Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Stefanrsb on October 29, 2011, 08:44:58 pm
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I was looking the way to sell my :weed: not by driving on the streets and asking everyone "Wanna buy some weed?" - Which is pretty much annoying to everyone.
So i did this:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/dfuzb.png)
And after i did that,this happened:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/nlwlqp.png)
So now i want to know,is this really illegal? Becouse maybe if i WAS selling the grass for yards and stadiums with bit of RolePlay,what would happen than?
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As stated MANY times before, it is still illegal if you are using such advertisements to hide what you are really trying to sell, as JDC calls them, "Ninja Advertisements". Now, if you tell admins that your advertisement is really about what it says, don't complain if you get a ban if they find out that you were really buying or selling drugs.
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You should try using something that's not as obvious as that.
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The advertisement doesn't look illegal to me...if I saw it IRL I'd be like "Yeah, cool story"...not like "OMG, I'm gonna go buy weed off him" :roll:
I've always argued that the Law Enforcement agencies should deal with illegal advertisements...not administrators. However, its a delicate discussion...if the advert looks legal, then some could say it is irrelevant whether or not you are actually selling weed, as it isn't shown as an illegal advertisement. :neutral:
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You should try using something that's not as obvious as that.
This is the point. If it's this obvious, then it's obvious to admins too. If you are so clever with your ads that the admins don't notice, you'll be fine. But if we know, we'll put a stop to it. You're probably better off roughing it out on the streets amongst the other crooks and villains.
I've always argued that the Law Enforcement agencies should deal with illegal advertisements...not administrators.
I agree with that, but it has been tried and general chat was spammed to hell and back and that was the end of that.
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As stated MANY times before, it is still illegal if you are using such advertisements to hide what you are really trying to sell, as JDC calls them, "Ninja Advertisements". Now, if you tell admins that your advertisement is really about what it says, don't complain if you get a ban if they find out that you were really buying or selling drugs.
No,i was selling weed,but maybe someone other selled the real grass..
The advertisement doesn't look illegal to me...if I saw it IRL I'd be like "Yeah, cool story"...not like "OMG, I'm gonna go buy weed off him" :roll:
Exactly.
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I agree with that, but it has been tried and general chat was spammed to hell and back and that was the end of that.
Admins can be stricter about the spamming, or add a time between each advertisement you made... That way, cops have more action, and criminals have it easier.
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Admins can be stricter about the spamming, or add a time between each advertisement you made... That way, cops have more action, and criminals have it easier.
Admins have enough to contend with as it is, the cops already have plenty of action, and the criminal way of life should not necessarily be easier; risk/reward.
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When you are posting an advertisement that is illegal, you are going in at a big risk, since that can be redirected to the FBI, and more and more illegal stuff can add up, and really get you into a lot of trouble.
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Aragorn said that
As a non roleplay stuff it can be warned by admin...
So what I understood from that post is that if you type "/ad selling weed", it's against the rules.
If you disguise it, it's legal.
However, it must not be too obvious.
It's untrue that if admins notice it at all, they punish. They only punish if it's too obvious.
If you disguise it cleverly and roleplay-like, creating some nice opportunities, it's allowed even if admins realise it's a drug deal.
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Well, the point is like this.
Take the /ad commands as a newspaper.
Do you see ''[man] selling drugs, contact [phonenumber]'' in the newspaper in your country? I don't see it in Sweden atleast.
Drugs should be sold and advertised on the streets, work your way up on the streets and you'll get calls as soon as you getting online.
All about creativity.
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maybe if i WAS selling the grass for yards and stadiums with bit of RolePlay,what would happen than?
You can see people IRL buying and selling grass for the yards,stadiums etc. Do they go to police for that? (Or get kicked?) You cant kick me for roleplay. :poke:
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One question:Do battle ask you whether you're selling real "Grass" or garden grass?
From the advertisement,it shows clearly that it is for stadium which is in common sense it is for gardening(From the meaning of the ad itself)
If battle hasn't ask anything,I'll say by benefit of doubt,you have not break any rules by just advertiseing selling grass for garden.
Post Merge: October 30, 2011, 09:33:27 am
Do you see ''[man] selling drugs, contact [phonenumber]'' in the newspaper in your country? I don't see it in Sweden atleast.
What is illegal ads?
