longer a strong government that could unite the differences. The problem with autocratic leadership is that it removes others with capabilities, so if the leader falls away the country is left to the dogs.

The friendship you and Antonia have is proof that the differences are nothing that can not be settled.

[Cofiliano]

Chechhnya is a Muslim problem. You want to call it the same?

Kosovo is the holy land of Orthodox Christians, just like Meka and Medina is the holy land of Muslims, Jerusalem is the holy land of Jews, and Vatikan is the holy land of Catholics. Albanians are traditional deducted Muslims.
It does have a religion aspect as well.

The reason Yugoslavia collapsed was mainly because there was no longer a strong government that could unite the differences. The problem with autocratic leadership is that it removes others with capabilities, so if the leader falls away the country is left to the dogs.

And the reason that happen is:
Weight of Chains | NEW TRAILER


I recommend you watch it, its quite good
The Weight of Chains | Težina lanaca (2010)

[Gandalf]

Kosovo is the holy land of Orthodox Christians, just like Meka and Medina is the holy land of Muslims, Jerusalem is the holy land of Jews, and Vatikan is the holy land of Catholics. Albanians are traditional deducted Muslims.
It does have a religion aspect as well.

As said, stop calling it an ethnic conflict and show it for what it is. A war of religion.