Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:VC => VC:MP - Vice City Multiplayer => VC:MP General => Topic started by: muzdaaz on August 07, 2011, 09:17:22 pm
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Hello,
I made this topic to express my feelings/concerns about recent events.
Please refer to following topic:
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=72633.0 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=72633.0)
Due to these changes, one of the most active and loyal players got banned (Perry,Marcell,Kessu). In result, for me, the server changed into.. something else. You may think "oh we just banned few constant rulebreaker, the VCMP server will be a better place for now". Well these players sticked to the server, helped newbies start their RP life (including me) and actually played the game. Marcell for example started helping/training me a while back even tho I was a cop and constantly hunted him (altho I died mostly :)). VCMP community is not that big that we can choose the best of the best and ban all the rest.
We need to accept people as they are and try to adjust to their style, while providing tips for them to improve, instead of plainly start accusing or waiting, waiting, waiting and suddenly: "BOOM ur banned for constantly flaming and disrespecting others who f**k with you all the time while sexually abusing F8, kthxbai, see you when you change your attitude towards them". I agree they overreacted in certain times, but so does anyone else who actually plays in Argo for like 12/7.
About demoting Klaus, like it or not... the dude has contributed a lot to VCMP Argo. Even tho I did not like him at first(trust me), he kept the server running smooth and was an active admin (quite rare thing at the moment). The fact that he has been rolling with Argo for years means that he is an important part of the community. Being demoted due "nazi comment" that can be understood in a different way (altho there were probably other disagreements between owners and him) is wrong in my opinion. Racist comments are bullshit but every man reacts to them and understands them differently. Server needs an active manager, and I cant see any other who has been that loyal to VCMP Argonath. He may have f**ked up some times, but he certainly deserves another chance.
Our little community (which of course is a part of Argonath in case someone starts that BS again)
is a little different. It accepts people as they are and does not force people to be robots, instead creating a unique, realistic atmosphere which is hard to be described via words. There is a cost, one must adjust to others and sometimes get some shit shoveled into his face. It takes some time to understand this but thats how I like to play. After trying other communities, I choose this server exactly due to these reasons.
Would like to hear from VCMP people's opinions on that. Please respect all arguments about this case as this topic was made to discuss and consider other opputunities to solve this. Im sure there are people who disagree with me and that is totally fine. Lets see what you guys think about this. Some time has past and maybe you have got some toughts you would like to share now.
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:hurray:
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I agree with every single word.. Everyone in VCMP (of the requlars) knows each others and that's why we have the gypsy and b00n talks almost all the time..
About Klaus.. He's been here almost from the start... He was already an admin when I joined VCMP (Argonath was my first server) in January 2008.. He's kept the server alive when other abandon it.. I don't see anyone else fitting as good to Manager position than Klaus.. Only because of how active he is and imo he has done the job of Manager very well as far as I'm concerned..
But yeah, to our "little" overreactions, they were way over the top and we deserved our bans as I said in the other topic also.
Props to muzzie of making this topic :bow:
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The gypsy and b00n talks are almost never to offend anyone, it's normal to tease friends.
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Lol I won't lie this time or anything...I get provoked quite easily and my day isn't complete until at least one cuss drops from my tongue, but really...I feel like I got banned just cause I was the most active one. Let's not lie, I believe most of players do cuss and flame, and our admin team always took light punishments cause they always knew it's just a spit-fight, thus the biggest punishment was a temp-ban...my problem is, I feel like I got banned cause I was the most active one in the period of time while owners decided to take actions...I do know that my acting wasn't the best, that I insulted players and such, but if you want to punish everyone for that...you should ban 90% of the players as well, as it seems I was banned cause I was most active by the time... Anyone thinks I would flame, if players would get banned for saying a single 'f**k you' or similar insult? I don't think so...
that's all I have to say for now...I understand what I did was wrong, and I do have a flaming attidute indeed; although I don't throw shit at others without a reason...not to mention that I feel sorrow just cause only I was banned, while, trust me, everyone did flame at least once. I'm the bad guy here just cause I was active and reported...by people who I could report before..
so in short, I did deserve a ban. But I was not the only one that did. Instead of banning the active ones, you could warn the admin team to start executing heavier punishments for flaming and such; and warn the peeps like me to better chill tha fuk down..
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The whole thing was a bad move. Don't say I don't respect the owners or their decisions, because the owners know themselves that I do. I just think that the actions that were taken was an overreaction that for a fact has greatly hurt the servers spirit and activity. Sure these guys made mistakes, but those same guys were so important to the server; only true VCMPers who played the game can understand. I stood up for Marcell because he was a great player, not because he was in my clan. Banning him for something that most players always do seemed harsh in my view. That's why I said it was a shame to see him banned.
Those who know me well know I bleed Argo, and loyalty is something important to me. That's why I'm still around while others in my posistion would of probably walked. I've always been very tolerant to 'flaming' for the reasons already explained. It's hard to explain but its the spirit of the server.
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Lets say it this way. In the past years we have given the VC:MP community too much freedom, which has resulted in them going away from the original Argonath ideas.
We started Argonath because we were not happy with where we played as people there were happy to flame and curse to each other and punish any newcomer who had the nerve to say anything against them. To see one part of Argonath turning in to that behaviour is something we can not accept.
We have always supported Klaus, and would still like to support him. However he and the admin team should realize that they have to run the server to the principles of the owners. And that includes a severe limitation in flaming and offending each other for "friendly jokes", a direct punishment of any racism related issues and removing from the community anyone who feels new people are to be disrespected rather than welcomed.
If Klaus and the current team of admins and players are willing to work under those conditions, we will be happy to continue with them. If they prefer a place where they can shit and insult each other and whoever comes in, they can make it elsewhere.
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It would be too much shit on admin's arms to handle all the flamers we had; especially when some (admins) had activity problems in the past...in the end, if we would be hardcore on punishing flamers, it would be just Klaus active, banning literally everyone. Banning a few people like me for doing something what - let's not lie - most of players did, is wrong in my opinion. Looks like I was the rag doll that's suspossed to be a warning for others. I think the actions were too hardcore, and you could just press the admin team into more serious punishments for flaming, thus this situation that decreased whole server activity wouldn't happen
but im not the one to speak after all the flaming I put people through, right..
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I remember that back in '08 Klaus and Kessu were very helpful, to both me and other players.
Too bad that others are sometimes ruining the fun and influencing the good ones by flaming and making these funny jokes.
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Sure we can work under those conditions, there's no problem in that, but I hope you don't mind with me asking this:
If we still, on the server we love, call each other "boons" for killing someone with M60 (that has been around for years), is it an warnable/bannable offense or can we actually keep doing what we have done for years?
I understand removing the racial comments such as "n*gg* you killed me" and those from main chat, but that (b00n for example) is how we grew to speak to each others in the community I have been in for over three years :)
Also for flaming the newcomers to standing up against someone, I agree with punishing them also.
