Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Kojak on November 21, 2009, 12:20:54 pm

Title: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Kojak on November 21, 2009, 12:20:54 pm
GAMBLE AT YOUR OWN RISK

If you choose to play dice with another player you should keep in mind that you are not playing dice against Argonath, but against a random player who may or may not pay you your winnings. Dice is not officially sanctioned by Argonath and Argonath will not take responsibility for any losses you incur while engaged in this type of activity.

Players who 'scam' you by not paying you your winnings will not be banned or forced to pay you. You and you alone are responsible for your money and Argonath administration will no longer intervene in such matters.

If you find yourself the victim of such a scam, you may call the police of take the perpetrator to court, although you should not be surprised if you find the authorities are not especially enthusiastic about helping you.

If you're reading this and you think it means you have a green light to seek out new players so you can part them from their money using this method, for your own sake please think again. Argonath will protect new players from the parasites and predators of San Andreas and if you are found to have wilfully scammed a new player in any way you will be exiled to a far away place in the form of a ban. Be warned.

Kojak

Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Chuck_Norris on November 21, 2009, 12:23:34 pm
Thank you for straightening this, this way i know what i'm looking for :)
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: E-1337 on November 21, 2009, 01:53:16 pm
Voted for sticky!
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Andy on November 21, 2009, 03:44:17 pm
Great words Kojak. That was needed. Hope it's settled and everyone understands now.  :hurray:
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Aksel on November 21, 2009, 03:47:19 pm
Good work.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Pancher on November 22, 2009, 08:26:31 pm
I hope people now understand why i haven't take any actions against players when they done this kind of "bad gambling".
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Seskom on November 22, 2009, 08:29:38 pm
GAMBLE AT YOUR OWN RISK

If you choose to play dice with another player you should keep in mind that you are not playing dice against Argonath, but against a random player who may or may not pay you your winnings. Dice is not officially sanctioned by Argonath and Argonath will not take responsibility for any losses you incur while engaged in this type of activity.

Players who 'scam' you by not paying you your winnings will not be banned or forced to pay you. You and you alone are responsible for your money and Argonath administration will no longer intervene in such matters.

If you find yourself the victim of such a scam, you may call the police of take the perpetrator to court, although you should not be surprised if you find the authorities are not especially enthusiastic about helping you.

If you're reading this and you think it means you have a green light to seek out new players so you can part them from their money using this method, for your own sake please think again. Argonath will protect new players from the parasites and predators of San Andreas and if you are found to have wilfully scammed a new player in any way you will be exiled to a far away place in the form of a ban. Be warned.

Kojak

Court says they cant interveiwe either and what does police do if the person was ban evader?
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Jcstodds on November 22, 2009, 08:45:17 pm
Scamming, and Gambling safely

  Firstly, I'm fed up of people coming to me saying "This player scamming said he will bet me 100k that I could roll higher dice. I rolled dice higher now he wont pay." and lo and behold, neither player who 'bet' even had such amounts, or any intention of paying. The winner claims "he is scammer because I lost 100k if he doesn't pay", loser claims "he did not even have 100k to bet". So what to do in this situation?...

Scamming Is only when people lose their own money. It is not scamming if you lost gambling money that you should have/ could have won. So in the scenario above, it is definitely not scamming, so the winner is wrong. Loser is also wrong, since he was dumb enough to gamble with imaginary money.

How to bet safely:

#1 Use a trusted person such as a casino operator (legal) or someone else that both players can trust.
#2 Agree on bets. Send your bet to 3rd party.
#3 If you win, 3rd party pays winner the money.

  This is how casino's (should) work, except you pay the croupier before you bet, if you win they pay back (usually double), if you lose they keep your bet. In casino's, since it is legal you can always take the casino to court if they do not pay.

Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Seskom on November 22, 2009, 09:00:26 pm
Scamming, and Gambling safely

  Firstly, I'm fed up of people coming to me saying "This player scamming said he will bet me 100k that I could roll higher dice. I rolled dice higher now he wont pay." and lo and behold, neither player who 'bet' even had such amounts, or any intention of paying. The winner claims "he is scammer because I lost 100k if he doesn't pay", loser claims "he did not even have 100k to bet". So what to do in this situation?...

Scamming Is only when people lose their own money. It is not scamming if you lost gambling money that you should have/ could have won. So in the scenario above, it is definitely not scamming, so the winner is wrong. Loser is also wrong, since he was dumb enough to gamble with imaginary money.

How to bet safely:

#1 Use a trusted person such as a casino operator (legal) or someone else that both players can trust.
#2 Agree on bets. Send your bet to 3rd party.
#3 If you win, 3rd party pays winner the money.

