Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Devin on May 19, 2016, 11:21:15 pm
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I now see why previous HQ teams and members were against allowing any sort of terrorist like group on the server, one being people can't comprehend a group like that in-game and another being people getting overly sensitive about the subject on a game.
Either way, you can't fault FLA members and leaders for trying something new instead of just another "mafia" running around on NRGs and Infernus' getting suspected and evading all day long. If you want to argue with my statement, at least think before you write, that is all I ask. At least people are trying something new and believe it or not, between the fighting they actually do roleplay. I am also sure there will be people running around complaining "Devin supports FLA even when they dm" because it's somehow incomprehensible that a server leader/hq member supports criminals over others for once. It's insanity right?
There are two sides to every story, FLA are recognized as a criminal/terrorist sort of group based on their actions which as you would expect brings in police attention as you can see in-game and that is expected. Cops would generally try stop any and all forms of terrorist/criminal activity inside the server but it gets to a point where this is overboard. An FLA member holds a gun and suddenly there's a brigade of officers arming up for a war or something.
Sure FLA members are law breaking "criminals" of sorts and they have all right to roleplay their characters but you also need to realize as you roleplay being a cop going on duty and protecting the city, they roleplay their character. Complaints about them playing their characters is essentially like saying "They're roleplaying a drug dealer, that's illegal its provoking cops".
Criminal group members run around killing people, doing drug deals but the only subject nowadays is shootouts with FLA and pissing contests on mainchat over who won and who lost.
I really do feel people have forgotten the reason why they come in-game. Sure you can go and kill a criminal good on you, but what roleplay was there behind that? Yes it is a job of the police to stop criminals but come on. Let people roleplay. I have looked at it from both sides including logs and each time these "wars" happen I see little to no actual roleplay between either party it's just a mess of people getting shot or blown up.
It's simple, don't get in someones face if you don't want confrontation. Let them roleplay their characters and they can let you roleplay yours. If there has to be an interaction between the two then at least don't look at it as a free chance for a shootout to "own" others.
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Its about time Gandalf declares FC an independant state.
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Don't get me wrong, by no means do I deem all of FLA members actions as acceptable nor do I condone all of it. The best thing for the group would be to become more subdued and less public and deliberate about their actions such as holding weapons in busy areas, blocking main roads like the Rodeo-Flint bridge which just asks for police attention. But for more roleplay oriented action, instead of drawing the cops in with certain actions roleplay as you feel necessary for your group but don't deliberately do things just to get into a war.
The same can be said for the other side, give them some space to roleplay. There's no need to run in with a riot squad each time they gather together to do something.
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I'll admit myself that I do alot of moaning mainly about law enforcement/what law enforcement do and I need to cut it out as does everyone else as it is ruining what is meant to be a fun environment for everyone to play in, the constant bitching and as you said, pissing contest, is out of control, for that I apologise and will stop doing it myself.
There is also too much shooting and not enough RP from both sides, I miss the times a couple of months back when we as FLA would actually RP some road blocks, patrols, enforcing our laws in Flint Country, etc, we don't really do any of that lately because we are too distracted with shooting at law enforcement, so that is something big we need to fix, sure there's going to be shootouts, but we should atleast try to RP inbetween.
I wish we had some certified RP way to obtain the independence we desire, but so far all we are being told is "you already have it" (yeah right), FLA isn't going to close and it isn't going to stop with it's rebellion activities, so I guess this will just go on for eternity, hopefully with less shooting.
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It's sad to see that these situations often evolve into violence like FLA vs ARPD. Like today at Luciano HQ when you were just looking for someone who had murdered a farmer or something and you walked around 12 guys armed with rifles in the street of LS. When ARPD arrived with a helicopter above, you decided to shoot it down. This is unncessary. I do not mean to point fingers as we initially understand that you do not come to LS for warm hugs, but you're very slippery on the finger. And if you want to drop a helicopter out of the air, then that is all good, but do it with proper motive and not just because you're "annoyed" with it.
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The best thing for the group would be to become more subdued and less public and deliberate about their actions such as holding weapons in busy areas, blocking main roads like the Rodeo-Flint bridge which just asks for police attention.