And I really, truly do hope that even you, owners, would start to play even a little bit in VCMP also, so you can see the atmosphere and such.. It cannot be described with words how we grew together in the past few years within VCMP ;)
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Lets say it this way. In the past years we have given the VC:MP community too much freedom, which has resulted in them going away from the original Argonath ideas.
The freedom you gave to VCMP made it unique, going a little different path (not wrong one tho). Also, I believe that it may be hard to understand how things work there if you come from another community, as did I. Anyway, you can not expect that all regulars will run to help newbies as soon as they join the server. Each man has different personality, thus they will help them but the timing might not be the best. Depending of your luck you may have a good, or you may get a shitty starting experience. I got a little bit of both due what I mentioned before. As time goes, people become friends, some sooner, some later, few ones never. But the friendship combined with ability to tolerate other players and take them as they are is a vital part of what VCMP Argonath is about.
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Speaking of the welcoming new players, I think our server was always a great example, most of newbies were taught the rules in less than a few minutes, and cause of lower player number nobody got discriminating and everyone made something out of himself, when you mention a player's nick from our server, most of people know him. He doesn't need to get banned, flame or hack to get recognised, as long as he speaks english.
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You are indeed right. Ronnel, I have no idea in where you got the idea that new players are not welcomed. Every new player has always been welcomed with open hands. As Marcell has already explained, as the community isn't huge new players find it easier to fit in and get to know everyone.
The gypsy and b00n talks are almost never to offend anyone, it's normal to tease friends.
The word 'b00n' has been taken way out of context by a small majority since I created the term about 2 years ago. Most regular VCMPers understand the term and its meaning, which has no personal intentions whatsoever. Also, the word 'gypsy' was first used by EAF towards Spiral who he himself understands the meaning. No it's not racist, this term is used by travelers themselves. The fact is, that a small majority of people have jumped at the possibility to label these as abusive terms to incriminate those who use them.
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Argonath VC:MP server has indeed, as previously stated, a different method of work. We are not baboons ( no pun intended with boon ) that midlessly run our server with savagery and disrespect. However, seen by a sleepy eye, it might seem that flaming and insulting of all sorts are allowed by the administration team and have been implemented as a rule instead of rulebreaking. This is a lie. Argonath VC:MP server is not a playground for us, it's our second house, we give sweat, tears and blood on this server because we know each other well, as a family we developed our own language, it mostly involves swearing but no one of us takes the swearing seriously WITHIN our regular group of players. Obviously alot of people wish VC:MP to become a sacred land, thing is it's so sacred they don't put their feet on the land. We welcome our newbies well ( look for a second, muzdaaz hasn't been with us that long and he was the one creating this topic! ) but then they are faced with insults flying around on the main chat. People here know me, i've been called perhaps 100 different names ( Me being the reason the word b00n exists ) and i never punished them, i know they mean no harm (And i don't get offended ). But when it comes to other players getting insulted, i've always punished whoever did it.
On a Side Note : The admin team and Klaus have already expressed their willingness to solve things (more than 1 time in more than 1 different place).
2nd Side Note: Still regarding "b00n" and "gypsy". b00n came from me using M60 which killed everyone in 3 shots, klaus then gave me that nickname.
*Gypsy explained by klaus*
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The VC:MPers have come to know each other well, yes. However the problem in the past years is that they have become isolated in a sense from the rest of the Argonath Community, to the point of being racist (discriminatory) against SA:MPers, whether good or bad. In the end, VC:MP's player lineup was made up of an inside circle of players and a lot of new players who ended up not being taught properly, which ended up producing plenty of flaming and deathmatching.
One of the best criticisms I could level at the admin team that served under Klaus (and even at Klaus himself) was the abundance of insults, racism, and flaming that were flying around in VC:MP... circle of friends or not, Argonath is not supposed to tolerate flaming on any Argonath Server, and VC:MP is no exception. Had the majority of leading players in VC:MP not deviated from the Argonath standard, this would have not happened...
Also, I doubt Klaus was demoted from his Manager position for just one simple Nazi comment. Such a move would be out of character for the Owners.
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as a family we developed our own language, it mostly involves swearing but no one of us takes the swearing seriously WITHIN our regular group of players.
You are right, but....
The problem is outside our regular group of players.
No-one gets offended by these kind of jokes as far as they are friendly.
By friendly, I mean "Between friends". If you jokingly swear a person who is NOT your friend, the screenshot situation arises.
We know, people hold all kind of grudges in VCMP....Cops vs Gangs, Gangs vs Gangs, Laggers vs Non-Laggers (:D) etc.
Which is not so bad....I personally prefer these grudges and Klaus encouraged it.
These grudges add to the gaming spirit, it acts as a motivation to players and they stick to the server and community more.
But when you combine these grudges with the language/behavior that has developed in VCMP, it alienates a whole group from the server.
The most prominent group being ARPD, which has been alienated in the past (and then you nabs say "ARPD is inactive..." :D)
No-One appreciates jokes from a player who is on your "Dislike-List".
And, Why should they?
They have all the right to take those screen-shots and complain about the behavior because it is not globally acceptable.
Now, we can fix this situation.
Either, you guys dont build any grudges for other players.
Now I know, thats very hard....you got to hate somebody....
OK, no problem....If you hate somebody, dont express it in a way that it gets you in trouble.
That actually means, no more freedom. But, Hey! we had enough freedom till now :)
The Owners stated this, and we got to live with it if we want to play here anymore.
PS: I dont know a single guy who ever gets offended by "gypsy" or "b00N"....So, im wondering why you guys discussing it.
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The VC:MPers have come to know each other well, yes. However the problem in the past years is that they have become isolated in a sense from the rest of the Argonath Community, to the point of being racist (discriminatory) against SA:MPers, whether good or bad. In the end, VC:MP's player lineup was made up of an inside circle of players and a lot of new players who ended up not being taught properly, which ended up producing plenty of flaming and deathmatching.
One of the best criticisms I could level at the admin team that served under Klaus (and even at Klaus himself) was the abundance of insults, racism, and flaming that were flying around in VC:MP... circle of friends or not, Argonath is not supposed to tolerate flaming on any Argonath Server, and VC:MP is no exception. Had the majority of leading players in VC:MP not deviated from the Argonath standard, this would have not happened...
Also, I doubt Klaus was demoted from his Manager position for just one simple Nazi comment. Such a move would be out of character for the Owners.
We never disrespected SAMP'ers (as you call them) just cause they play SAMP. They earned the disrespect by their own hands, coming to the server and trying to blackmail us just cause they don't like how the server is... most of people were like that, thus the next SAMPers earned disrespect from the regulars. A stereotype was circulating in air like a virus.
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Then it was a problem on part of VC:MP players to look as all SA:MP players in the same way. Even I received cold stares when I joined VC:MP because I work on SA:MP, despite the fact I became an SA:MP Admin to help fix the situation there.