  This is how casino's (should) work, except you pay the croupier before you bet, if you win they pay back (usually double), if you lose they keep your bet. In casino's, since it is legal you can always take the casino to court if they do not pay.

Its called attempted scamming cause you could have lost 100k and he could have gained 100k so it was ATTEMPTED scam wich failed hardcore
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Rusty on November 23, 2009, 07:59:45 am
With the increase in Gambling nowadays I see more regulars complaining over this, I had one instant this guy I shall not name pm'd me and starting moaning like hell cause someone said they'd pay him 100k for a taxi ride and when they didn't he got all upset and kept harrassing me to take action when I told him I won't as it's his own problem. 

Want to Gamble either politely ask an admin (I'd watch over a bet when am free of time) to watch or someone else.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Inkognito on November 23, 2009, 08:30:22 am
I remember such cases have has happend before. There were stated, that gambling outside casinos are illegal. So, if you decide to gamble in a casino - feel free to use video and audio recorder to record agreement between players to gamble in one or another sum, and, I believe feel free to take player to the court case. If courthouse would dissagree on charges for 'scamming', you could start another charge for breaking agreement between two players. Agreement should sound like that: I, Player A, Agree to pay the sum of <...>$, if in 'Highest Wins' Dice game I will loose. Sum will be paid to Player B if he would get higher number then me. Then, player B should repeat the same, just with the names changed :) Admins wouldn't be able to help you, but courthouse - should.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Seskom on November 23, 2009, 04:07:08 pm
I remember such cases have has happend before. There were stated, that gambling outside casinos are illegal. So, if you decide to gamble in a casino - feel free to use video and audio recorder to record agreement between players to gamble in one or another sum, and, I believe feel free to take player to the court case. If courthouse would dissagree on charges for 'scamming', you could start another charge for breaking agreement between two players. Agreement should sound like that: I, Player A, Agree to pay the sum of <...>$, if in 'Highest Wins' Dice game I will loose. Sum will be paid to Player B if he would get higher number then me. Then, player B should repeat the same, just with the names changed :) Admins wouldn't be able to help you, but courthouse - should.
Court dosent accept cases made by unoffical worker of casino...
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Pandalink on November 23, 2009, 04:19:24 pm
Scamming Is only when people lose their own money. It is not scamming if you lost gambling money that you should have/ could have won. So in the scenario above, it is definitely not scamming, so the winner is wrong. Loser is also wrong, since he was dumb enough to gamble with imaginary money.

So basically, scamming is allowed.
Just another reason not to gamble.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Kojak on November 23, 2009, 05:40:16 pm
Just another reason not to gamble.

It's a reason to think for yourselves, to weigh up the risks and take responsibility for your own actions. Personally, given my statement above, I would choose not to gamble. You can decide for yourself.

Kojak


Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Gandalf on November 23, 2009, 05:59:27 pm
So basically, scamming is allowed.

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Nn23fUalZuWgQM:http://content.foto.mail.ru/list/thestrokes/1/i-27.jpg)

Scamming is when a player is losing money as a result of a trick.
An experinced player telling a new one to wire him 2k in order to get more money is a scam.
Gambling for money and not paying when you lose is not a scam, its taking a risk. If the person you gamble with happens to be having some friends, you might end up hurt...
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Vince on November 23, 2009, 06:52:54 pm
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Nn23fUalZuWgQM:http://content.foto.mail.ru/list/thestrokes/1/i-27.jpg)

Scamming is when a player is losing money as a result of a trick.
An experinced player telling a new one to wire him 2k in order to get more money is a scam.
Gambling for money and not paying when you lose is not a scam, its taking a risk. If the person you gamble with happens to be having some friends, you might end up hurt...

Just as a little note, same applies for other illegal activity such as drug dealing.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Jerry on November 24, 2009, 05:07:08 pm
Thank You For This Information.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Pancher on December 02, 2009, 03:48:07 pm
Just cos someone is doing an illegal activity with taking risk of dealing with money (dicing), weapons or drugs doesn't mean they are scamming.. It's as mention above a RISK you take cos you cannot take it to court as you would be doing if you where running a company who offers "legal" services..
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Quang on December 04, 2009, 02:50:45 pm
Ok. Thanks for the update... very helpfull
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Y2JFaN on December 07, 2009, 02:29:21 am
I would really appreciate if this rule is looked into.

