Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: jovanca on November 15, 2014, 02:40:54 pm
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Well when double standards were mentioned on another topic, staff didn't seem to know what we were talking about and topic got closed, so i wanted to continue discussion in order to find solutions to this problem. I got a lot of examples of this but i'll rather not post them because certain people might get offended.
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Hopefully we will find a solution
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Well when double standards were mentioned on another topic, staff didn't seem to know what we were talking about and topic got closed, so i wanted to continue discussion in order to find solutions to this problem. I got a lot of examples of this but i'll rather not post them because certain people might get offended.
I don't even...
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Whats the problem monte?
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On what double standards are you pointing on ? :rofl:
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The way admins punish.
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The double standarts is a relaly big issue in this community IMO, throughout my three years of service here I saw them everywhere, starting from ARPD ending with the Admin team.
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Topic unlocked, players have the right to show their concerns if they do it in a proper manner.
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It would be easier to discuss this if someone would kindly elaborate on what double standards are being enforced instead of parroting "there are double standards."
1. Who is creating/enforcing double standards?
2. What group is being treated more leniently and why?
3. What group is being treated more harshly and why?
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I'm talking about the staff having double standards when it comes to punishing (does not include every staff member, ofcourse).
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It would be easier to discuss this if someone would kindly elaborate on what double standards are being enforced instead of parroting "there are double standards."
1. Who is creating/enforcing double standards?
2. What group is being treated more leniently and why?
3. What group is being treated more harshly and why?
1.
-Every admin has it's own rules/they understand and apply rules differently.
-They used or still are part of the group which they protect. Example: Cyril - Ballas; Devin, Abe, Charlie.. - Corleone; Rest - protecting cops
That's probably not itentional but its happening often because its natural and stronger than them.
2. Read answer 1.
3. Enemies of groups listed in answer 1.
Here's one fresh example:
Ballas come in front of Luciano HQ, Luciano get banned. Lucianos come to GS9, Luciano get banned.
I've experienced that many times because my group has a rule to never attack first and on the end its always our fault.
While i was playing this didnt change. I hope that next generation will feel some changes for the good of the server.
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I'm talking about the staff having double standards when it comes to punishing (does not include every staff member, ofcourse).
I wouldn't mind hearing you explain that in nuanced words.
I see it like this: Admins are actually ignoring many different rulebreaks. Some are rougher than others.
But I understand why two friends goofing around killing the other didn't end up with the same punishment as a family DMing another IC.
This shootout rule is put aside.
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I wouldn't mind hearing you explain that in nuanced words.
I see it like this: Admins are actually ignoring many different rulebreaks. Some are rougher than others.
But I understand why two friends goofing around killing the other didn't end up with the same punishment as a family DMing another IC.
This shootout rule is put aside.
It has nothing to do with ur example.
Here's one example for you.
Abe calls Jovanca a f**king twat and asshole then he bans him.
Jovanca is banned and Abe is still an admin because it was perfectly fine to do what he did.
And regarding your group go on that families and gangs at war topic there you have it better explained.
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i've had different experiences, not same as those acika mentioned, but still the double standards were obviously present. if some1 wants to hear, i can pm some of my examples, but i wont post them here because some people might get offended.
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i've had different experiences, not same as those acika mentioned, but still the double standards were obviously present. if some1 wants to hear, i can pm some of my examples, but i wont post them here because some people might get offended.
Why ? Topic is unlocked to point on those doing wrong for the good of the server.
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Do you seriously think that this is going to change anything???
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The double standarts is a relaly big issue in this community IMO, throughout my three years of service here I saw them everywhere, starting from ARPD ending with the Admin team.
My thoughts exactly...
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we can atleast try
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Conspiracy theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory)...
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Rest assured you will get the change you want.
All you have to do is go make your own community and you'll be free =D
Until then suffer!
Bwahahahahahahaha
No... but srsly
this thread will not achieve anything.
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Rest assured you will get the change you want.
