What to do when RHL expires

[Kojak]

Kirgiz and anyone else who wants to use this thread to vent their spleen, an interesting idea has been proposed that may, if workable, prevent the need for additional rules.

If you want to contribute please think about the idea and how it could be improved or potential problems with it, or alternatively think about some other solutions.

If you want to argue with each other, do it in PM or elsewhere, but do not derail this thread further.

[Def Perry]

So to summarize;

Problem?
The problem here is people who want to be suspected all the time. They are constantly finding reasons to be suspected, such as staying with a suspected guy in the car while you are unsuspected. Now a (new?) rule says that you have to leave once you are unsuspected, as the police is not looking for you but for your friend.

Current situation?
The rule could be a solution to stop the endless cycle of suspection, honestly I really like the rule.  However, thisrule is really illogic. Why? Because, from my point of view, it is up to the 'unsuspected person' if he wants to help his 'suspected' friend or not. Let's say you and your friend steal a car in real life.(yeah, very unlikely for most of us) Your friend was caught on a tape, you weren't. Would you leave him alone or help him in preventing from getting arrested? Right, you would still be on his side no matter what happened.

Another solution:

As the constitution of Argonath states:
'' Act XII: Accessory after the fact: Anyone who helps a criminal after he committed an offence is considered as guilty of accessory after the fact.''
The person who aided in a crime, should be given the same punishment as the one committed. That way no one will have a longer RHL than the other. Currently it is not allowed for cops to suspect a person several times to gain stars. There is also no way to suspect people for more than 1 star, this should be possible.

And this one:

A good solution could be giving them other stuff to focus on and introducing higher penalties for dying as suspect and higher prices of weaponry instead of introducing a new set of confusing rules.

"The cops are on your trail, get to the Hideout (Red Checkpoint) in Bayside Marina to drop the heat!"

A lot of people seem to be agreeing with this solution, but hear me out for a second:
- Police is after a suspect for 10 minutes. Finally they get near him in Bayside, Marina. Cops shoot at him and the suspect bunnyhops in the red circle. Bam, lost suspection. Very illogic.

- The vision of Argonath RPG says that you should not restrict players from having fun. You should also explore the map of Argonath RPG. If you want to role play with the police at a scene(while wanted), but a script tells you to go to Marina, then the fun would be gone.

- Again, you have to go to Bayside, Marina. As that is the furthest point from the LSPD, where you killed 10 cops. Damn, I have had this point now already for 10 times, this gets bored. Why should I even go there? The suspect will never go to the point and just undermine the script.


Tony and others, I really respect that you are getting solutions but please accept some critique to your idea. It is only to improve it and mention the issues.

[TonySforza]

And this one:
A lot of people seem to be agreeing with this solution, but hear me out for a second:
- Police is after a suspect for 10 minutes. Finally they get near him in Bayside, Marina. Cops shoot at him and the suspect bunnyhops in the red circle. Bam, lost suspection. Very illogic.

So by repeating myself again I shall say that reaching the checkpoint with cops in the vicinity would not allow the suspect to evade, you'd only evade if two conditions were existing:

1) Being at the safe house
2) No cops are nearby

I hope this third time It's clear for everyone

But, by reading your situation I did come up with another downside, and thank you for that actually xD

If the cops would approach you close to the safehouse, the suspect wouldn't be able to evade, afterwards the cops would already know where the suspect would have to evade, having for sure some officers camping next to the checkpoint.

Solution?


a) Every 10 minutes (Or any specific time) the script would check if the criminal still didn't had reached the safehouse, if not, the safehouse would change to another location far away from their current location.

OR

b) The suspect reaches the checkpoint but cops are nearby:

"The cops found out your safehouse! Go to the next safehouse in (...)"

A new safehouse would be set.

- The vision of Argonath RPG says that you should not restrict players from having fun. You should also explore the map of Argonath RPG. If you want to role play with the police at a scene(while wanted), but a script tells you to go to Marina, then the fun would be gone.

The place to go would be only to evade, the suspect is free to stay wherever he wants to be if he wishes to RP with the police force

- Again, you have to go to Bayside, Marina. As that is the furthest point from the LSPD, where you killed 10 cops. Damn, I have had this point now already for 10 times, this gets bored. Why should I even go there? The suspect will never go to the point and just undermine the script.

If such, then he won't get unsuspected and will eventually die or get jailed, having the weapon loss, coroner fees or jail fine. But as I said again, SAMP works with coordinates to determine someone's location, more than just one safehouse can be scripted to be set for that particular coordinate or area surrounding the coordinate, the same safehouse would only be set 10 times if the scripts were poor in safehouse options.
If the suspect wishes to ignore the safehouse to merely cop bait, well, we have an administration team for that. 

Tony and others, I really respect that you are getting solutions but please accept some critique to your idea. It is only to improve it and mention the issues.

Don't worry mate, you just helped finding out another possible exploit, this is just a base, MY base, I'm sure Teddy has different ideas aswell, this idea shouldn't be taken as a final option but as a stable ground to work upon.

[Def Perry]

b) The suspect reaches the checkpoint but cops are nearby:
"The cops found out your safehouse! Go to the next safehouse in (...)"
A new safehouse would be set.

Good one.

""The place to go would be only to evade, the suspect is free to stay wherever he wants to be if he wishes to RP with the police force""

""If the suspect wishes to ignore the safehouse to merely cop bait, well, we have an administration team for that.  ""

This will be hard to determine.

Don't worry mate, you just helped finding out another possible exploit, this is just a base, MY base, I'm sure Teddy has different ideas aswell, this idea shouldn't be taken as a final option but as a stable ground to work upon.