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It's not that VCMP dislikes SAMPers, it's that SAMPers dislike VCMP, in which resulted a bad habit of giving icecold welcome to ANY samp player that joins VCMP.
aXXo: The gypsy/boon talk was referred by owners and claimed as offensive behaviour which is not acceptable.
JDC: The new players were taught very well about the rules and such, it's that new players grew along with other VCMP community to be what we are now.
Tho' aXXo is right, the one's outside of "reqular" VCMP group of players, there's no way for them to understand how we've been acting on the server for a longer time not many can imagine.
Many, like muzzie (the one who made this topic) for example, gets used to it very quickly, some takes time and others not at all.
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VCMP players grew to dislike those who came to the server from SAMP etc just to moan about how things are run differently; you can't blame them for that. I've already mentioned before how new players are treated with the upmost respect, unless they're just troublemakers.
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It shouldn't happen regardless. It's one thing to not agree on ideas, but to be prejudice against another player because of the server they play on is ridiculous. We are one community. It goes both ways too. No one should discriminate against you either.
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It shouldn't happen regardless. It's one thing to not agree on ideas, but to be prejudice against another player because of the server they play on is ridiculous. We are one community. It goes both ways too. No one should discriminate against you either.
In general, the problem is about individual players who come from another gaming atmosphere (SAMP for example). They join the server and expect things to work in a same way as in their previous one. People often ragequit, unable to get to know those people who insulted them in any way, creating a shitty first expression, which leads to dislike between both players. Of course it is wrong to label the server they are coming from instead of those individuals, yet you can not change the way a man thinks. It's very common IRL aswell (ex: "niggaz always blast people and steal stuff"). In my opinion, the best thing we can do is to dislike the constant whiner/flamer instead of the server he is coming from.
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I agree with every single word Muzdaaz said.
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I agree with Muz too. He's actually the one who was the bravest and had most nerves to start this topic.
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Im proud of you muz
I think the banned ones (perry,marcell,kessu) have to be unbanned i think the ban maybe woke them up but the server is quite boring when you have no friends, amd especially these people who joke about eachother. And if you feel attacked by the word gypsy and b00n then ask what they mean with it, the first time i got called a gypsy i asked the person what he meant and he said: i was lolling. So i didnt mind... Maybe vcmp is not a normal server where players compete but where they became friends and now it is like one big group of em who respect eachother and sometimes make fun of eacother.
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In general, the problem is about individual players who come from another gaming atmosphere (SAMP for example). They join the server and expect things to work in a same way as in their previous one. People often ragequit, unable to get to know those people who insulted them in any way, creating a shitty first expression, which leads to dislike between both players. Of course it is wrong to label the server they are coming from instead of those individuals, yet you can not change the way a man thinks. It's very common IRL aswell (ex: "niggaz always blast people and steal stuff"). In my opinion, the best thing we can do is to dislike the constant whiner/flamer instead of the server he is coming from.
We are an Argonath community, and that means that people should behave like we believe is right.
That certainly does not mean to turn VC:MP in to a copy of SA:MP, we would be very much against that. However it does mean to treat others with respect and forget about discrimination.
I do not know how its in your contry today, but we were taught that an offensive word is an offensive word, and will be dealt with as such. The concept of discriminating between friends who you can call by any offensive name as they are friends and strangers that you can not call offensive names as they are not your friend is something we will never support.
Do you consider me your friend ? Then you are a gay noob. If not, you are a nice guy...
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ok gandalf we live in the same country and here it is the same as on VC:MP friends make jokes about eacother and like i said before: they know how far they can go because it is a tiny server actually.
and yes if im your friend and you call me a gay noob then ill say: but you were dancing on a boat yesterday? so we are even then it is finished, most people laugh a bit. but we never do this behaviour to newcomers mostly when we get to know them a bit it start with a little joke and 90% doesnt even matter. and the other 10% are quite fast pissed or as we say in dutch 'snel op zijn teentjes getrapt' so that is not our problem that they are easily pissed it is theirs, and then we know we cant make jokes against that person, but if he understood it he will adjust himself and make jokes back, so it is fine
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I do not know how its in your contry today, but we were taught that an offensive wo rd is an offensive word, and will be dealt with as such. The concept of discriminating between friends who you can call by any offensive name as they are friends and strangers that you can not call offensive names as they are not your friend is something we will never support.
I would never like to see anyone else nor myself insulting someone (not even my friends) via stupid and childish words like "gay,fag,cunt" etc. This is retarded and mostly used by raging people running low on decent counter-arguments.
Im talking about terms that are used mostly inside Argonath VCMP, which may have totally different meaning than to those coming from somewhere else. Using common sense people know the meanings of offensive words like fucker, cunt, dick etc, but terms such as gypsy and boon are not to be taken as offensive ones, at least inside VCMP. While we are a part of Argonath, some terms, traditions etc. may differ from others. If in some country, your name would mean "asshole", would you like to nuke that country?
Do you consider me your friend ? Then you are a gay noob. If not, you are a nice guy...
I dont even think about calling my friends gay noobs, nor should you :) The words that I'm talking about are a part of our terms/expressions inside VCMP, and "gay noobs" is not one of them.
Well, If I get your point right, you want new players not to get the feeling like swearing, disrespecting others is normal and expected.
Ill personally do my best to avoid insulting others via our inside terms I use and explain them if needed.
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I do play on the VC:MP server occasionally and have never yet recieved 'Cold stares' nor flaming.
Joined it yesterday,Talked to Klaus about Random stuff while he ran around taking pictures.Joined a few days back and played with a few players as a cop...
But you know how it is 'The first impression is the last impression'....
I got a good one... Don't know about y'all..
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A good place to share my point of view.
After Klaus' demotion, Argonath VC:MP has changed into sweet and full of irony community, where even Bin Laden would be welcomed with highest honours... We've seen a massive number of former players, who are strong, but only on paper and rarely spotted in-game; everywhere's amenity and politeness sometimes clearly reached the level of hypocrisy...
I'm not going to defend my clanmates here, as I wanted to kick M. and P. from EAF after the banishments. My point is to show (in most unbiassed way) that our server has completely lost it's track after manager loss; being often offline and without every-day playerbase. Moreover, that Klaus was a right guy on the right place. We need him or his successor to take care of beta's and new scripts release, as soon as possible.
Eventually, words/terms like gypsy or b00n (even if they're accepted in VC:MP community) may still offend, think about newcomers or guys from other divisions... Unless you're talking in private or in group of friends, I suggest everyone to drop those to prevent future scuffles.
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Eventually, words/terms like gypsy or b00n (even if they're accepted in VC:MP community) may still offend, think about newcomers or guys from other divisions... Unless you're talking in private or in group of friends, I suggest everyone to drop those to prevent future scuffles.
Its not really as lot of you might think:
*** Newbie joined the server.
guy1: GYYYYPPPPSYYYY !!!!11111
guy2: noo, BOOOOOOOOOOOOOON
Besides, if you get offended by a word you dont even know really well, then I feel sorry for you.