All you have to do is go make your own community and you'll be free =D
Until then suffer!
Bwahahahahahahaha
No... but srsly
this thread will not achieve anything.
Of course it wont, but it cant get worse than this :)
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Good to see a thread where this issue can be discussed in a civil manner. I hope that something good will come out.
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Saying admins suck!!1! will never solve anything. Sure, this community has its dark areas, like any community. Calm down and come with something concrete if you really want a change.
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I don't think a single thread is going to change what has been true for over half a decade here and for much longer on any other gaming server, chat room, workplace, school, etc (insert any moderated/regulated environment here).
It's just human nature to support those you're closer to. It's the reason having a reasonable number of criminal admins alongside the many cop admins back in the day was a good idea, because they balance each other and discuss issues more evenly (e.g. in admin chat) before committing to a course of action.
Without that, you have people making shitty judgement calls because nobody is there to tell them that they're wrong. This is true for any given group - criminals, cops, Corleones, Ballas, ARPD groups, you name it. There's a reason that groups with no admins in their leadership were generally weak and ineffective - they got screwed constantly with nobody to defend them or explain their actions.
Balance is what you need. However, to achieve that balance you must acknowledge the existence of bias to start with.
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It always seems to be the banned players that state administration are bias and corrupt.
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Rest assured you will get the change you want.
All you have to do is go make your own community and you'll be free =D
Until then suffer!
Bwahahahahahahaha
No... but srsly
this thread will not achieve anything.
neither will negative comments
Saying admins suck!!1! will never solve anything. Sure, this community has its dark areas, like any community. Calm down and come with something concrete if you really want a change.
if that was pointed at me - i never said that any of admins suck.
I don't think a single thread is going to change what has been true for over half a decade here and for much longer on any other gaming server, chat room, workplace, school, etc (insert any moderated/regulated environment here).
It's just human nature to support those you're closer to. It's the reason having a reasonable number of criminal admins alongside the many cop admins back in the day was a good idea, because they balance each other and discuss issues more evenly (e.g. in admin chat) before committing to a course of action.
Without that, you have people making shitty judgement calls because nobody is there to tell them that they're wrong. This is true for any given group - criminals, cops, Corleones, Ballas, ARPD groups, you name it. There's a reason that groups with no admins in leadership were generally weak and ineffective - they got screwed constantly with nobody to defend them or explain their actions.
Balance is what you need. However, to achieve that balance you must acknowledge the existence of bias to start with.
Achieve that and you're on your way to success.
there has to be a line which must not be crossed, i dont everything can be perfect here but things can get better and its up to us to make them better or worse. if admins can't separate their duty from their personal wishes they should either step back and let others handle or be objective and do what has to be done.
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It always seems to be the banned players that state administration are bias and corrupt.
I'm not banned, and I've never been.
Admins are biased
Something else I'd like to note out, ever heard about chain reactions? When a single action leads to a set of reactions which could also form a line? Well let me explain this. Administrator X warns/says to player Y that he did something which he clearly didn't. Y gets upset coz he didn't do anything so starts behaving in an offensive way. X further punishes Y because of his reaction to his wrong action...
Think about that before you issue a punishment because of a reaction...
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It always seems to be the banned players that state administration are bias and corrupt.
take a look at my in-game stated ban reason, and look into my ban issued by megamidget few months ago, the irony
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I once got told not to talk 00C in /em because the admin "doesn't like it".
I once got warned for calling cops "pigs" in /l because it was "flaming groups".
I once got temp banned for "trolling" for /ad news reporting about a very senior member car killing citizens with a tank.
Double standards and made up rules are common within the administration, these examples I stated all happend in a single month.
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First /em is not OOC chat.
Second Calling cops "pigs" is an insult so if you were warned for that, good.
Should read the rules.
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Admins are biased
Players are biased in that sense then.
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Second Calling cops "pigs" is an insult so if you were warned for that, good.