The same can be said for the other side, give them some space to roleplay. There's no need to run in with a riot squad each time they gather together to do something.
This policy has already been implemented. No officer was allowed to go into FC hunting or Angel Pine. They were told to keep out and everyone did, nothing happen. They were given their space. Even when they set road block in FC, no one went in with army/rambo but the road to FC was blocked for as long as it lasted.
The problem came when a whole army of them came into heart of Los Santos city, where pretty much all ARPD+FBI is and every single person start walking around with guns out. The officers didn't even open fire but merely used words and yet they shot down a police chopper. Now I can only imagine even if a bullet was shot from one of the officers, it would've just been a big DM fest inside the center of the city. This is where the problem began.
You wanna RP a country? Fine. You do that in your space. If you had a personal vendetta with Lucianos, you take them out behind the scene not come as an army which looks like an invasion from FLA into Santos.
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It's sad to see that these situations often evolve into violence like FLA vs ARPD. Like today at Luciano HQ when you were just looking for someone who had murdered a farmer or something and you walked around 12 guys armed with rifles in the street of LS. When ARPD arrived with a helicopter above, you decided to shoot it down. This is unncessary. I do not mean to point fingers as we initially understand that you do not come to LS for warm hugs, but you're very slippery on the finger. And if you want to drop a helicopter out of the air, then that is all good, but do it with proper motive and not just because you're "annoyed" with it.
The reason why the helicopter was shot down was that it didn't change it's course by slightest point after being asked to few times in a row, and I believe some of our soldiers were especially angry about it cause there was another officer who'd constantly fly next to us during our previous roadblock checkpoint scenario a hour ago despite warnings, and they'd probably mix up the officers to be the same person.
As you could see we weren't looking for a big war in LS, else we'd stay there after shooting down the helicopter, but we decided to pack our shit and leave. LEO's coming after that however is perfectly acceptable since an officer was killed either way, the way I see it, but the heli should've left in the first place - a single pilot hovering above 10+ men armed with assault rifles, telling them to disperse? one would have to be a really mentally challenged person or a rambo to act like that
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It's sad to see that these situations often evolve into violence like FLA vs ARPD. Like today at Luciano HQ when you were just looking for someone who had murdered a farmer or something and you walked around 12 guys armed with rifles in the street of LS. When ARPD arrived with a helicopter above, you decided to shoot it down. This is unncessary. I do not mean to point fingers as we initially understand that you do not come to LS for warm hugs, but you're very slippery on the finger. And if you want to drop a helicopter out of the air, then that is all good, but do it with proper motive and not just because you're "annoyed" with it.
I wasnt online but if I'm not mistaken the "farmer" that was murderef was the spiritual leader of FLA, a pope of some sort or something, not into the total religion hokus pokus thing.
If I'm a redneck farmer who worships Sauron and aomeone murders a pope I'd go at them with assault rifles too.
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I can understand that it was provoking, we shouldn't act like we do in Flint, when we're in LS trying to deal with other things.
Yet i just want to say that we do RP without dragging the police into it, but ofcourse this doesnt show as much. We have almost daily transports with or without protection from Angel Pine/Ocean Docks and I try to put a lot of focus on the logistic parts of this too. So it's not just shooting even if it may look like that sometimes.
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The reason why the helicopter was shot down was that it didn't change it's course by slightest point after being asked to few times in a row, and I believe some of our soldiers were especially angry about it cause there was another officer who'd constantly fly next to us during our previous roadblock checkpoint scenario a hour ago despite warnings, and they'd probably mix up the officers to be the same person.
As you could see we weren't looking for a big war in LS, else we'd stay there after shooting down the helicopter, but we decided to pack our shit and leave. LEO's coming after that however is perfectly acceptable since an officer was killed either way, the way I see it, but the heli should've left in the first place - a single pilot hovering above 10+ men armed with assault rifles, telling them to disperse? one would have to be a really mentally challenged person or a rambo to act like that
You don't come into the busiest city on the server as terrorists and start to order law enforcement around. That is just asking for a response and DM fest. The rambo act was you coming into LS the way you did which resulted in the response you got.
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You don't come into the busiest city on the server as terrorists and start to order law enforcement around. That is just asking for a response and DM fest.