And even if you do know the original meanings:
Gypsy one:
Descendant of the original Indian travellers who arrived in Western Europe after the downfall of the Byzantine empire in the 15th Century. The called themselves the 'Lords of Little Egypt' which contracted to Egyptians, Gyptians and eventually Gypsies or Gyppos. Little Egypt was the name given to the area we now call Turkey.
And the word BOON is already explained and should be quite clear that its not offensive.
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I don't think anything has changed in a major way. I presume Gandalf and Aragorn want to pull VC:MP closer to the other Argonath servers now and tell people what is right and what is wrong since most have probably been mislead over the years.
If there will be new regulations, so be it. Our administrator team won't have any problems adjusting to them since all of them were picked for a reason - fast learners might be one of them.
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I don't think anything has changed in a major way.
That's because you have not been in game the past few weeks
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Its not really as lot of you might think:
*** Newbie joined the server.
guy1: GYYYYPPPPSYYYY !!!!11111
guy2: noo, BOOOOOOOOOOOOOON
Besides, if you get offended by a word you dont even know really well, then I feel sorry for you.
And even if you do know the original meanings:
Gypsy one:
And the word BOON is already explained and should be quite clear that its not offensive.
It does not matter if it's meant to be offensive or not, it's already been clearly stated by several people that it can be taken in an offensive way. That's the same reason why people aren't allowed to call each other noobs in Argo either, even if joking. If someone gets hurt, it's breaking the rules.
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It does not matter if it's meant to be offensive or not, it's already been clearly stated by several people that it can be taken in an offensive way. That's the same reason why people aren't allowed to call each other noobs in Argo either, even if joking. If someone gets hurt, it's breaking the rules.
Calling someone a noob can obviously be taken in an offensive way. However if the take the examples mentioned earlier offensively then you are only making yourself look uneducated. The terms have been described earlier in this topic, which clearly explains how such terms can not be taken offensively. Facts are facts, and opinions don't change that.
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True, the server changed a lot without some of our vital players such as marcell and perry. It's really not the same place. About what marcell said earlier, that he isn't the only one who flames and was banned because he was the most active one- I don't think thats the reason really. I think the reason is that you're already a quite experienced player on Argonath, and that kind of behaviour isn't expected from a fairly old player.
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I think the reason is that you're already a quite experienced player on Argonath, and that kind of behaviour isn't expected from a fairly old player.
Pretty much nailed the reason right there. Well said man.
...then you are only making yourself look uneducated.
If you are going to discuss flaming issues within the community, don't flame me in the process of stating your side of things.
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If you are going to discuss flaming issues within the community, don't flame me in the process of stating your side of things.
That wasn't flame, but your reaction just proves my point even more so
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It does not matter if it's meant to be offensive or not, it's already been clearly stated by several people that it can be taken in an offensive way. That's the same reason why people aren't allowed to call each other noobs in Argo either, even if joking. If someone gets hurt, it's breaking the rules.
Words like 'Boon' and 'Gypsy' Aren't meant to be offensive, so there's no need to be too paranoid about them.
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Words like 'Boon' and 'Gypsy' Aren't meant to be offensive, so there's no need to be too paranoid about them.
Like I said before, even if they aren't meant to be, people are taking offense to it, so you guys have to be careful about what you say.
@Klaus: Stop flaming. That doesn't prove anything. Making a comment calling someone uneducated is only going to piss them off more, not help the situation. If someone is flamed jokingly and they take it in a serious way, that is not being uneducated. Some people take offense to things that can be meant in a joking way. It has nothing to do with intelligence.
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guys today i got unbanned, i went on argo thrilled to be playing again. i came in noone was online it was boring but when most of the guys came on there was a tense atmosphere it wasnt good and at that point i realized we need kessu,marcell,perry back the server used to be relaxed and fun but just got anxious and kinda nervous. that is not a way of having fun so i suggest to take everyone back including klaus in what he used to be. if this is the way it remains i consider to quit this game. the statement of owners topic may showed them a lesson, but now it is time to bring them back.
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It does not matter if it's meant to be offensive or not, it's already been clearly stated by several people that it can be taken in an offensive way.
Everything can be taken in an offensive way.
@Klaus: Stop flaming. That doesn't prove anything. Making a comment calling someone uneducated is only going to piss them off more, not help the situation. If someone is flamed jokingly and they take it in a serious way, that is not being uneducated. Some people take offense to things that can be meant in a joking way. It has nothing to do with intelligence.
I see no flame in Klaus's post. Meanings of these words have been clearly provided in the topic so please try to understand them. There is no point to start accusing someone of flaming over one little sentence that was not made to insult you. Lets keep this topic argument based.
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To bring them back won't be the community's request, but more-so something they have to deal with themselves and prove to the Server Owners. As for the server itself, yes, losing key figures in a community will change how things run, but it doesn't last forever like that and eventually things will get back on track. It's just going to take some effort from the players themselves to get the ball rolling again.
There is no point to start accusing someone of flaming over one little sentence that was not made to insult you.
I am not accusing him of anything. He said people like that were uneducated, and then said his point was proven when I stated my reply to it. That was offensive, pure and simple. We have moved on from that, so please don't continue it. The discussion is already back on topic.
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Well, it wont be the same lets take for example a family (son,daughter,father,mother) lets say klaus is the mother he takes care of almost everything he is always ready and willing to help you. But if yoy take the mother away from the family and then things go wrong...
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Well, it wont be the same lets take for example a family (son,daughter,father,mother) lets say klaus is the mother he takes care of almost everything he is always ready and willing to help you. But if yoy take the mother away from the family and then things go wrong...
Well like I said, it's going to take time for things to recover with the changes in the community, but it is possible. It'll just take effort from the users to happen.
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Well if im alone in the server cuz no1 wants to play cuz of the tense atmosphere it wont hurry up..
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To bring them back won't be the community's request, but more-so something they have to deal with themselves and prove to the Server Owners. As for the server itself, yes, losing key figures in a community will change how things run, but it doesn't last forever like that and eventually things will get back on track. It's just going to take some effort from the players themselves to get the ball rolling again.
We are a part of this community, many people agree thus it should be taken seriously.
When things get rough and those loyal to the community get wiped, what message does it send to new ones? That their efforts mean shit and important things can change in a matter of minutes.
I am not accusing him of anything. He said people like that were uneducated, and then said his point was proven when I stated my reply to it. That was offensive, pure and simple. We have moved on from that, so please don't continue it. The discussion is already back on topic.
Please, I know that this kind of sentence may have somehow offended you, but please can we keep this topic clean of stuff like that. If you have a problem, PM him and ask what he means under that if you really have to but this topic is not the place to settle these things.
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I am not accusing him of anything.
You accused me of flaming, which I obviously wasn't as others have mentioned. My point is that anyone who takes the word "Gypsy" offensive is obviously uneducated in the English language as they do not know its true meaning. This is not insulting in any way, I'm simply laying down the facts.