No problem, glad I could help.

[TonySforza]

This will be hard to determine.

True, but a /rwt ID command could get the job easier.

"Run where to (rwt)", a possible command for admins to determine where the suspect should run away to, making it easier to see if they're actually heading towards the evade point or having the intention to cop bait.

[Stivi]

True, but a /rwt ID command could get the job easier.

"Run where to (rwt)", a possible command for admins to determine where the suspect should run away to, making it easier to see if they're actually heading towards the evade point or having the intention to cop bait.

Not only to admins, but to suspects too. Not cops as they will camp.

Also, when in group RWT(the script) will show a place for you, but same for the other one too. Recently, due to the major usage of heavy air, I've been fighting the cops indoors, and on /exit there is someone spraying or a hunter/hydra camping there. If inside, how would the suspects be able to evade to Disney/Bayside/Angel Pine ?


I was thinking of this other in-door RHL system. When inside a house/bizz, cops usually camp, regroup and storm inside. And due to pepper-sprayers  or hunter/hydra outside, /exit is not often a good solution...

What if, when in-doors you can start losing-heat. What would be a great place to hide yourself after committing a crime ? Out on the street or ind-doors. Of course, due to /area function which is very helpful, cops will start coming at you... This is increase the chance of getting caught, and if a cop comes inside, then, few minutes shall pass and you'll start losing heat again, unless there are cops inside. When in groups, you can split up and avoid being caught... You might risk yourself, but others may escape. Also, when you lose heat, why should you abandon the group ? I know it means the RP ended, but depends which RP did. In a bank robbery, I take the money with a sultan and 3 other robbers. I go inside a hideout, and stick with them, cops come, shoot-out begins, if cops don't negociate, then if I have the money, escape and go out, cops won't catch me as I got unsuspected ?, this makes no sense to me. Loyalty is what you need to be part of a group, and you work for it. You can't just blow it up 'cause you got unsuspected.

[TonySforza]

What if, when in-doors you can start losing-heat. What would be a great place to hide yourself after committing a crime ? Out on the street or ind-doors. Of course, due to /area function which is very helpful, cops will start coming at you... This is increase the chance of getting caught, and if a cop comes inside, then, few minutes shall pass and you'll start losing heat again, unless there are cops inside. When in groups, you can split up and avoid being caught... You might risk yourself, but others may escape. Also, when you lose heat, why should you abandon the group ? I know it means the RP ended, but depends which RP did. In a bank robbery, I take the money with a sultan and 3 other robbers. I go inside a hideout, and stick with them, cops come, shoot-out begins, if cops don't negociate, then if I have the money, escape and go out, cops won't catch me as I got unsuspected ?, this makes no sense to me. Loyalty is what you need to be part of a group, and you work for it. You can't just blow it up 'cause you got unsuspected.

This would only make players camp in their houses with 30 other friends aiming weapons at the door waiting to lose the wanted level, resulting in a ridiculous ammount of shootouts, which is what we are running away from with this topic.

[Gandalf]

Let's say you and your friend steal a car in real life.(yeah, very unlikely for most of us) Your friend was caught on a tape, you weren't. Would you leave him alone or help him in preventing from getting arrested? Right, you would still be on his side no matter what happened.

I guess you were never in such a situation. In real life most friendshops would suddenly be forgotten if that meant not getting arrested....

[Paco]

I guess you were never in such a situation. In real life most friendshops would suddenly be forgotten if that meant not getting arrested....

Def Perry might've formulated it a bit incorrectly. Let me try to explain:

If you and your friend are suspects. You're the driver and your friend was caught on tape, not you. Would you jump off the car ( ) or help him escape?

The answer would, obviously, be that the driver should drive to a safe place, where the criminal can take over the car and continue his adventure of escaping the police.

[Salmonella]

The answer is never obvious, because everyone has a different answer and way of handling such a situation ingame. That's why the complete freedom we used to have was so nice, because it would every now and then cause for the creative roleplaying that everybody always tries to demand.

[Teddy]

Exactly Sal, which is why this topic exists for the input of everyone to come together to find a reasonable solution that is balanced for everyone. Everyone has to keep in mind that the outcome won't always be exactly what you want but consider the option of taking some sacrifices from what you 'want' and putting at least some helpful ideas forward that can shape a better solution for everyone.

[diddeh]

The answer is never obvious, because everyone has a different answer and way of handling such a situation ingame. That's why the complete freedom we used to have was so nice, because it would every now and then cause for the creative roleplaying that everybody always tries to demand.

BAM!

[Def Perry]

The answer is never obvious, because everyone has a different answer and way of handling such a situation ingame. That's why the complete freedom we used to have was so nice, because it would every now and then cause for the creative roleplaying that everybody always tries to demand.

Exactly.
However, the problem of copbaiting should be handled, maybe a money reset in RS5 would do enough for a while.

[Salmonella]

Exactly.
However, the problem of copbaiting should be handled, maybe a money reset in RS5 would do enough for a while.

The solution to that is proper administration. Before you all jump on me, I'm not saying that's not happening right now, I'm just saying that the administration can get rid of copbaiting if it is reported.

[Gandalf]

The answer is never obvious, because everyone has a different answer and way of handling such a situation ingame. That's why the complete freedom we used to have was so nice, because it would every now and then cause for the creative roleplaying that everybody always tries to demand.

The 'used to have' is still present. and enforcing one rule is not going to change that. The reason we become stricter on enforcement lies in the current day behaviour on server, not in memories of long ago.
If Panda and Maxy display the behaviour for which they were often punished in the past today, they might win a RP award...