Regarding the "Gandalfs orders"..

[Huntsman]

I'd like to bring something to the attention of Argonath Community leaders and administrators. We, as regular players, do not have access to administrator boards or certain sources of information, yet I see some administrators warning people for something that has been ordered by Gandalf, yet isnt listed in the rules. My friend recently got warned for using ELM while off cop duty, but it was never fobidden before and now out of nowhere it is, the admin justifies that it's a Gandalfs order, but how in the hell us, ordinary players, are supposed to be aware of such Gandalfs orders when it's not listen in the rules? Shouldn't the admins first make players aware and only then issue disciplinary actions? There were also pretty much the same situation regarding barricade suspect dm fests, nobody ever bothered about random citizens aiming mafia's in building take overs, but recently admins were on a ban spree on such players, saying that it is Gandalfs order. I support such a rule finally coming into affect, but i understand the players that got banned as well - THEY WERE NOT MADE AWARE OF IT.

[Cyril]

Search function to find all the answer you need.

Barricaded situation and late joining was made clear by Gandalf in 2010.. http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=18054.msg781801#msg781801

Yes, the /rules is not really up-to-date and I guess we are planning to update it for RS5 with all situation/rules that were explained accross the forum. However you can find all the answers by searching Gandalf posts about specific topics. That's what we do.

[Stivi]

I remember my cursed hotel in Verdant Bluffs when CBFasi banned like 3 or 4 people :o
Been in Argonath for longer than a year, I didn't knew that wasn't allowed.

[PSVITA]

I will never understand why people constantly say that one must use the search funtion. Why cannot it just be implemented in /rules or something. Why do players constantly have to spend so much time in the forums to make sure that they do not miss anything? If a new player joins, and reads the rules, he/she will do things that are not stated in /rules and suddenly they get warned about it.

[PulseEffect]

Pretty simple if a manager or CL made a rules topic in the SA:MP General Board or better yet, get Argonath Wiki back online.

[Kojak]

There is a set of rules that includes things like "No Deathmatching", "No Cheating" etc; these are our black and white rules which are always enforced. These are usually fairly obvious and most servers will have a similar set of rules.

Then there is guidance that has been offered to both admins and players over the years, this is the information that is typically found in the Developer's Answers thread and includes things like Argonath's view on civilians entering a building after a police barricade has been established, or police committing crimes while on duty.

The problem with the guidance is it is rarely black and white, I'll give you an example. A police officer grows drugs on duty, is this allowed or not? The very simple answer is yes; but the not so simple answer is yes, but he should not use his position as police officer to give him an advantage in the drug trade such as suspecting the competition or using duty weapons. The even less simple answer is, well actually he can use his advantage as a cop and he can use his duty weapons, but only if he is properly role-playing a corrupt cop. Trying to tie all that up in a neat rule is not possible, so instead we offer guidance to admins about how they should approach a situation like that and the desirable way of dealing with it.

What admins should not do in situations like this is say, "Gandalf said you can't do that so you're banned". Admins are expected to think about a situation and react to it based on it's merits, not what someone wrote in a forum post four years ago. Admins can and should take the guidance and then adapt it to the situation they are witnessing, then make a decision. Admins have very broad discretionary powers and that is deliberate, we want them thinking and using their heads.

The Developer's Answers thread is long, as of the time of writing it is 96 pages long, and of course we do not expect you to trawl through that and then try to remember everything that was written. Instead what should be happening is when there is a situation that is not clear cut, admins should be talking to the players and explaining and passing on the guidance they have been given by the owners and developers, likewise players should accept this guidance and adopt it into their role-play; essentially what I am saying is that admins and players should be working together.

I did say some time back that I would collate all the information from the Developer's Answers thread and publish it, I have written this document now and at the moment it exists in the admin board so staff have a chance to digest it. I will make this document available to the community soon and hopefully that will help shed light on some of the grayer areas.

[Def Perry]

A while ago I started doing the same thing and gathered all these unwritten rules, or sub-rules.

I haven't spent a lot of time on it back then, although it may be useful regarding some daily situations. These rules were confirmed by Trane Kiedis back then.

* Can I make an advertisement regarding illegal stuff?

- Yes you can make an advertisement if it gives the police a probably cause to investigate.
- No you can't make an advertisement regarding doing something illegal if it is too obvious.


* When can we drive-by at the police if we are aiding a suspect in a vehicle?

- When you can drive-by at the police:

1. )  If you are suspected.
2. )  If you are involved in the role-play.  (Either from the beginning, or you get involved in the role-play)

- When you can not drive-by the police:

1. )  If you are not wanted and not involved in the role-play.

* Is it punishable to use the terms: Out of  Character / In Character?

-  It is against the vision of Argonath RPG, however it is not punishable to use it. In Argonath we rely on the fact that the person you role-play with knows when you are role-playing or not.

I hope I helped you out with some rules as I said, it was a while ago and I haven't spent much time on it.

[Marcel]

Hey Def, would it be a good idea to list these on the Wiki, like a knowledge bank? People who wish to gain more insight in the rules and inner workings of the RPG server can then read that and learn.

[Nathan]

A knowledge base will be good.

[Def Perry]

Hey Def, would it be a good idea to list these on the Wiki, like a knowledge bank? People who wish to gain more insight in the rules and inner workings of the RPG server can then read that and learn.

I do not have access to the wikipedia page, still feel free to do so. Kojak mentioned that he is soon publishing a more detailed version of the rules, so I advise to wait for that first.

[Leon.]

There are lots of "grey rules," and it can (and HAS) get pretty ridiculous sometimes. Spending time on the server accidentally breaking the "grey rules" and learning the hard way what those rules are over time is tedious and frustrating. Some people justify the "grey rules" by saying they are common sense. What they think is their 'common sense' is their experience on the server, not common sense. That's like an American telling an immigrant that the process for registering as a voter should be common sense.

[Whiteman]

My concern is, why is the modification of our own topics in the SAMP clans and groups restricted..?

[Nathan]

My concern is, why is the modification of our own topics in the SAMP clans and groups restricted..?

Because of people like me.

[SugarD]

My friend recently got warned for using ELM while off cop duty, but it was never fobidden before and now out of nowhere it is, the admin justifies that it's a Gandalfs order, but how in the hell us, ordinary players, are supposed to be aware of such Gandalfs orders when it's not listen in the rules?

Any mod that can be noticed by other players or admins is in princople forbidden.
The only exception is ELM, as long as it is used for emegency services only and installed without any additional features.

SA:MP General -> SA:MP Ideas.

I did say some time back that I would collate all the information from the Developer's Answers thread and publish it, I have written this document now and at the moment it exists in the admin board so staff have a chance to digest it. I will make this document available to the community soon and hopefully that will help shed light on some of the grayer areas.

I would love to see such published alongside the rules so players have easy access to them. The ones that affect the entire community overall should also be published alongside the community rules so there are no excuses that it was written only for one server.

As for the document overall, very nice work Kojak. I haven't seen it yet, but I am glad someone has pulled together all the information in a neat, easy-to-read way. People have been taking advantage of the unwritten rule situations on both sides for far too long, so thanks to your information, they will no longer have any excuses.

My concern is, why is the modification of our own topics in the SAMP clans and groups restricted..?

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=93905.msg1497022#msg1497022

It's not just SA:MP ones. The board you are referring to affects the entire community.

[Mr. Goobii]

Spoiler for Hiden:

Gandalf has no orders, sir