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You accused me of flaming, which I obviously wasn't as others have mentioned. My point is that anyone who takes the word "Gypsy" offensive is obviously uneducated in the English language as they do not know its true meaning. This is not insulting in any way, I'm simply laying down the facts.
Knowing it's true meaning has nothing to do with the fact that people took it offensively. If I jokingly called someone a crappy criminal because they got ran over by a cop, they might laugh, but if I call someone else that, they may get mad at me for it. Like I said before, education has absolutely nothing to do with how people take things. Knowing the true meaning or not doesn't mean someone should automatically not take offense to it.
We are a part of this community, many people agree thus it should be taken seriously.
When things get rough and those loyal to the community get wiped, what message does it send to new ones? That their efforts mean shit and important things can change in a matter of minutes.
True, but the new players are different people than those that were removed from the community, and that's an issue only between those users and the Community Leadership. Yes, it looks bad to new players, but on-going issues shouldn't be effecting them this greatly if the veteran/regular users are willing to step in and reassure them. It's going to take an effort, and likely a large one from the users to get the server back on it's feet, but it's not impossible, just difficult. Although it may not seem like it, the rest of Argo is on your side. None of us want to see VC:MP die or fail. It is a great server and although it's had it's own issues just like all the other ones have, no one wants it to disappear.
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True, but the new players are different people than those that were removed from the community, and that's an issue only between those users and the Community Leadership. Yes, it looks bad to new players, but on-going issues shouldn't be effecting them this greatly if the veteran/regular users are willing to step in and reassure them. It's going to take an effort, and likely a large one from the users to get the server back on it's feet, but it's not impossible, just difficult. Although it may not seem like it, the rest of Argo is on your side. None of us want to see VC:MP die or fail. It is a great server and although it's had it's own issues just like all the other ones have, no one wants it to disappear.
Yet I can see no point to remove them. They are friendly and loyal men, willing to help newbies and spend time with them. Removing men from the server while there is a opportunity to take the time out and explain them what they did wrong and how to act in these situations (instead of like : "We don't tolerate this, if you don't understand then its your own fault"). I'm sure they would understand and take proper actions.
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Yet I can see no point to remove them. They are friendly and loyal men, willing to help newbies and spend time with them. Removing men from the server while there is a opportunity to take the time out and explain them what they did wrong and how to act in these situations (instead of like : "We don't tolerate this, if you don't understand then its your own fault"). I'm sure they would understand and take proper actions.
Well like I said, that's something between them and Community Leadership to resolve. Regardless, we cannot change the past and we need to move on. If they come back and things are resolved with no more issues, then all is well, but until then the server cannot survive on people begging for them to return. Players need to step up and take control over the community they created by allowing for a positive, productive gaming environment.
Remember, everyone in Argonath is equal. Rank means nothing when it comes to roleplaying or respect. Everyone should be treated equally, whether you are a new player or a Server Owner. That means we, as players, are just as capable of continuing to make VC:MP a fun place to play as anyone else in the higher ranks are. It just takes dedication and compassion to pull off. :)
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I agree with muzzie on this one once again... Taking away the spine of vcmp basically may break the neck of new players...
Banning me marcell and perry the community may survive due to it being a large hit, but not unrecoverable... Demoting Klaus was the biggest hit to vcmp it has ever gotten and is extremely hard to recover from.. Like Jason pointed it out, taking out the mother from the family and after it family goes downhill and it goes hard.. This is what happened to vcmp with the actions happened so far.
Also I agree with ferraris post of saying that the reason for a ban is not that you were the most active one, but a reqular who already is expected to follow the rules at anytime..
About Klaus flaming... No wonder he got demoted if that's what people call flaming now a days. I see nothing offensive in the post and yet is has been taken as "flaming".
Not knowing what a word means and taking it offensive? I don't get the point. People CANNOT seriously offend from a word of what they THINK it means and not what it really means.. If I call someone a bananaboy in vcmp, thus far NONE has taken it as a flame.. Leonardo didn't say anything when I called him the old fart..
What I don't get, is that WHAT do you people really mean with flaming? I always thought it's something that is meant as offensive and is personal.. Not some random word you don't even know meaning of..
TL;DR
Biggest hit to vcmp : Demoting Klaus, very hard for the community to come back from
Large hit to vcmp: Banning me, marcell and Perry. It's rather hard to recover from but much easier than Klaus's demotion.
WHAT is flaming now a days in Argonath?
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If calling each other gay noobs is an inside joke, then inside jokes should be kept inside...
If this community considers someone like Marcell, who flames a lot, to be a vital player of this community, then clearly something is wrong here...
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Flaming is defined as saying something that offends someone. It doesn't matter what you meant, it's how it's taken that counts. If you didn't mean to offend someone by it, you can simply apologize and everyone will move on, admins included, but if you sit there defending what you said, it's clear you don't care about the user's feelings as much as you care about how you look in front of everyone else. The point is just don't say it unless you know for sure your friend will take it as a joke, and even then, be careful.
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Amongst VCMP requlars, Marcell is respected reqular along with the others and is considered to be part of vital players in this community.
And yet again, If I may ask, how does this post (JDCs) help him not to flame when you actually provoke him with the post by saying he's basically trash in vcmp?
Now look into mirror and think again why exactly the ones who plays VCMP actively are talking and why others aren't in this topic.
SugarD: ANYTHING can be taken offensive... And I mean ANYTHING... It's not about how it's taken, it's about WHO is saying to WHO.. Clearly if you don't like someone you consider it as a "OMG HE FLAMED ME ADMIN PLS BAN" but what happens when his/hers own friend says it? It's ok of course.
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SugarD: ANYTHING can be taken offensive... And I mean ANYTHING... It's not about how it's taken, it's about WHO is saying to WHO.. Clearly if you don't like someone you consider it as a "OMG HE FLAMED ME ADMIN PLS BAN" but what happens when his/hers own friend says it? It's ok of course.
Being friends does not make it okay to say anything. Your own friends can take offense to something you say as well, even if you normally go very far with joking around. It IS how it's taken that matters, because as you said, anything can be offensive. The point is to avoid offending them in the first place and just have a good time. If they take it offensively, apologize and move on instead of defending your actions. It's not hard. If everyone did this, the world would be much better off.
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SUGARD NOW im finished with you! you think you can change this server yeah?? no go away you dont even play the game. im speaking for al vcmp'ers here to say we want klaus back as our manager and marcell perry and kessu back! all of us wants things to get back to normal...
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As I told, you can take anything from your friend, but when someone who you don't like calls you with EXACTLY the same you will report him and not your friend. I have seen it happening, even I have been reported for that.
If you can't get that through your thick head, please, stop posting...
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As I told, you can take anything from your friend, but when someone who you don't like calls you with EXACTLY the same you will report him and not your friend. I have seen it happening, even I have been reported for that.
If you can't get that through your thick head, please, stop posting...