If this is supposed to be a roleplaying game then we can't start shitting out rainbows and unicorns on every street corner. If the word "pigs" (an insult that is 10000% less harmful than calling someone a "f**k-headed shit nigga on ice") is used in a roleplay context by criminals in reference to police, how is that supposed to be a personal insult?
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I like it how HQ is trying to hide the real picture of double standards by posting random posts which are not related to the theme instead of constructive feedback to players.
That's maybe the reason why nothing changes. They are the ones who can make them yet they seem not to care or they just simply want to ignore them.
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Players are biased in that sense then.
guess who has more power to abuse
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It always seems to be the banned players that state administration are bias and corrupt.
Because the ones that are not don't want to end up being banned.
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Second Calling cops "pigs" is an insult
Sorry but what the actual f**k are you talking about?
If its used in a roleplaying context then admins have no right to punish as it isn't their matter.
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Everyone is by nature biased. It's chemistry. It's psychology.
I'm taking a newer initiative with DayZ to include full transparency and this transparency will eventually extend to TeamSpeak. If you ask me, admins should be held to a higher standard and face more immediate and harsh punishments when infringements are made.
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It always seems to be the banned players that state administration are bias and corrupt.
Has it occured to you that some of these bans might have been issued under very questionable circumstances? To me, it shows a great attitude that even these players still want to help the community by bringing up this topic in a constructive way.
But as always, this message will be met with condescending responses from staff. Mark my words.
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What is the point of this topic?
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Everyone is by nature biased. It's chemistry. It's psychology.
I'm taking a newer initiative with DayZ to include full transparency and this transparency will eventually extend to TeamSpeak. If you ask me, admins should be held to a higher standard and face more immediate and harsh punishments when infringements are made.
exactly, everyone is biased by nature, but admin team should be made of those players who can separate their personal stuff from their duties, and who will know the difference between their feelings and actual problem.
i dont think that admins should have more harsh punishments, in fact, i think they should spend more time trying to solve the actual problems than just using a command to punish a player.
What is the point of this topic?
so i wanted to continue discussion in order to find solutions to this problem..
trying to improve something, what is the point of this question tho?
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What exactly are you wanting to solve/gain from this topic? What is the conclusion that you are wanting to see come to life?
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Second Calling cops "pigs" is an insult so if you were warned for that, good.
What the actual fuck? If an admin on my server punished someone for calling cops "pigs" in roleplay manner, the admin would be warned for being a retard.
That is definiatly not a rulebreak, only butthurt twats would punish for word "pigs" and the admin should definiatly not be an admin.
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exactly, everyone is biased by nature, but admin team should be made of those players who can separate their personal stuff from their duties, and who will know the difference between their feelings and actual problem.
i dont think that admins should have more harsh punishments, in fact, i think they should spend more time trying to solve the actual problems than just using a command to punish a player.
trying to improve something, what is the point of this question tho?
I hope you are aware, what you just said there is close to impossible to happen, unless you never play the game and you never interact with people, which will then beat the point of being an admin.
So pretty much unless you have absolutly no social life and you never step IG, just make calls from outside the game without even reading the forums, there is no way people can be unbias.
Even if you put people that speak about double standard up on the admin spot, they will still act bias. Each decision is based off your comperhanding of the situation, your logic and your feelings, therfore there is no way you can solve a situation without being bias.
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i think they should spend more time trying to solve the actual problems than just using a command to punish a player.
You haven't been an admin before have you. I left over this. Someone would report someone else, and you'd accept the report. Unless the reporter saw red text (punishment) on the screen they'd bitch at you and call you a terrible admin. On the other hand you do issue a punishment, and you have the reported bitching at you, calling you a terrible admin.
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What exactly are you wanting to solve/gain from this topic? What is the conclusion that you are wanting to see come to life?
I'll speak for myself now. What i'd like to see is:
- A revision of the rules to rule out any conflicting rules and carefully rephrase the words to make them easier to follow.