E.g.
Hiring killer to kill some ppl
Selling weed
selling guns
All of them clearly shows it is illegal ad,no doubt.
however,his advertisement stated He is just selling grass for stadium..which is not illegal
Do you see there're advertisement about relaying the pitch service for football court and gardens and parks in your country?
Whether people will relate it to drug or not is another story,whether he is selling drug or not is another story
but the /ad itself is legal in all circumstances.
whether the seller is selling something supicious,it is police matter,but not administrative matter.
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When rule breaking is this obvious, admins do not need to ask and if they did ask about such things I would question their ability to be an admin.
Regarding illegal ads being a police matter and not an administrative matter, just read the earlier threads and you will see that has been addressed.
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When rule breaking is this obvious, admins do not need to ask and if they did ask about such things I would question their ability to be an admin.
How is advertising grass for stadium relaying and gardening illegal?
From Hess..One of the Argonath team scripter/admin have replied this on topic
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=73047.15 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=73047.15)
"Firstly, doing "/ad BUYING SUGAR" is not at all an illegal ad. Sure, it could lead to an illegal trade but the advertisement itself is not illegal. I don't mind seeing ads such as "buying sugar" or "buying grass", and I honestly don't see why it should be disallowed... people are simply hiding the fact that what they are doing is illegal, and that in itself is what I'd consider to be part of roleplay. If the police are suspicious of an ad like that, they can go investigate. What's the problem?
Secondly, do you honestly think when people do these ads that they are trying to be a "smartass" and "cheat" on admins? That is the main part I disagreed with...
IMO, there is nothing wrong with doing such ads, and they should not be considered as "illegal" if they are hidden by a "legal" ad."
So....would you mind defining what means "illegal ads"?
Or we should not have words like "Grass,sugar" in ad?
One more question..we know /ad selling gun is illegal...it's common sense
However, is /ad Selling gun shop at Market considered as illegal? as it will be "related" to illegal guns deal but selling a bizz itself is not illegal.
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I agree with Chaska...
The current rule is: No illegal advertisements. This means that an advertisement about grass for a yard is a perfectly suitable for use in /ad. Unless...the rule is changed so it specifies that any advertisement made with the intent of selling illegal substances is not allowed, as selling grass for a yard isn't illegal in itself, only the intent.
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Regarding illegal ads being a police matter and not an administrative matter, just read the earlier threads and you will see that has been addressed.
Sorry to bust your dream,the concept of "illegal /ad" is rather obscure.
Is /ad destruction derby events considered as illegal? As Car hitting in public place is illegal.
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Sorry to bust your dream,the concept of "illegal /ad" is rather obscure.
Is /ad destruction derby events considered as illegal? As Car hitting in public place is illegal.
^
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I don't know how else to say this; making an ad selling 'grass for a stadium' is obviously selling drugs. Some things are obvious, such as a person joining a game, spending their start-up money on shotguns then going on a rampage is obviously deathmatching. We don't need proof of intent, our eyes and brains work well enough to make this kind of determination.
Regarding Hess' statement, what has that got to do with anything? That is just a person with an opinion, if Gandalf or Ron had said it you would have a point and we may have to reconsider this rule. This is a SA:MP rule and Hess has no position within SA:MP, if MTA:VC wants to allow illegal ads that is up to them to decide.
To answer your questions, an illegal ad is an ad selling conventionally illegal items that can be physically sold in the game such as heroin, weed or weapons.
You do have a good question about whether or not a legal Ammunation owner can use /ad to sell weapons. My view is that there should be one rule for everyone; as it happens the rules are currently under discussion and this one will be pinned down in due course.
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My suggestion about the intent to sell illegal substances still stands :D
And of course a legal ammunation owner can use /ad...as long as he specifies it his ammunation, and not him personally!
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I agree with ChasKa and the post from Hess.
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No, It may not be illegal as well as it maybe, to be more specific, in Gandalf's own words I read in one of the topics where the owners answer, he said giving the example of microsoft 'selling ''stuff'' for more information, contact Microsoft.' There's nothing wrong with it, since nobody knows whats advertised.
Yes, JDC calls them ninja ads tho, but again, yours was too specific, there was this person a few days ago who was advertising that he's buying milk, when he was buying heroin, and no admin had any problems with those ads.