You are still wrong. Just being your friend doesn't mean they will automatically not take offense to any joking insults you make. Everyone is different. Yes, they are less likely to, but that doesn't mean they won't be completely free from the emotions involving the insults. If that were true, then this wouldn't be an issue in the server to begin with.
SUGARD NOW im finished with you! you think you can change this server yeah?? no go away you dont even play the game. im speaking for al vcmp'ers here to say we want klaus back as our manager and marcell perry and kessu back! all of us wants things to get back to normal...
That's fine, don't respond to my statements then. Don't accuse me of not playing there because I have and do. You openly admitted that you were just unbanned, so to say you know I don't play there is an outrageous statement. I am trying to be friendly in my discussions as much as possible, despite them being touchy subjects. If you can't stay calm, walk away for a bit and calm down.
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dont act like you are god... guess what you are not! even better you are a 'gypsy' 'noob' and 'b00n' yes you try to be friendly fine.. go be friendly somewhere else, we just want to get things back to how it was. and you are not really helping with it.
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dont act like you are god... guess what you are not! even better you are a 'gypsy' 'noob' and 'b00n' yes you try to be friendly fine.. go be friendly somewhere else, we just want to get things back to how it was. and you are not really helping with it.
Don't flame.
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hahaha go cry at your mother about words who dont have a real meaning... only you get offended by it
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If this community considers someone like Marcell, who flames a lot, to be a vital player of this community, then clearly something is wrong here...
have you got anything to support that barbaric talk or shall i take it as provocation? sir, you have offended me. thus, I feel that you're not better than me (not better than a flamer, as you said)
maybe they think im vital for the server cause i actually play the game often and try to keep it alive; instead of criticizing players I don't know for more than 5 minutes...maybe because they don't put a large community with more than 100 players to two bags, 'flamers and non flamers'
everyone has their patience limit for a day....i am quite easily provoked...definately more than some of the players...flaming wasn't reallly cared about before, as even stated by klaus - most of admins realised its nothing 'important' so the punishments were light...i dont see how i made myself a flamer if i just did what most of people did by that time....everyone flames, less or more, it still happens...deal with it, not everyone is perfect
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hahaha go cry at your mother about words who dont have a real meaning... only you get offended by it
Stop flaming.
Guys, long story short, if you want these guys back into the server, encourage them to show it to the Server Owners in a positive way that they deserve to be back so the Server Owners WANT to unban them. Moaning about how things have changed without them will only anger the Server Owners towards the server more.
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SugarD: Stop trying to be a goddamn Mr. Perfect who is always right. Even you KNOW it's about who says it and that of course leads in to how you take it.
For example you probably take it as a "OMG FLAME" if I call you b00n in VCMP for killing me with M60. And why is that? Because you DO NOT know where the word comes from and that actually it has nothing to do with noob, even if you say it does ONLY because it's noob backwise.
About the definition of flaming, I shall use what Aragorn and Gandalf themselves has taught me.
There's an "insult" like "Your a noob"
There's an "flame" like "You m*therf*cking piece of sh*t"
See the difference between them? Flaming gets MUCH more personal and is ALOT stronger. That's the way admin job was taught to me by the very owners of Argonath, in MTA VC and in SAMP...
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but you are not a regular vcmp player so you dont know the atmosphere how it was and how it is now and it went down faster then you can say: dont flame
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but you are not a regular vcmp player so you dont know the atmosphere how it was and how it is now and it went down faster then you can say: dont flame
Yes, I do know, and believe it or not, I was there for it. Just because you didn't see me doesn't mean I don't know what was going on.
Even you KNOW it's about who says it and that of course leads in to how you take it.
Who says it does not matter. We are all equal in this community. It's how it's taken that matters, hence why saying something to one person can be taken differently than saying it to another. Admins should be treating everyone equally when administrating them.
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Yes, I do know, and believe it or not, I was there for it. Just because you didn't see me doesn't mean I don't know what was going on.
Who says it does not matter. We are all equal in this community. It's how it's taken that matters, hence why saying something to one person can be taken differently than saying it to another.
Yeah, you were on maybe once a week..
You need to be on the server almost DAILY and for a long time to KNOW the atmosphere of it. You simply do not know it.
If your playing "I'm a retard trick" your doing it great.
READ what I say.
If I tell Klaus that he is BANANABOY he won't even notice me saying it, because obviously everything's ok between us.
If I told that YOU are bananaboy, you'd run tail between your legs to admins with "OMG FLAME BAN HIM" ....
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Yeah, you were on maybe once a week..
You need to be on the server almost DAILY and for a long time to KNOW the atmosphere of it. You simply do not know it.
I was there much more often than most think. Not seeing me doesn't mean I wasn't there ;)
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if you go in the server take a dump in vcpd hq and leave ye nobody will notice :P
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I was there much more often than most think. Not seeing me doesn't mean I wasn't there ;)
And then you wonder why we are where we are? Simply because even "requlars" go to undercover accounts and actually "see how new players are treated" without first knowing the f**king server itself and how we have been working in here... Then you rape F8, report us to community leaders and then come on forums with happyface and basically say "YOU GOT WHAT YOU DESERVE" when you yourself do the f**king Salmonella and spectate one player for 4 hours and report him for EVERY shit he does on the server....
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if you go in the server take a dump in vcpd hq and leave ye nobody will notice :P
This is the last time I will ask. Will you please stop flaming and get back on topic?
And then you wonder why we are where we are? Simply because even requlars go to undercover accounts and actually "see how new players are treated" without first knowing the f**king server itself and how we have been working in here... Then you rape F8, report us to community leaders and then come on forums with happyface and basically say "YOU GOT WHAT YOU DESERVE" when you yourself do the f**king Salmonella and spectate one player for 4 hours and report him for EVERY shit he does on the server....
Wow, hold on a second, I never said I was undercover, and keep the personal issues with Salmonella out of here. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean you should flame him in your response. We are just discussing a touchy subject. No need to become hostile.
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This is the last time I will ask. Will you please stop flaming and get back on topic?
Wow, hold on a second, I never said I was undercover, and keep the personal issues with Salmonella out of here. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean you should flame him in your response. We are just discussing a touchy subject. No need to become hostile.
If you consider that as a flame, then you obviously do NOT know what flaming is... :D
My grudge against Salmonella has nothing to do with this, I used him as one example of many others.
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oke lets sort things out:
1st. you are ruining most players VCMP experience right now!
2nd because of that we dont like you.
3rd and because we dont like u we want you to shut up and gtfo (<-- no flame its expression)
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If you consider that as a flame, then you obviously do NOT know what flaming is... :D
My grudge against Salmonella has nothing to do with this, I used him as one example of many others.
It was an obvious attack against him and other players that have done what you have described. Let's keep this civil man. No need to make it personal. This is just a topic we are talking about. We both need to cool it down a bit.
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It was an obvious attack against him and other players that have done what you have described. Let's keep this civil man. No need to make it personal. This is just a topic we are talking about. We both need to cool it down a bit.