Hardly has to be, and did it end in a DM fest? No. The helicopter was being a pain and got shot down but Hubbe and the rest ordered everyone to not open fire on the other cops, so nobody did. You didn't open fire on us either and we parted ways there.
Why use a GOOD situation as an example of a bad one?
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Hardly has to be, and did it end in a DM fest? No. The helicopter was being a pain and got shot down but Hubbe and the rest ordered everyone to not open fire on the other cops, so nobody did. You didn't open fire on us either and we parted ways there.
Why use a GOOD situation as an example of a bad one?
The helicopter that got shot down as not a "good" example of how roleplay events between ARPD and FLA should occur.
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just a mess of people getting shot or blown up.
I swear to god I had the image of everyone's limbs flying around :lol:
I personally would like to say that I understand both sides' point of views respectively and I have come up with a solution which is a possible win-win or a halfwin-halfwin, depends on how you see it and depends on how both groups see it.
I have just spoken with Leon and we have just had an hour conversation which we're suppose to continue tomorrow, but I'd like your opinion on it, Devin, and also the server's and both sides that are usually involved. I've spoken about it with Leon before I even told FLA about it. Basically my idea is this: What if we give it some sort of a one-month trial independence and see how we move on from there? I am speaking about Angel Pine, giving Angel Pine independence. One of FLA's Leadership basically told me its nonsense because its just a small town, and even JUST Angel Pine is nearly impossible to give independence because I'm definite that the SAPD doesn't want to be limited on their jurisdiction. But for example, building up a company, you have to start small from somewhere and build your way to the top, and not just start balling from the beginning. If Angel Pine is given a one-month trial as independence, those who continuously ask for it will have that small chance to prove themselves.
IF they fail to do so, HQ will end the experiment/project, whatever you want to call it, and tell FLA to stop asking for independence because they've given them a chance, and they failed to prove themselves. If they succeeded, leave it for a longer period of time and see how it progresses, if it fucks up along the way, see what can be fixed. If it cannot, simply once again just abandon the project. Maybe if a lot of succession is done, it can later on go on to other parts of Flint.
On the other hand, might proposal might have some backlash due to Law Enforcements was jurisdiction everywhere, and they might claim what will happen if a criminal goes to your independent place with different laws? Considering the laws that were broken are on the other side, you will contact the appointed embassies of Angel Pine and find a solution, they might either give you the jurisdiction for a temporary time to capture the suspect, or they send their own forces. If they fail to do so, screw it, just leave it be and call it a day. OR maybe, set up a form of an agreement with some people and set up some of your actual people who would like to RP as cops in Angel Pine as I'm sure no one from FLA would like to be a cop. In order to ensure that the criminals do not enter their boarder, defend the boarder like you were doing at Flint's Bridge, and this goes for both groups.
As Leon has previously mentioned to me privately, why not just roleplay it? And we all know how that went for Argonath for these past years with the mentality of "RP IT", it held back Argonath a lot and a lot of great players were lost of it because some things need to be official, some things need to be visualized. If some of you continue to keep saying "just rp it", why don't you RP the /wear and other objects as well?
This is a sort of win-win situation because Angel Pine will have its own government, its own constitution, its own groups and so on and basically it they'll get their independence which they've been continuously asking for. On the other hand, it will stop SAPD from being forced to join in the shootouts, and will no longer have to be on the look out for FLA. My proposal will help both sides, a lot, and it should be a solution to fixing these constant arguments and mass shootouts that are continuously made. A lot of more possible roleplay will be able to be done due to forcing both sides interacting together in order to help each other and not be enemies.
I assure you that if this isn't given at least a try, come up with a better solution. If you are against with anything that I have mentioned, state it and maybe I can try and find a solution myself. If this doesn't go on, either more chaos will be created In-Game, more fighting, more arguments which will lead to people leaving or HQ to step in and demolish FLA, which will still then get everyone who supports FLA to riot and either end up leaving or cause more chaos with HQ. A solution has to be found, tomorrow if not today, but it has to be found ASAP.
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You don't come into the busiest city on the server as terrorists and start to order law enforcement around. That is just asking for a response and DM fest.