Today i was gambling with [Will tell as C_G... not revealing his name] and C_G said, 100k bet, for blackjack, and rolled. he busted (22) and /q'd.  around 5 minutes later he logged in and i asked him 'Do you have my 100k!?' and he said 'Gamble at your own risk' insisting he will not pay me. I have F8 pictures of this situation, and i told him. All he did was say the same gamble at your own risk. And ALSO said it was MY FAULT! I find this very ridiculous and this rule should be changed, it seems players are taking advantage of this now and NOT paying their gambling dues. Although I do respect the administrator's decision, I'm not complaining on what they have said, but the way people are abusing this for their own work.

sorry if this offended anyone or an administrator, but I'm just telling what I'm seeing / experiencing.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Rusty on December 07, 2009, 08:10:40 am
Gambling for money and not paying when you lose is not a scam, its taking a risk. If the person you gamble with happens to be having some friends, you might end up hurt...

Doesn't need to be changed, maybe you should just tell him you and "friends" will take care of him when you see him next.  Yes I mean kidnapping him, killing him or whatever you fancy you have a valid reason to and I don't see it as DMING if he was to scream it.  But constantly doing it well that's another story..

I would really appreciate if this rule is looked into.

Today i was gambling with [Will tell as C_G... not revealing his name] and C_G said, 100k bet, for blackjack, and rolled. he busted (22) and /q'd.  around 5 minutes later he logged in and i asked him 'Do you have my 100k!?' and he said 'Gamble at your own risk' insisting he will not pay me. I have F8 pictures of this situation, and i told him. All he did was say the same gamble at your own risk. And ALSO said it was MY FAULT! I find this very ridiculous and this rule should be changed, it seems players are taking advantage of this now and NOT paying their gambling dues. Although I do respect the administrator's decision, I'm not complaining on what they have said, but the way people are abusing this for their own work.

sorry if this offended anyone or an administrator, but I'm just telling what I'm seeing / experiencing.

You didn't lose money so why the hell are you complaining cause he didn't pay you?
If you are so fucking moody about it go and kidnap him then tell him if he tries any of the shit he pulled on anyone else and you find out you'll kill him then swiftly give him a beating and leave him in the middle of the Bone County Desert. 

Gamble only with people you trust 100%.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Cutt3r on December 07, 2009, 08:29:59 am
In addition to what rusty said, an alternative is to gamble in a casino with a dealer. That way, both parties pay their bets BEFORE the gambling to the dealer, which should ensure payment. If, in the most absurd situation, the dealer fails to pay the bets, take the owner of the casino/dealer to Court.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Y2JFaN on December 07, 2009, 09:53:08 pm
You didn't lose money so why the hell are you complaining cause he didn't pay you?
If you are so f**king moody about it go and kidnap him then tell him if he tries any of the shit he pulled on anyone else and you find out you'll kill him then swiftly give him a beating and leave him in the middle of the Bone County Desert. 

Gamble only with people you trust 100%.
1. I would have lost the money say i'd have lost. Technically yes i did lose the money. 2. calm down.. 3. You honestly think killing him once will doany thing? All he will is do it again and again.

would you be allowed to ruin this person's name? Such as: tell they are scammers or something?
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Pandalink on December 08, 2009, 03:21:55 pm
You do not have to pay if you lose a bet.
Hence, scamming is allowed outside of casinos.

However, don't expect to be liked anymore.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Cutt3r on December 08, 2009, 03:57:01 pm
Would sincerely advice against usage of the term 'scam' with all grammatical variations and cognate expressions for this particular case of gambling simply because, a scam involves losing money or money's equivalent. When a person obtains a higher number or set of numbers using a few commands, he has/does not lose money or its equivalent. It is a game of luck. All he has lost is a possibility to win money.
Example of a scam - Player 1 takes a loan from player 2, changes name to avoid detection, continues the exercise with player 3 and so on.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Y2JFaN on December 09, 2009, 04:24:24 am
Would sincerely advice against usage of the term 'scam' with all grammatical variations and cognate expressions for this particular case of gambling simply because, a scam involves losing money or money's equivalent. When a person obtains a higher number or set of numbers using a few commands, he has/does not lose money or its equivalent. It is a game of luck. All he has lost is a possibility to win money.
Example of a scam - Player 1 takes a loan from player 2, changes name to avoid detection, continues the exercise with player 3 and so on.
I understand, my question was, are you allowed to spread this info and give this person a 'bad name'? Or is that against the rules?
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Petar on December 12, 2009, 02:16:32 pm
So , If you gamble in Casino , you HAve to pay .
IF you Gamble outside a Casino , you don't have to pay
If you Drug deal , you don't have to pay or give the drugs , same for weapons.