It's not a direct "offense" it's stating the fact of what they have done to direct the situation to where we are sitting now. Three I'd consider important requlars banned and the one who basically ran the server for three years now demoted due to those known players sitting in spect watching they're EVERY move without even spawning..
What ruins the server atmosphere more than that?
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Every word we say and/or develop seems to offend you. For example, 'Boon' Is not supposed to be an offensive word, but you still find it offensive. You're not helping the current situation, VCMP-ers want Klaus back as a manager, Just because you stepped in the server for a week doesn't mean you can go around changing everything.
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Jason, I know how your feeling but your just feeding them more reasons to complain. To be honest I feel deep down SugarD knows that his opinions are not favored, yet he is welcome to comment as much as he likes.
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At this point I'd just recommend a topic lock. The users that people want back know they have to prove their points to the Server Owners to get back, so lets leave them to do that how they want and continue to show support in other ways. This topic is becoming an argument over things and we need to unite to end the fighting and bring VC:MP back to glory. Let's just ditch this topic for the time being and go have some fun in-game, shall we? :)
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At this point I'd just recommend a topic lock. The users that people want back know they have to prove their points to the Server Owners to get back, so lets leave them to do that how they want and continue to show support in other ways. This topic is becoming an argument over things and we need to unite to end the fighting and bring VC:MP back to glory. Let's just ditch this topic for the time being and go have some fun in-game, shall we? :)
Unite... I'd say VCMP has the closest requlars out of all, we ARE united and are fighting for the best of the server... It's some whom only come to server to report others...
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Unite... I'd say VCMP has the closest requlars out of all, we ARE united and are fighting for the best of the server... It's some whom only come to server to report others...
What I mean by unite is gather together and get the server back on it's feet, whether that be with or without those in question. The server shouldn't just rely on it's leadership. It should be self-sustainable by it's users as well, (hence why those users later become the ones that lead it). :)
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what kessu said! and there is no fun when there is a tensed atmosphere which makes you anxious.
oh yeah we are united we are willing to get the server back to his roots
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oh yeah we are united we are willing to get the server back to his roots
In that case, in the mean time while we wait upon the Server Owner's final judgement on the users in question, we should continue to work towards it without them. If they are re-added, then more the reason for us to give them something to come back to that they can be proud of. If they aren't, at least the server can reach some sort of stability until someone else takes their place.
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hhmm i suddenly thought, when i came on this server 2 months ago
i was caught by perry ave and muzdaaz who taught me and my friend the basics of this server! so they are not so bad, so now muzdaaz is catching up the noobie, rapture caught one, so my point is that the server is not as f'ed as you think it is.
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what kessu said! and there is no fun when there is a tensed atmosphere which makes you anxious.
oh yeah we are united we are willing to get the server back to his roots
Agreed..
Server has been depending on Klaus since 2008... Now without him in charge, well, you saw what happened. Server was down for half of the days because of an simple reason; There is no other who has the patience and loaylty to do what Klaus has been doing..
And do you see what your going towards Sugar? You atm sound as cold hearted as you can, only because some people don't know that we love each others in here... It cannot be described with words what kind of friendships I have created in the past three and half years and I wouldn't like to raise myself, but I consider myself one hell of an important piece of VCMP history, when I do get banned, you only won't lose a reqular, but a friend and piece of server's history..
To Jason, when you first joined with Dylan (the very first time) it was me and Rapture who showed you how we work in here, remember? ;)
We shot you due to whispering infront of us making us suspicious about your actions :lol:
Too bad I wasn't teaching you everything I know.. :)
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Kessu, I never said losing a player was a good thing, nor did I say people didn't love each other in VC:MP. Just like with every Argo server, there are "clicks" of friends that stay together. It's a given in life. People are attracted to those like themselves that they share common ideas with. I never said I agreed nor disagreed with the punishments. I have nothing against those in question as people, I'm sure they are great guys. My discussion is relative to Argo itself.
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To Jason, when you first joined with Dylan (the very first time) it was me and Rapture who showed you how we work in here, remember? ;)
We shot you due to whispering infront of us making us suspicious about your actions :lol:
Too bad I wasn't teaching you everything I know.. :)
cool! i forgot about that! it was muz who taught me the basic fightning techniques and explained me about EAF and such. but i can remember u shot me haha u was whispering with rapture
so i told dylan over Skype : hey lets whisper so that we look interesting too :P
it costed me my head haha
well thanks for the basic learning and teaching my teeth how to fly haha !
Post Merge: August 09, 2011, 02:46:01 am
about that 'clicks' there are really none there is basicly a 'click' everyone can be in here if you prove you are friendly or funny or other things
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cool! i forgot about that! it was muz who taught me the basic fightning techniques and explained me about EAF and such. but i can remember u shot me haha u was whispering with rapture
so i told dylan over Skype : hey lets whisper so that we look interesting too :P
it costed me my head haha
well thanks for the basic learning and teaching my teeth how to fly haha !
It was Rapture shooting you and me shooting Dylan, clean headshots with M4 :lol:
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Good ol' times,eh?
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yes i hope those good old times come back! if nobody try to rig it *cough*SugarD*cough*
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M4 is b00n
M60 is pro
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M4 is b00n
M60 is pro
u b00n :rofl:
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stop flaming ahahahahaha
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My grudge against Salmonella has nothing to do with this, I used him as one example of many others.
Who the F are you and why do you hold ''grudges'' against me. I think i vageuly remember you from 2008 but apart from that....? Who are you to judge me and who are you to accuse me of that which i have NEVER done in the server. I have never been spectating anyone AT ALL in VCMP. When I came to VCMP months ago I did indeed want to change things. I did indeed make screenshots of rulebreaking when I saw it. But no, I did not ''search'' for rulebreaking. I was never there to prevent anything from happening and neither was i anywhere to STOP anything from happening. I was merely observing whilst I tried, and yes I say tried, because I rarely succeeded ; to enjoy the server.
Don't accuse me anything without knowing anything about either me or the subject. And about the subject fifty percent of the replying party in this topic, lacks information and knowledge. Either that, or certain people are very simply pretending to not know what really happened.
I have stated my point in these forums dedicated to the VC:MP community of Argonath many times but I shall do so once again because of the rumouring going on about the server, the community and myself. The last one in particular has led me to summon myself once again.
I wont bore you with some kind of story starting with ''When I joined VCMP......'' because that's pretty much a predictable, known and similair to many other stories-story.. Instead, I will start by telling you how it was when I rejoined..
When I rejoined VC:MP to catch up with old friends, get some rest and just in general enjoy Vice City again, I did find myself in an awkward world. This was no longer the world of its own, Argonath, as I remembered it when I departed. There was barely any friendship as some of you attempt to imply. There was discrimination, dividing, but more-over, there was anarchy. An anarchy which had teared this server apart. A dividing which had completely divided the VC:MP server from what it once was a part of, Argonath. And at last, discrimination, the discrimination against ''SA:MPers''.