Of course it's just asking for trouble, but the pilot could've acted a bit more realistically. Either way today's shootout was completely justified so I don't understand anyone's problems with it, only thing that felt kinda off was certain people restocking 4+ armors in two minutes span. It's just a game, and a GTA game at that overall, so I don't see why whenever a shootout happens everyone feels as if the server is getting destroyed or something....
And yeah now that you say that I suppose going with a convoy of 6 cars inside LS just to chase down 2 mobsters (who abused /q to avoid roleplay, will be reported soon) was pretty stupid. We were just happy to have so much members online at the time.
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Hardly has to be, and did it end in a DM fest? No. The helicopter was being a pain and got shot down but Hubbe and the rest ordered everyone to not open fire on the other cops, so nobody did. You didn't open fire on us either and we parted ways there.
Why use a GOOD situation as an example of a bad one?
Don't make it seem as if what you did was perfectly acceptable. It was not. You killed an officer while INSIDE the most populated city with law enforcement and you treat it as if it was a joke?
What your saying sound something like this: the chopper was annoying us so we killed the cop in it but don't shoot as us so it won't cause DM fest.
As you must know very well killing a cop is pretty much the quickest way to trigger a high profile response form law enforcement.
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You don't come into the busiest city on the server as terrorists and start to order law enforcement around. That is just asking for a response and DM fest. The rambo act was you coming into LS the way you did which resulted in the response you got.
And ofcourse you can't seem to see the bigger picture cause clearly you see no fault in the actions of you and your peers.
All the FLA leaders have accepted the mistakes they made but you guys clearly have large egos which makes you just sit back and point fingures instead of claiming responsibility for your faults.
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you guys clearly have large egos which makes you just sit back and point fingures instead of claiming responsibility for your faults.
Where were our faults during that situation? I may not be able to answer for other officer's behavior, but I am quite certain I can answer for myself as I am 100% sure that I do not act without proper motive.
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And ofcourse you can't seem to see the bigger picture cause clearly you see no fault in the actions of you and your peers.
All the FLA leaders have accepted the mistakes they made but you guys clearly have large egos which makes you just sit back and point fingures instead of claiming responsibility for your faults.
I've accepted the faults and mistakes, moved on from them in the topic Leon made. Do don't make it seem as if this is an attack on FLA. I've already covered the changes we made in my previous post. I talking about the specific situation which occurred today.
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I don't see how this will change anything. Not to mention, if you want liberation or independence, this is NOT the way about it. It's a terrorist group which has been killing countless people. Also, nothing stops them from doing whatever they want in Angel Pine or rest of Flint already since police as said earlier are giving them the space to do as they wish. I don't understand how the "prove" point comes into this. Prove what? Anything they want to do they can already.
I do however have a suggestion, Angel Pine can be made a separate jurisdiction or be recognised as a city which can then have a elected Mayor, it is job of FLA to get a FLA elected mayor and then new policies, certain laws can be changed and such. Also any other changed they wish to make. This will then probably require a federal constitution which applies everywhere.
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I've accepted the faults and mistakes, moved on from them in the topic Leon made. Do don't make it seem as if this is an attack on FLA. I've already covered the changes we made in my previous post. I talking about the specific situation which occurred today.
The intent of this topic isn't to signle out single situations but it was made to address the entire subject on a whole. As for the specific situation I still don't see an issue here. You guys seem to think everything must be written out for you guys. Sometimes some logic must be applied.a single pilot hovering above 10+ men armed with assault rifles, telling them to disperse? one would have to be a really mentally challenged person or a rambo to act like that
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Don't make it seem as if what you did was perfectly acceptable. It was not. You killed an officer while INSIDE the most populated city with law enforcement and you treat it as if it was a joke?
What your saying sound something like this: the chopper was annoying us so we killed the cop in it but don't shoot as us so it won't cause DM fest.
As you must know very well killing a cop is pretty much the quickest way to trigger a high profile response form law enforcement.
This was one death, let's not think about that. We have done way worse things (LS Bank situation). We could come up with many examples from the PD side, for example equipping and healing in combat, getting suspected for robbery when we offered a man a ride and so on. Let's look forward instead.
I think Ramos idea was good, even though just about liberating Angel Pine, which ofcourse won't be enough for us. But it would leave the FLA a massive amounts of differents kind of RP that does not involve shootouts against the FBI. Even if those will happen too.