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Hess posted? Whats the forum name?
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Sorry to bust your dream,the concept of "illegal /ad" is rather obscure. Is /ad destruction derby events considered as illegal? As Car hitting in public place is illegal.
Ok, so we have to do the thinking for you. That's ok, we'll make that nice and simple for you when we re-visit the rules.
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Hess posted? Whats the forum name?
Was talking about this
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=73047.15 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=73047.15)
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I don't know how else to say this; making an ad selling 'grass for a stadium' is obviously selling drugs.
The intention of /ad maybe illegal...but the /ad itself is legal although people will relate it to illegal items.
Regarding Hess' statement, what has that got to do with anything? That is just a person with an opinion, if Gandalf or Ron had said it you would have a point and we may have to reconsider this rule. This is a SA:MP rule and Hess has no position within SA:MP, if MTA:VC wants to allow illegal ads that is up to them to decide.
As a community team,he was proven to hold great stance on argonath vision which means his word have worth quoting in some circumstances
To answer your questions, an illegal ad is an ad selling conventionally illegal items that can be physically sold in the game such as heroin, weed or weapons.
You do have a good question about whether or not a legal Ammunation owner can use /ad to sell weapons. My view is that there should be one rule for everyone; as it happens the rules are currently under discussion and this one will be pinned down in due course.
First,thanks for considering and a further disscussion among the HQ,Appreciated.
is /ad hiring killer to kill some people ilegal?
is /ad Destruction derby illegal?
is /ad Royal rumble/last one to stand on the ground event illegal?
Post Merge: October 30, 2011, 01:39:05 pm
Ok, so we have to do the thinking for you. That's ok, we'll make that nice and simple for you when we re-visit the rules.
Sorry, I ask the "naive" question because I wanna hold some event later..I'll not risking myself being punished...My intention is not to challenge just wanna make something clear for me or others
My question is just simple..is /ad Destruction derby illegal?
Yes or No?
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/ad Selling merchandises at XX location at XX time. Solved.
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/ad Selling merchandises at XX location at XX time. Solved.
Good suggestion but sorry to interrupt here...it is better than grass for stadium..but I'll say I'll also relate your statement to something physically buyable illegal item e.g Drug or guns imo.
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If I had the time or the inclination I could answer each and every question, which would no doubt lead to more questions. This is the rule as it stands, it may or may not be changed in the future. If you want to make an actual suggestion about how to improve this rule it will be taken under advisement, but your personal preference that it shouldn't exist isn't going to cut it.
Unless...the rule is changed so it specifies that any advertisement made with the intent of selling illegal substances is not allowed, as selling grass for a yard isn't illegal in itself, only the intent.
Sadly, this may have to be done. Noted.
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I hate it when I'm actually selling tea and admins kick me for illegal /ad.
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I don't know how else to say this; making an ad selling 'grass for a stadium' is obviously selling drugs. Some things are obvious, such as a person joining a game, spending their start-up money on shotguns then going on a rampage is obviously deathmatching. We don't need proof of intent, our eyes and brains work well enough to make this kind of determination.
God bless the administration for assuming that all players are shitty role-players and can't be selling real grass.
The obvious thing today is team's incompetence.
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God bless the administration for assuming that all players are shitty role-players and can't be selling real grass.
The obvious thing today is team's incompetence.
I don't assume that at all; but I do assume, correctly as proven by the opening post in this thread, that when someone makes an /ad for selling grass for yards and stadiums that they are in fact selling drugs.
Attempt to twist my intent all you like Mario, it won't change the simple fact that the OP attempted to break a rule and got caught and that is ultimately what all this is about.
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I don't assume that at all; but I do assume,
:war:
I don't assume that at all; but I do assume, correctly as proven by the opening post in this thread, that when someone makes an /ad for selling grass for yards and stadiums that they are in fact selling drugs.
Attempt to twist my intent all you like Mario, it won't change the simple fact that the OP attempted to break a rule and got caught and that is ultimately what all this is about.
As far as I am concerned, a proper administrator first checks whether the player is actually selling drugs or not, then takes action.
Or selling grass is rule-breaking as well?
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As far as I am concerned, a proper administrator first checks whether the player is actually selling drugs or not, then takes action.
Or selling grass is rule-breaking as well?