To continue with the last one ; Argonath is supposed to be ONE, STRONG, COMMUNITY and should never be divided into pieces having nothing to do with eachother. I myself enjoy playing on a lot of servers in Argonath, SA:MP, VC:MP ( now, yes ), IV:MP, MTA:VC ( sometimes, barely ). Simply because it's Argonath. If it wasn't for Argonath I would probably not even use my GTA:VC, GTA:SA or GTA:IV discs anymore at all. I'm not playing that game, I am playing Argonath. VC:MP was for a long time, 2009 untill the recent light coming back to VC:MP, not a part of Argonath which accepted people from other parts of Argonath, in specific SA:MP. Not only would there be such discrimination against the people from SA:MP but the vision of Argonath, which once was present in VC:MP was no longer there.
Even right in this topic we can see some parts of the discrimination I am speaking of. Just look at how some people speak of others as if they are better. ''You haven't played for over weeks'', ''you're not active, so go away from this topic''. As if not being able to play for a period of time revokes people from having their freedom of speech, opinions and ways of thinking and expressing themselfs.. It is a very clear form of discrimination. The plain hatred which can also be looked uppon at as discrimination, is one reason why the VC:MP server had come to the point out of which I speak : Chaos.
To my next point, the dividing. The ''dividing'' as I find it appropiate to call it, is another reason why this server did no longer fulfill the original Argonath vision. This point has two meanings or points. First of all, thanks to the discrimination which i previously discussed, the VC:MP server had divided itself from other parts of Argonath. Something like that just isn't right and I am very happy that people from the other parts of Argonath are paying more attention to the VC:MP server now ( this includes the owners ) and are assuring it wont fall back to a previous state.
The other meaning of the dividing is the way the server itself was divided into two kinds of people and were basically enemies. ''Cops 'n robbers'', thats what it was. There was hardly any roleplay between criminals and cops if any. During my short stay in the past months of 2011 I haven't encountered any decent way of roleplay between criminals and cops. At first I intended on becoming a criminal. I had sticked to people from [EAF] for a few weeks, basically doing the same thing over and over again. Getting and selling diamonds for money, talking with eachother and shooting cops without actually making any contact.
At that point I found myself in a state of mind where I no longer wanted to play VC:MP.. But good friends kept me there and a week after that previous state of mind I was back. This time I just wanted to roleplay a citizen, but that offered no satisfaction whatsoever because the server simply didn't offer anything for a mere citizen not involving himself into either law or criminal activities. So this time I decided I'd rejoin to VC:PD. After I rejoined the VC:PD I found myself on the other side of the server. It was also a very boring experience typing !sur and shooting / getting shot all day, Almost as boring as doing it on the other side, only this time, I didn't start the shoot-out.
Again, I couldn't be arsed to actually continue this way so I decided it was time for a change. I did indeed gather evidence of what was going on and I did indeed notice that it NEVER came from the ''cop side'' of the server. At that point I realized that there wasn't any possibility of satisfying roleplay with everyone in the server, so i started, trying to bring it back.
I had many support from people inside the VC:PD and I also had many criminals being against me. Automatically I was being put under a label by some people in the server. A label which says ''cop''. The dividing had once again proven istelf to exist. So when I was attempting to play with some friends ingame I in the meanwhile did indeed gather evidence and outside of the server I did have many talks with owners and many others. Supporters, helpers, people with interest, etc..
I did investigate how it could come to this and I have many theories which all lead to one thing. Anarchy. ''A social state characterized by a lack of a state or libertarianism.'' . I do not often bring political stuff into Argonath but Anarchy is the most simple way to describe what was going on in the VC:MP community and apperentally also in parts of the administration. It had abandoned its original vision.
Now I won't but more-over can't go any furthur because then I would be urged and forced to bring up names of people. That's one thing I won't do after what allready happened recently
In conclusion, Ever since the recent attention the server has been getting from the owners, the original Argonath vision is slowly returning and there is no longer a certain ''chaos'' of which i spoke earlier.. Some may say they want those who were removed / banned back to the community, but the owners' decisions are decisions which I personally and many others did fully agree on and strived to get for a long time. It is better this way and even although some in this topic believe their friends should be re-introduced to their previous positions / the server... It would not be appropiate and by far not be a ''solution'' to a ''problem'' some see, called peace. I would advice those just to become friends with others and not start unneeded bickering.
For the replies / gypsy thing / provoking
It is very clear that some people ( last 6 replies ) are simply trying to look for flamewars and unneeded discussions : You'll only get yourself in trouble. The people you're trying to attack are more mature and won't allow your provoking to become a flamewar.
Trying to defend the term gypsy is just another excuse to provoke those who realize it is a racial and discriminative word. Want to call eachother something ''funny''? sure, but keep it within the server rules. Avoid racism, provocation and discrimination with the next word please. Besides, If someone asks you not to call people gypsies, then why continue? provocation.
Peace. I hope it wont be screwed up again
-Salmonella
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if you mean no fun with the 'argonath vision' then i will find another hobby.
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if you mean no fun with the 'argonath vision' then i will find another hobby.
No need to reply if you're going to act ignorant next time.
What i mean is friendship, fun, RP, etc... I don't see why you're saying that's ''not fun''. I mean, if you don't like friendship, fun and RP you should just join another server where you may find your ''fun'' which I assume involves loads of weapons, or not?
If you do like the Argonath vision, then I would love for you to stay and even would want to be your friend.
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Look, that vision we had but the thing you are talking about is making fun of eachoter gangwars or someone who gets wanted and in no time all his friends are helpinh him (that is ur cops n robbers) thing. And yes i made a lot of friends here! And the most important thing is respect! Everyone has respect for eachother but they express it a little weird sometimes. Ofcourse there are people who i dont like and ill let them know that. But im not going to call them ugly piecr of motherfucking trash or something.
Thats it
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Thank you for your post Salmonella. Now going back to the point this topic was created, we, the VCMP players would like what we have already asked for in previous posts. I hope the owners can understand.
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1. It has NEVER been allowed to break our basic community rules, in ANY situations. I do not freaking care whether you were trying to have little fun on your "own" server with the name "Argonath". You want to break our basic rules to hav fun? You do not f**king belong here.
2. I already warned people from VC:MP for these rulebreaks, and no one took them seriously, just because I was not an owner. So, dont f**king try to say you never got a chance to learn our simplest rules.
3. I personally prefer VC:MP to die without those people who refuse to follow the rules, as they ruin the reputation of the name "Argonath". If you cannot change even after the owners' direct words given to you, leave our community.
4. Several comments posted here already indicate no remorse whatsoever. Tell me why the heck we should give you another chance when you show such a shitty attitude.
Rules are made to follow, not to break. If you cannot take this sentence into your mind, once, again, I suggest you to look for another server.
Topic locked to prevent further arguments.
Boromir