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The reason we shot down Taseen's PD helicopter at Luciano HQ - It's loud, it's annoying, it makes it hard to RP, especially since he was hovering right above our heads, the fucking dust cloud going everywhere, I did call 911 and say that we'd shoot it down if he didn't move, he didn't move, he kept hovering right above us, so we shot it down, we left before it could turn into a gigantic shootout with the rest of SAPD, but we got followed to Angel Pine by them regardless and a huge shootout ensued, sure it's understandable, we shot down a PD helicopter and were wanted suspects, just stating that so you know that we left Los Santos hoping that we wouldn't end up in a shootout with the entire PD, but we did.
I'm hoping we in FLA can get back to our old ways in the coming days, we'll try to organize some things which in reality wouldn't attract huge police attention.
I do however have a suggestion, Angel Pine can be made a separate jurisdiction or be recognised as a city which can then have a elected Mayor, it is job of FLA to get a FLA elected mayor and then new policies, certain laws can be changed and such. Also any other changed they wish to make. This will then probably require a federal constitution which applies everywhere.
That isn't exactly the independence we had in mind, but whenever you're ready to give us 1mil for the FBI financial check and a clean pass on the criminal record check...
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The intent of this topic isn't to signle out single situations but it was made to address the entire subject on a whole. As for the specific situation I still don't see an issue here. You guys seem to think everything must be written out for you guys. Sometimes some logic must be applied.
We had enough officers to engage, telling them to disperse was a non-lethal method of dealing with them. Stop making it seem as if nothing happen. Not to mention you weren't even there.
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We had enough officers to engage
Except for the fact that you didn't, that's why you went back to the PD and then cop after cop started logging in, you know, because alot of players only want to log in for a shootout...
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That isn't exactly the independence we had in mind, but whenever you're ready to give us 1mil for the FBI financial check and a clean pass on the criminal record check...
I believe my idea makes more sense and is actually feasible then a country.
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Except for the fact that you didn't, that's why you went back to the PD and then cop after cop started logging in, you know, because alot of players only want to log in for a shootout...
Which you had coming and asked for but I no longer see the benefit on continuing this discussion we should focus of the idea aspect.
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I do however have a suggestion, Angel Pine can be made a separate jurisdiction or be recognised as a city which can then have a elected Mayor, it is job of FLA to get a FLA elected mayor and then new policies, certain laws can be changed and such. Also any other changed they wish to make. This will then probably require a federal constitution which applies everywhere.
What you've suggested kind of needs to be added too, but instead an entire government for its own is what FLA is trying to seek. I assume what FLA also wants is to have its leaders in power, which is practically impossible if trying to elect a mayor as they'll never pass FBI's security check.
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I believe my idea makes more sense and is actually feasible then a country.
That is just such a minor change that I can't even... Ramo's idea about having only Angel Pine independent for a trial atleast brings us a little bit closer to our demands.
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What you've suggested kind of needs to be added too, but instead an entire government for its own is what FLA is trying to seek. I assume what FLA also wants is to have its leaders in power, which is practically impossible if trying to elect a mayor as they'll never pass FBI's security check.
Then you need to find someone who can pass the security check and hasn't been involved in terrorist activity who will be a FLA muppet.
Being a mayor is pretty much your own government, you can make new policies and stuff. If you want law changes, get a petition, pass it to the mayor and get him to get it passed.
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Then you need to find someone who can pass the security check and hasn't been involved in terrorist activity who will be a FLA muppet.
Being a mayor is pretty much your own government, you can make new policies and stuff. If you want law changes, get a petition, pass it to the mayor and get him to get it passed.
Oh yes we'll put some random good guy in power who can then just tell FLA to f**k off and raise up his own regime. :rolleyes:
That mayor stuff wouldn't work for us, Ramo's idea is best solution for now.
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Oh yes we'll put some random good guy in power who can then just tell FLA to f**k off and raise up his own regime. :rolleyes:
That mayor stuff wouldn't work for us, Ramo's idea is best solution for now.
Find a random good guy. Ramo's ideas is very complicated.
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The helicopter that got shot down as not a "good" example of how roleplay events between ARPD and FLA should occur.