If you believe that admins should double check things that are clearly obvious to them then you're wrong. I'm not sure what the clipped quote and the 'war' icon are meant to signify.
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If you believe that admins should double check things that are clearly obvious to them then you're wrong. I'm not sure what the clipped quote and the 'war' icon are meant to signify.
Double check would be good, considering the fact you don't even check once. I am pretty sure all administrators don't think alike, how can you rely on something like "clearly obvious"?
If I open a business and sell grass, using the same ad Jeffrey did, will you kick me?
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Double check would be good, considering the fact you don't even check once. I am pretty sure all administrators don't think alike, how can you rely on something like "clearly obvious"?
There is a first check and that is the one done with the eyes and the brain. It may not be obvious to you that he was trying to sell drugs, but it is obvious to us. If an admin was unable to see the intent behind that particular advert then he may not be suitable for admin work, thankfully there is no one in the team who would fail to understand that.
Post Merge: October 30, 2011, 02:57:19 pm
If I open a business and sell grass, using the same ad Jeffrey did, will you kick me?
If you are legitimately role-playing an actual grass seller, my advice would be to not use /ad to promote it. Using /ad is not a necessary role-play tool and it never has been, the risk would be that a legitimate grass seller might be mistaken for a drug dealer. Ignore that advice by all means, but you may end up being kicked.
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There is a first check and that is the one done with the eyes and the brain. It may not be obvious to you that he was trying to sell drugs, but it is obvious to us. If an admin was unable to see the intent behind that particular advert then he may not be suitable for admin work, thankfully there is no one in the team who would fail to understand that.
In the world of adults, administrators rely on facts and evidence, not on what appears to be "obvious" or not.
And then you people wonder why you have to open business support funds to pay players to RP. :rules:
Post Merge: October 30, 2011, 03:04:54 pm
If you are legitimately role-playing an actual grass seller, my advice would be to not use /ad to promote it. Using /ad is not a necessary role-play tool and it never has been, the risk would be that a legitimate grass seller might be mistaken for a drug dealer. Ignore that advice by all means, but you may end up being kicked.
/ad is for announcements, group announcements (clans), party announcements, business announcements (changed, looking for), business sells/buys, cars looking for and sells/buys, jobs announcements, and all other stuff that can be found in newspaper...
Chatting and illegal business is not allowed...
Illegal stuff can be found on the streets or through pirate radio stations (channels)...
So why do we end up kicked for what's legal, but administrators consider to be illegal?
Whose fault is it?
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In the world of adults, administrators rely on facts and evidence, not on what appears to be "obvious" or not.
And then you people wonder why you have to open business support funds to pay players to RP. :rules:
What an admin sees with his eyes and processes with his brain is evidence, or were you thinking there is some log somewhere that lists people's intent?
Actually I don't wonder about business support funds, you do. I see a sandbox game that is community driven, therefore if a business support fund develops that is just the nature of creating a free role-play environment.
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What an admin sees with his eyes and processes with his brain is evidence, or were you thinking there is some log somewhere that lists people's intent?
So there is no need to actually check whether the person is selling drugs or not?
Actually I don't wonder about business support funds, you do. I see a sandbox game that is community driven, therefore if a business support fund develops that is just the nature of creating a free role-play environment.
Kicking role-players is an interesting way of creating a free role-play environment. Perhaps, a more suitable definition is "free of role-play" environment. : )
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why do we end up kicked for what's legal, but administrators consider to be illegal?
Whose fault is it?
Yours. If you decide to create a role-play scenario that is intended to appear to be against the rules, but actually isn't, then it is your fault if an admin makes the mistake that you intended to invoke.
So there is no need to actually check whether the person is selling drugs or not?
They have checked, by seeing it with their own eyes.
Kicking role-players is an interesting way of creating a free role-play environment. Perhaps, a more suitable definition is "free of role-play" environment. : )
Kicking some players needs to be done to maintain a free role-play environment where rule-abiding players can play in peace. This is precisely the nature of this particular rule, as it is the nature of most of our rules.
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Yours. If you decide to create a role-play scenario that is intended to appear to be against the rules, but actually isn't, then it is your fault if an admin makes the mistake that you intended to invoke.