- Put all rules in one place (including rules for SAPD and FBI) so everyone knows those are the leading and most up-to-date rules.
- Transparent guidelines for staff so players can view it.
- Easier way of reporting any rulebreaks by staff. The current way (e-mail [email protected]) is just not transparent enough because many players have the idea that it is either not taken seriously, they don't get enough feedback or no feedback at all.
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First /em is not for those without brains: chat.
What?
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What exactly are you wanting to solve/gain from this topic? What is the conclusion that you are wanting to see come to life?
i'm waiting for you to actually do something instead of being sarcastic when answering to everything people post when they want to see improvement on the server.
I hope you are aware, what you just said there is close to impossible to happen, unless you never play the game and you never interact with people, which will then beat the point of being an admin.
So pretty much unless you have absolutly no social life and you never step IG, just make calls from outside the game without even reading the forums, there is no way people can be unbias.
Even if you put people that speak about double standard up on the admin spot, they will still act bias. Each decision is based off your comperhanding of the situation, your logic and your feelings, therfore there is no way you can solve a situation without being bias.
You haven't been an admin before have you. I left over this. Someone would report someone else, and you'd accept the report. Unless the reporter saw red text (punishment) on the screen they'd bad girl at you and call you a terrible admin. On the other hand you do issue a punishment, and you have the reported bad girling at you, calling you a terrible admin.
i do not expect every admin on the server to be perfect when making a desicion, but i see admins every day closing their eyes to people rule breaking, on the other side, iMarkz, in my personal opinion the best staff member on this server - no offense to the others, has never been biased, atleast not that i know.
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- A revision of the rules to rule out any conflicting rules and carefully rephrase the words to make them easier to follow.
So a bible worth of rules, how's about we add common sense to the rules and that way we can pray that players will think before they act?
- Put all rules in one place (including rules for SAPD and FBI) so everyone knows those are the leading and most up-to-date rules.
That lies entirely on SAPD and FBI whether they wish to have their rules posted in the public, many have the mindset that if you have the rules visible to those they do not apply to, other players will look at the rules to try cause arguments/justify why a player can't do something.
- Transparent guidelines for staff so players can view it.
Staff are not working off of some sort of "Book" but their own knowledge and understanding of the rules. Simple examples of problems and solutions to them are provided to the staff.
However their manner of dealing with rulebreaking is up to them.
- Easier way of reporting any rulebreaks by staff. The current way (e-mail [email protected]) is just not transparent enough because many players have the idea that it is either not taken seriously, they don't get enough feedback or no feedback at all.
We have been discussing and planning another method of filing reports instead of the [email protected] email address. One that will not require any emails being sent.
i'm waiting for you to actually do something instead of being sarcastic when answering to everything people post when they want to see improvement on the server.
So I ask what you want and you think I am being sarcastic, I see no reason to try and answer you with any details then.
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i do not expect every admin on the server to be perfect when making a desicion, but i see admins every day closing their eyes to people rule breaking, on the other side, iMarkz, in my personal opinion the best staff member on this server - no offense to the others, has never been biased, atleast not that i know.
Think about it from an admin perspective. What's the point? You punish people, they do it again, they get banned. They get unbanned with little to no effort. Everyone knows exactly what to say to get unbanned now. There is no such thing as a perm ban. It really is discouraging as an admin to constantly deal with the same people over and over again breaking the same rules they've been banned for over and over.
You are being biased right now. Blame the admins only. The problem is two sided.
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So a bible worth of rules, how's about we add common sense to the rules and that way we can pray that players will think before they act?
"How about we add some transparent guidelines to the forum, that way we can pray that admins will think before they act."
If I said that to an admin right now I'd be muted, kicked or tempbanned, so how about that for a double standard.
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If this is supposed to be a roleplaying game then we can't start shitting out rainbows and unicorns on every street corner. If the word "pigs" (an insult that is 10000% less harmful than calling someone a "f**k-headed shit nigga on ice") is used in a roleplay context by criminals in reference to police, how is that supposed to be a personal insult?