I'm talking about what happened after that. I mean, helicopters get shot down if they behave like that after multiple warnings. Nothing out of the ordinary. I applaud everyone there for not turning it into some DM fest, though. Good situation for sure.
Don't make it seem as if what you did was perfectly acceptable. It was not. You killed an officer while INSIDE the most populated city with law enforcement and you treat it as if it was a joke?
What your saying sound something like this: the chopper was annoying us so we killed the cop in it but don't shoot as us so it won't cause DM fest.
As you must know very well killing a cop is pretty much the quickest way to trigger a high profile response form law enforcement.
If you want to overcomplicate everything, be my guest. The chopper was told to leave/stop hovering over us like that probably a dozen times. He failed to do that, thus threatening us and provoking that response. I'm not exactly sure what led to opening fire in the end, but that chopper had it coming, for sure.
You could've responded but you choose not to avenge the chopper. Therefore you didn't die right there at Verona Beach and I think this is a good example of a good situation where bloodshed is avoided from both sides.
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If you want to overcomplicate everything, be my guest. The chopper was told to leave/stop hovering over us like that probably a dozen times. He failed to do that, thus threatening us and provoking that response.
Provoking you? And you think killing a cop isn't provoking the entire law enforcement? Lets not talk about "over complicating", we know how much you tend to "over complicate" things when it suits you. Remember your arrest.
Again, ideas regarding how to deal with this will help instead of debate over this one situation.
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Provoking you? And you think killing a cop isn't provoking the entire law enforcement? Lets not talk about "over complicating", we know how much you tend to "over complicate" things when it suits you. Remember your arrest.
Again, ideas regarding how to deal with this will help instead of debate over this one situation.
Yeah, when you hover 10 feet above an entire army when they're aiming at the chopper, telling it to back off 10 times or more, that's pretty asking to get shot sooner or later, combined with what the pilot was shouting back through megaphone.
It is overcomplication, because there really isn't a problem with that situation, we shouldn't even be talking about it, that's how minimal it is.
As for that ''arrest'', yeah I don't think I should've been injured at all, man. After all, only this happened:
=AV=Salmonella(21) has been hit by 50,000 volt of a taser, fell on the ground and are shaking!
[WS]Mircea(29) holds Salmonella's neck to the ground.
TeaM_Arslan(23) jumps on Sal.
Lamperouge155(8) keeeps his knee on salmon's back
Damien_Taylor(1) puts his full weight on him.
[WS]Mircea(29) hits his knee upon Salmonella's wrist.
[WS]Mircea(29) holds Salmonella's neck tighter and tighter.
=AV=Salmonella(21) chokes
Nothing, right?
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=AV=Salmonella(21) has been hit by 50,000 volt of a taser, fell on the ground and are shaking!
[WS]Mircea(29) holds Salmonella's neck to the ground.
TeaM_Arslan(23) jumps on Sal.
Lamperouge155(8) keeeps his knee on salmon's back
Damien_Taylor(1) puts his full weight on him.
[WS]Mircea(29) hits his knee upon Salmonella's wrist.
[WS]Mircea(29) holds Salmonella's neck tighter and tighter.
=AV=Salmonella(21) chokes
Nothing, right?
If that results in a person going into a coma then shit... a lot of lucky people in this world.
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Lmao Sal, I think there would be some broken or badly sprained limbs there IRL. :lol:
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Find a random good guy. Ramo's ideas is very complicated.
It is slightly complicated but I see no other solutions for it. Everyone is trying to be on the top side on this case and I think I've found a neutral win for both.
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If that results in a person going into a coma then shit... a lot of lucky people in this world.
That wasn't what was RPed in the end, but failure to attend to broken ribs, oxygen deprivation, a broken spine and stranglemarks like those, all inflicted during the shock of a 50,000 volts tazer shot, sure as hell could've lead to that.
Anyway, that's not what the topic is about, just wanted to reply on that real quick.
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It is slightly complicated but I see no other solutions for it. Everyone is trying to be on the top side on this case and I think I've found a neutral win for both.
Such things require diplomacy, activist movements, not internal warfare.
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ffs, do you guys have to argue and moan in every single topic!