No, it's not intended to appear to be against the rules. It's your, quote, "eyes and the brain", who label the ad as illegal. It's not out fault admins make mistakes when it comes to such simple situations.
They have checked, by seeing it with their own eyes.
Kicking before the brain understands what the eyes saw. Without spectating the player. Not checking what the player's actually doing.
Kicking some players needs to be done to maintain a free role-play environment where rule-abiding players can play in peace. This is precisely the nature of this particular rule, as it is the nature of most of our rules.
How can rule-abiding players play in peace, when they're the ones you like to kick?
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What an admin sees with his eyes and processes with his brain is evidence
Ok,it's clear now...I'm done discussing.
HOwever,one last time,I will remind you that it's all about personal perferences of admins but not us,players.
No matter how the intention is,the /ad is not illegal itself,that's nothing to argue about.
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This hypothetical player who is legitimately trying to sell grass for lawns would be advised not to use /ad to promote his product. He can use /ad, but there is such a high chance that it would be mistaken for an ad for drugs that it would not be wise for him to use this method.
I didn't say that people were kicked before the brain understands what their eyes saw, you're saying that, so it seems you're making some thinly veiled criticism of the admins which as you know won't be tolerated.
I don't like to kick anyone, I have to kick those who break the rules.
No matter how the intention is,the /ad is not illegal itself,that's nothing to argue about.
That is semantics, but I will give you that one. It seems we should make the rule clearer; that is disappointing to me because everyone knows what 'illegal ad' means but if it needs further clarification then that will be considered.
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But ad was made to for roleplay businesses, that was the only reason it was implemented.
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This hypothetical player who is legitimately trying to sell grass for lawns would be advised not to use /ad to promote his product. He can use /ad, but there is such a high chance that it would be mistaken for an ad for drugs that it would not be wise for him to use this method.
I didn't say that people were kicked before the brain understands what their eyes saw, you're saying that, so it seems you're making some thinly veiled criticism of the admins which as you know won't be tolerated.
I don't like to kick anyone, I have to kick those who break the rules.
I am not saying admins are doing a bad job.
I am just trying to understand why you kick those who don't break the rules. Why do we even need the rules then, if you can't properly enforce them? :cop:
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I am not saying admins are doing a bad job.
I am just trying to understand why you kick those who don't break the rules. Why do we even need the rules then, if you can't properly enforce them? :cop:
We don't kick those who don't break the rules, and the rules are properly enforced. Give me some examples of people who were kicked for making 'illegal ads' when they were genuinely trying to promote a legitimate business.
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We don't kick those who don't break the rules, and the rules are properly enforced. Give me some examples of people who were kicked for making 'illegal ads' when they were genuinely trying to promote a legitimate business.
You don't have to look further than two pages back.
I hate it when I'm actually selling tea and admins kick me for illegal /ad.
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Why not just let the ''ambiguous advertisements'' be dealt with by cops?
I'm sure there will be cops looking for these potential criminals and that will give them more things to do. Not just regular police but the FBI could also spend some of their time doing it, I don't know. May be more productive than taking risks with a kick?
It's not like the current price of advertisement is very business-friendly anyway.
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I hate it when I'm actually selling tea and admins kick me for illegal /ad.
This player has never been kicked, or any other action taken against him, for making illegal ads.
Even if he had been, there is no confirmation that he was in fact selling tea so his statement can hardly be used as an example.
Why not just let the ''ambiguous advertisements'' be dealt with by cops?
This has already been asked and answered, it was tried but general chat became inundated with ads for drugs and guns to the point that it disrupted any other conversation.
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This player has never been kicked, or any other action taken against him, for making illegal ads.
Even if he had been, there is no confirmation that he was in fact selling tea so his statement can hardly be used as an example.
And there is usually no confirmation that people are in fact selling drugs, yet they get kicked. :rules:
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Admins make decisions based on what they see; there is only one case that any of this is relevant to and that is the one made by the OP and in this case it is confirmed that he was trying to circumvent the rules. I have seen many examples of people getting kicked when they were trying to circumvent the rules, but I have not seen any cases where someone was wrongly kicked for the same reasons.
The only kicks I have seen for making illegal ads are ones where the player was clearly trying to break the rules but got caught, if you are aware of clear cases where a player genuinely trying to promote a legitimate business has been kicked for making illegal ads then show me examples and if the admin in question was wrong I will follow it up.