If the word "pig" is used in a role play then it might be fine, but if the cop felt offended by that, admins has every right to tell you or anyone else to stop calling cops 'pigs"
a "f**k-headed shit nigga on ice")
You feel insulted by that????
/report!!!!
What the actual f**k? If an admin on my server punished someone for calling cops "pigs" in roleplay manner, the admin would be warned for being a retard.
That is definiatly not a rulebreak, only butthurt twats would punish for word "pigs" and the admin should definiatly not be an admin.
The thing is most people do it without any damn Role play at all, you have no idea how many times I've see nit happen.
And as I said, if it's in a RP manner then it's fine, but if people feel offended, then we will tell you not to call them that.
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They get unbanned with little to no effort. Everyone knows exactly what to say to get unbanned now. There is no such thing as a perm ban.
It's not so simple to get unbanned if you have been banned previously already.
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Think about it from an admin perspective. What's the point? You punish people, they do it again, they get banned. They get unbanned with little to no effort. Everyone knows exactly what to say to get unbanned now. There is no such thing as a perm ban. It really is discouraging as an admin to constantly deal with the same people over and over again breaking the same rules they've been banned for over and over.
You are being biased right now. Blame the admins only. The problem is two sided.
you probably dont know some things i know, and i obviously do not know some things you do, and no i'm not being biased, every member of community has to do something to get improvement, but right now i'm talking about admins not giving the same treatemant to everyone.
So a bible worth of rules, how's about we add common sense to the rules and that way we can pray that players will think before they act?
That lies entirely on SAPD and FBI whether they wish to have their rules posted in the public, many have the mindset that if you have the rules visible to those they do not apply to, other players will look at the rules to try cause arguments/justify why a player can't do something.
Staff are not working off of some sort of "Book" but their own knowledge and understanding of the rules. Simple examples of problems and solutions to them are provided to the staff.
However their manner of dealing with rulebreaking is up to them.
We have been discussing and planning another method of filing reports instead of the [email protected] email address. One that will not require any emails being sent.
So I ask what you want and you think I am being sarcastic, I see no reason to try and answer you with any details then.
ye devin, what i want is to see everyone on the server being even, rulebreak is a rulebreak, performed by any player on the server it's still a rulebreak
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It's not so simple to get unbanned if you have been banned previously already.
ive been banned few times too many, i guess. but right now i really don't understand why i was banned at first, altho i do understand why i'm still banned, but what i do not understand, even tho i dont want Abe to get punished, is him not getting punished. few months ago i said to my friend that an admin is a fool, and got banned for that, now an when i got offended called a fucking asshole and a fucking twat, the one who called me that didn't get punished and, i can just assume, cos he's an admin. this is a great example of double standards on argonath
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First /em is not for those without brains: chat.
Second Calling cops "pigs" is an insult so if you were warned for that, good.
Should read the rules.
You tell someone "dont impersionate god!" when he said "im god" instead of "im good".
"pigs" is a slang. Slang can be used in RP, duh. You should read rules.
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Staff are not working off of some sort of "Book" but their own knowledge and understanding of the rules. Simple examples of problems and solutions to them are provided to the staff.
However their manner of dealing with rulebreaking is up to them.
Here, you said it yourself. That's the whole problem. Every admin understands existing rules differently and that's how they apply them. On top of that you have bunch of made up rules which are applied too.
Some admins can't use common sense and that's where it all begins.
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Here, you said it yourself. That's the whole problem. Every admin understands existing rules differently and that's how they apply them. On top of that you have bunch of made up rules which are applied too.
Some admins can't use common sense and that's where it all begins.
That's not the problem as it's intended to work like that. Every admin is selected for his qualities. If we wanted them to follow a rulebook without thinking or using their experience, we would recruit anyone.
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If you have a problem with my staff, send me a Forum PM or an email to [email protected].
This topic just looks to me like an argument about my staff.