Right ?
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Jcstodds on December 13, 2009, 01:54:24 pm
So , If you gamble in Casino , you HAve to pay .
IF you Gamble outside a Casino , you don't have to pay
If you Drug deal , you don't have to pay or give the drugs , same for weapons.

Right ?

 Yes. But bad things happen :)

It does allow for some more RP when things are stolen, and makes people learn lessons to not trust everyone. However if you steal you most likely will get screwed over. They can freely announce to anyone not to trust you, they can hunt you down until they retrieve what's theirs etc...

So it is not advised to steal!
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: SargentJosh on December 16, 2009, 04:15:03 pm
Many complain about Argonath not being more 'realistic'. Well, here is the chance for it to be 'realistic'.


SCENARIO:

You want to gamble with a finely dress gentleman. You go to an ally or corner and you make bets and dice. You roll a 5, he rolls a 2. He runs off and doesn't pay. Happens in real life, therefore it is a realistic act. Then you have just made Argonath RPG more 'realistic'

Josh -
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: FranK__CostellO on December 26, 2009, 04:13:06 pm
ArgonathRPG forum is now beager in my GoogleChrome  bug ?
 Tell me plaese how to make it in normal size ?
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: SargentJosh on December 26, 2009, 08:54:17 pm
If you are using a laptop. Here is how






________________________
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|A ____________________B|

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Above is an example of a Touch Pad mouse on a laptop

Place a finger at point A, and point B. Slide finger on Point B towards Point A.

If you go too small, slide Finger B back toward Point B.

Adjust accordingly until you get the correct size for you.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on December 30, 2009, 04:11:41 pm
take the perpetrator to court, although you should not be surprised if you find the authorities are not especially enthusiastic about helping you.

there are so many threads that the judges have not even commented on, only the high profile ones, they don't seem enthusiastic about helping anyone, but hey, theres what only 2 for 100 threads?

New Judges need to be hired if you wish to suggest people make new court cases, it's with all respects, a  joke.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Rusty on January 01, 2010, 06:01:39 pm
Just because we won't take action againest people who scam in /dice bets and other illegal gambling doesn't mean you can do the same for Drugs/Weapons/Cars & Property and go around scamming from this as it will lead to punishment if your caught. 
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Clone on January 11, 2010, 02:06:52 pm
Just because we won't take action againest people who scam in /dice bets and other illegal gambling doesn't mean you can do the same for Drugs/Weapons/Cars & Property and go around scamming from this as it will lead to punishment if your caught.
Take a Look at This:
Scamming is not allowed, however to be scamming it has to:
1. Involve a monetary or physical loss (not getting your promised gains is not a loss)
2. Involve legal deals.

Example:
Player A makes a deal with Player B to buy his car and to pay $50.000 extra.
Player B sells his car and Player A kills him.
This is scamming as the players were making a legal deal which was not fulfilled, and could not be avoided.

Example:
Player A wishes to buy weapons outside Ammunation from Player B.
Player A sends the money to Player B and Player B kills him.
This is not scamming, though there is a monetary loss, as the deal is deemed 'illegal'.

Now for a solution.
In the first case, and this also goes with illegal drug deals, there could have been a third trusted player present, Player C.
Player A pays to player C, then Player B sells the car and Player A buys it. After that Player C gives the money to Player B. Of course Player C has to be trusted by both players.

The case of weapon deals is even more simple. Weapons have a sending limit.
There for nothing stands in the way of doing the transaction in small parts.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Mr. Goobii on February 05, 2010, 01:10:16 pm
This will bring more roleplay as people will call the police instead of admins. Really nice to clear these out.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Catzu on March 27, 2010, 10:43:06 pm
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Nn23fUalZuWgQM:http://content.foto.mail.ru/list/thestrokes/1/i-27.jpg)

Scamming is when a player is losing money as a result of a trick.
An experinced player telling a new one to wire him 2k in order to get more money is a scam.
Gambling for money and not paying when you lose is not a scam, its taking a risk. If the person you gamble with happens to be having some friends, you might end up hurt...

I was banned for that Gandi!!! I support your words,its just a risk :D
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Jason_Wade on May 04, 2010, 01:34:25 am
Can i buy a dice in 24/7?
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Janar on May 04, 2010, 05:10:32 pm
No, you can just do /dice ingame.
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Argoplayer on May 04, 2010, 07:19:55 pm
I lost 70k...  :(
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Pierro on August 14, 2010, 03:05:43 am
Mate i lost 150k
Title: Re: Dice and Other Forms of Illicit Gambling
Post by: Jamal on August 14, 2010, 08:39:18 am
700k from a guy who actually has the cash to pay anyway  :lol:
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