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Admins make decisions based on what they see; there is only one case that any of this is relevant to and that is the one made by the OP and in this case it is confirmed that he was trying to circumvent the rules. I have seen many examples of people getting kicked when they were trying to circumvent the rules, but I have not seen any cases where someone was wrongly kicked for the same reasons.
The only kicks I have seen for making illegal ads are ones where the player was clearly trying to break the rules but got caught, if you are aware of clear cases where a player genuinely trying to promote a legitimate business has been kicked for making illegal ads then show me examples and if the admin in question was wrong I will follow it up.
While I don't have the time to sit in front of a PC 24/7 and record all kicks for said reason, I suggest you conduct a research and analyse the logs. Then we will have a better understanding of what is going on. :)
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While I don't have the time to sit in front of a PC 24/7 and record all kicks for said reason, I suggest you conduct a research and analyse the logs. Then we will have a better understanding of what is going on. :)
I don't need to, I see all the actions that the admins take and I am satisfied that no one is being unfairly kicked for making illegal ads. In addition we receive complaints from time to time about admins and amongst those complaints I have never seen one that is about being kicked unfairly for making illegal ads.
You're the one who is arguing against the rule so you come up with something to persuade me that there is a problem with it.
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The thing is, some admins jump to conclusions about some advertisements being illegal, they should wait and investigate it before giving out a punishment.
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The thing is, some admins jump to conclusions about some advertisements being illegal, they should wait and investigate it before giving out a punishment.
Pretty much what I am trying to tell you, Kojak.
You're the one who is arguing against the rule so you come up with something to persuade me that there is a problem with it.
It's not the rule, it's the way it is enforced.
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The thing is, some admins jump to conclusions about some advertisements being illegal, they should wait and investigate it before giving out a punishment.
They do jump to conclusions, and in my experience they jump to the correct one. If the ad is ambiguous enough, there is nothing to investigate because they won't kick for that. But if it is obvious, again there is nothing to investigate because it's obvious.
It's not the rule, it's the way it is enforced.
There is nothing wrong with the way it is being enforced, like I have said I have not seen one example of a person being wrongly kicked for this and seemingly neither have you. There is no log that can prove intent, so our admins use their common sense and intelligence which is an attribute they all share.
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They do jump to conclusions, and in my experience they jump to the correct one. If the ad is ambiguous enough, there is nothing to investigate because they won't kick for that. But if it is obvious, again there is nothing to investigate because it's obvious.
Okay, let's use the example Truth pointed out. If you are REALLY selling some damn tea, and I would think Truth is selling tea because he owns a farm, and he just follows his own roleplay. Well, if an admin just assumes that he is selling weed and punishes him, the rule isn't supposed to be enforced like that. Administrators can wait for some time, and see if the player is really selling tea, or if he is actually buying drugs. And then, they can enforce the rule.
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Okay, let's use the example Truth pointed out. If you are REALLY selling some damn tea, and I would think Truth is selling tea because he owns a farm, and he just follows his own roleplay. Well, if an admin just assumes that he is selling weed and punishes him, the rule isn't supposed to be enforced like that. Administrators can wait for some time, and see if the player is really selling tea, or if he is actually buying drugs. And then, they can enforce the rule.
But no action has ever been taken against Truth for making illegal ads, despite what he says, so clearly the way the rules are enforced works fine. The right people are getting kicked, and no one is being kicked wrongly.
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But no action has ever been taken against Truth for making illegal ads, despite what he says, so clearly the way the rules are enforced works fine. The right people are getting kicked, and no one is being kicked wrongly.
And how do you actually know that? Administrators are not psychics...
Edit: And by the administrators actually taking time to do this, they should be more strict on the punishments, depending on it it's a new player, regular or a veteran.
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And how do you actually know that? Administrators are not psychics...
I don't need to be psychic when I have logs.
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I don't need to be psychic when I have logs.
Are you implying that the logs are checked everytime a player is being kicked for illegal advertisements or when such an advertisement is made?
Also, logs don't save a head of time. Admins tend to enforce the rule seconds after such an advertisement is made...
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Are you implying that the logs are checked everytime a player is being kicked for illegal advertisements or when such an advertisement is made?
No, I have checked the logs for actions taken against Truth and his statement is incorrect. I see people being kicked correctly for misusing /ad and I don't see anyone being kicked incorrectly for misusing /ad. Clearly in certain people's opinions this is such a major problem that it requires a five page discussion and urgent intervention, so if this problem is so prevalent it should be easy to show me examples of people being kicked wrongly.
Also, logs don't check a head of time. Admins tend to enforce the rule seconds after such an advertisement is made...
As opposed to what, waiting half an hour? If it's obvious it's obvious, why delay?
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As a non roleplay stuff it can be warned by admin...
That is what Aragorn said. ^
Tell me Kojak, what do you see in that quote?
I see that illegal ads are allowed if they are disguised as legal ones, even if they are so obvious administrators are able to notice.
/ad SELLING WEED - Admin Punishable
/ad Green Tea for sale, straight from China! - Allowed, and can be investigated by cops if it is suspected to be a drug ad.
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I see that illegal ads are allowed if they are disguised as legal ones, even if they are so obvious administrators are able to notice.
/ad SELLING WEED - Admin Punishable
/ad Green Tea for sale, straight from China! - Allowed, and can be investigated by cops if it is suspected to be a drug ad.
You're making the mistake of using the literal word of the rule while ignoring the spirit of the rule. The rule is not there to prevent role-play, it is there to prevent spam. If we disallow illegal ads but allow disguised illegal ads then we will have the same problem as before; instead of too many ads for 'selling drugs' we'll have too many ads for 'selling grass for your lawn'
The guidance that has been given is that if you're a drug dealer, use underground means to promote your business. Make contacts on the street and use local chat and cb radios. Do not promote drugs using /ad regardless of whether the ad is explicit or disguised.
However, there have been occasions where a player has made an ad that I have suspected might be about drugs, but it is so cleverly disguised that it was not obvious. In all those occasions the player was not kicked.
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One question:Do battle ask you whether you're selling real "Grass" or garden grass?
From the advertisement,it shows clearly that it is for stadium which is in common sense it is for gardening(From the meaning of the ad itself)
If battle hasn't ask anything,I'll say by benefit of doubt,you have not break any rules by just advertiseing selling grass for garden.
He hasnt ask me anything.
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As opposed to what, waiting half an hour? If it's obvious it's obvious, why delay?
More like a few minutes. Drugs on the server are at a pretty high price, and people are always looking to buy or sell them. So, if there is a lot of members online, I gurantee you'd get a phone call with-in minutes between the time the advertisement was made. Patience is something an administrator needs to hold to fulfill his job correctly.
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More like a few minutes. Drugs on the server are at a pretty high price, and people are always looking to buy or sell them. So, if there is a lot of members online, I gurantee you'd get a phone call with-in minutes between the time the advertisement was made. Patience is something an administrator needs to hold to fulfill his job correctly.
You're not making any sense, why wait any amount of time if it is obvious that someone has broken a rule? This has nothing to do with patience, it is about being decisive.
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You're not making any sense, why wait any amount of time if it is obvious that someone has broken a rule? This has nothing to do with patience, it is about being decisive.
My reply was for those advertisements that are illegal, not just generally speaking.
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Dont post so fast i cant read everything :D joke.
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Stefan_9_Vrtnik, if you are so good roleplayer... why you don't start walking on the streets and selling as a drug dealer?
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Who said that im a good roleplayer? And i dont do it becouse its boring,maybe. Nice idea,maybe ill do it later.
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If an ad is so cleverly disguised, I request the player to inform me exactly what he is selling, since illegal usage of /ad is still not allowed, ninja ads or not.
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If an ad is so cleverly disguised, I request the player to inform me exactly what he is selling, since illegal usage of /ad is still not allowed, ninja ads or not.
Didn't Kojak say it was allowed if you cleverly disguised it?
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Didn't Kojak say it was allowed if you cleverly disguised it?
He said that the player wasn't kicked if the /ad disguise was so clever that Admins wouldn't be able to spot it. If you do make an ad though and I ask you what you are selling, it means the ad in question is still suspicious.
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/ad Selling Weed 3,000 grams | 45 dollars per gram! - Not roleplay advertising
/ad Selling grass or green tea or etc - Roleplay adversting
If police officers in Argonath RPG do roleplay instead pursue orange dots, they would prosecute the people who make such ads and check them. Even going to be much fun. But because at this stage it does not happen, admins do their job. On the other hand, you must be very stupid to advertise your drugs with /ad even if try to cover it in some way. However, this is a roleplay server...
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He said that the player wasn't kicked if the /ad disguise was so clever that Admins wouldn't be able to spot it. If you do make an ad though and I ask you what you are selling, it means the ad in question is still suspicious.
And if they answer drugs, are you going to punish them? Even though the ad was not only disguised but also roleplayed?
You deal with the illegal ads. Let the cops deal with the suspicious ones.
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He said that the player wasn't kicked if the /ad disguise was so clever that Admins wouldn't be able to spot it. If you do make an ad though and I ask you what you are selling, it means the ad in question is still suspicious.
One day,you fliip over the magazine and see
Green teas at Low price at ABC market,BUY ONE PACK AND ONE PACK FREE/relaying grass for stadium service
will you relate them to drug deal?
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Green teas at Low price at ABC market,BUY ONE PACK AND ONE PACK FREE/relaying grass for stadium service
will you relate them to drug deal?
I wouldn't. Though if I investigate and find out that it is indeed related to drugs, there will be punishment.
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I wouldn't. Though if I investigate and find out that it is indeed related to drugs, there will be punishment.
If you do not relate it to drug in the first impression, the ad itself means "not obvious" and can be so-called "successfully" disguised so you don't have to investigate it becasue if it even is a drug deal,it does not viloates the rules.
there have been occasions where a player has made an ad that I have suspected might be about drugs, but it is so cleverly disguised that it was not obvious. In all those occasions the player was not kicked.
To look deep,it's not difficult to find that even the admin team do not have a consensus on defining "illegal /ad"
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I wouldn't. Though if I investigate and find out that it is indeed related to drugs, there will be punishment.
According to Aragorn, you can only punish if the ad is non-roleplay.
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According to Aragorn, you can only punish if the ad is non-roleplay.
Wrong. Any advertisement that is selling illegal items will be punishable. Illegal distribution includes but not limited to weapons and drugs.
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Admins can investigate anything they like; if it's obvious then there is no need to investigate, if it's suspect they can choose to investigate.
No one has said that illegal ads that are cleverly disguised are allowed, but if they are so clever that the admins can't tell then you have effectively gotten away with breaking the rules.
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One day,you fliip over the magazine and see
Green teas at Low price at ABC market,BUY ONE PACK AND ONE PACK FREE/relaying grass for stadium service
will you relate them to drug deal?
The local magazine is not filled with people attempting to sell illegal drugs in public advertisements. RL analogies are invalid in this case.
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Wrong. Any advertisement that is selling illegal items will be punishable. Illegal distribution includes but not limited to weapons and drugs.
So Aragorn is wrong?
No one has said that illegal ads that are cleverly disguised are allowed
Correct, however Aragorn did say that "as a non roleplay stuff it can be punished".
Finding "Green Tea" in your newspaper is counted as roleplay, I believe.
Honestly, I'm really confused here and got no idea who I should believe.
Aragorn said that, you say this, things don't match up.
I wish he'd come and clarify.
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So Aragorn is wrong?
Correct, however Aragorn did say that "as a non roleplay stuff it can be punished".
Finding "Green Tea" in your newspaper is counted as roleplay, I believe.
Honestly, I'm really confused here and got no idea who I should believe.
Aragorn said that, you say this, things don't match up.
I wish he'd come and clarify.
Aragorn said that such ads can be punished by Admins for reason of being non-roleplay. However, illegal ads of any nature are also not allowed.
There is no contradiction, unless you are trying to find a way to get around our rules... which you seem to be inclined to in this topic, as seen by questioning the admin position on illegal ads and going so far as to try and point out loopholes in our work.
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So Aragorn is wrong?
Correct, however Aragorn did say that "as a non roleplay stuff it can be punished".
Finding "Green Tea" in your newspaper is counted as roleplay, I believe.
Honestly, I'm really confused here and got no idea who I should believe.
Aragorn said that, you say this, things don't match up.
I wish he'd come and clarify.
Alright, enough of this horseshit. I don't care if you choose not to believe me; it has been made clear what is not allowed, so go ahead and make all the illegal ads you like and see what happens.