Is this illegal?

[Mario_Rinna]

I don't know how else to say this; making an ad selling 'grass for a stadium' is obviously selling drugs. Some things are obvious, such as a person joining a game, spending their start-up money on shotguns then going on a rampage is obviously deathmatching. We don't need proof of intent, our eyes and brains work well enough to make this kind of determination.

God bless the administration for assuming that all players are shitty role-players and can't be selling real grass.

The obvious thing today is team's incompetence.

[Kojak]

God bless the administration for assuming that all players are shitty role-players and can't be selling real grass.

The obvious thing today is team's incompetence.

I don't assume that at all; but I do assume, correctly as proven by the opening post in this thread, that when someone makes an /ad for selling grass for yards and stadiums that they are in fact selling drugs.

Attempt to twist my intent all you like Mario, it won't change the simple fact that the OP attempted to break a rule and got caught and that is ultimately what all this is about.

[Mario_Rinna]

I don't assume that at all; but I do assume,

I don't assume that at all; but I do assume, correctly as proven by the opening post in this thread, that when someone makes an /ad for selling grass for yards and stadiums that they are in fact selling drugs.

Attempt to twist my intent all you like Mario, it won't change the simple fact that the OP attempted to break a rule and got caught and that is ultimately what all this is about.

As far as I am concerned, a proper administrator first checks whether the player is actually selling drugs or not, then takes action.

Or selling grass is rule-breaking as well?

[Kojak]

As far as I am concerned, a proper administrator first checks whether the player is actually selling drugs or not, then takes action.

Or selling grass is rule-breaking as well?

If you believe that admins should double check things that are clearly obvious to them then you're wrong. I'm not sure what the clipped quote and the 'war' icon are meant to signify.

[Mario_Rinna]

If you believe that admins should double check things that are clearly obvious to them then you're wrong. I'm not sure what the clipped quote and the 'war' icon are meant to signify.

Double check would be good, considering the fact you don't even check once. I am pretty sure all administrators don't think alike, how can you rely on something like "clearly obvious"?

If I open a business and sell grass, using the same ad Jeffrey did, will you kick me?

[Kojak]

Double check would be good, considering the fact you don't even check once. I am pretty sure all administrators don't think alike, how can you rely on something like "clearly obvious"?

There is a first check and that is the one done with the eyes and the brain. It may not be obvious to you that he was trying to sell drugs, but it is obvious to us. If an admin was unable to see the intent behind that particular advert then he may not be suitable for admin work, thankfully there is no one in the team who would fail to understand that.


Post Merge: October 30, 2011, 02:57:19 pm

If I open a business and sell grass, using the same ad Jeffrey did, will you kick me?

If you are legitimately role-playing an actual grass seller, my advice would be to not use /ad to promote it. Using /ad is not a necessary role-play tool and it never has been, the risk would be that a legitimate grass seller might be mistaken for a drug dealer. Ignore that advice by all means, but you may end up being kicked.

[Mario_Rinna]

There is a first check and that is the one done with the eyes and the brain. It may not be obvious to you that he was trying to sell drugs, but it is obvious to us. If an admin was unable to see the intent behind that particular advert then he may not be suitable for admin work, thankfully there is no one in the team who would fail to understand that.

In the world of adults, administrators rely on facts and evidence, not on what appears to be "obvious" or not.

And then you people wonder why you have to open business support funds to pay players to RP. :rules:
Post Merge: October 30, 2011, 03:04:54 pm

If you are legitimately role-playing an actual grass seller, my advice would be to not use /ad to promote it. Using /ad is not a necessary role-play tool and it never has been, the risk would be that a legitimate grass seller might be mistaken for a drug dealer. Ignore that advice by all means, but you may end up being kicked.

/ad is for announcements, group announcements (clans), party announcements, business announcements (changed, looking for), business sells/buys, cars looking for and sells/buys, jobs announcements, and all other stuff that can be found in newspaper...

Chatting and illegal business is not allowed...

Illegal stuff can be found on the streets or through pirate radio stations (channels)...

So why do we end up kicked for what's legal, but administrators consider to be illegal?

Whose fault is it?

[Kojak]

In the world of adults, administrators rely on facts and evidence, not on what appears to be "obvious" or not.

And then you people wonder why you have to open business support funds to pay players to RP. :rules:

What an admin sees with his eyes and processes with his brain is evidence, or were you thinking there is some log somewhere that lists people's intent?

Actually I don't wonder about business support funds, you do. I see a sandbox game that is community driven, therefore if a business support fund develops that is just the nature of creating a free role-play environment.

[Mario_Rinna]

What an admin sees with his eyes and processes with his brain is evidence, or were you thinking there is some log somewhere that lists people's intent?

So there is no need to actually check whether the person is selling drugs or not?

Actually I don't wonder about business support funds, you do. I see a sandbox game that is community driven, therefore if a business support fund develops that is just the nature of creating a free role-play environment.

Kicking role-players is an interesting way of creating a free role-play environment. Perhaps, a more suitable definition is "free of role-play" environment. : )

[Kojak]

why do we end up kicked for what's legal, but administrators consider to be illegal?

Whose fault is it?

Yours. If you decide to create a role-play scenario that is intended to appear to be against the rules, but actually isn't, then it is your fault if an admin makes the mistake that you intended to invoke.

So there is no need to actually check whether the person is selling drugs or not?

They have checked, by seeing it with their own eyes.

Kicking role-players is an interesting way of creating a free role-play environment. Perhaps, a more suitable definition is "free of role-play" environment. : )

Kicking some players needs to be done to maintain a free role-play environment where rule-abiding players can play in peace. This is precisely the nature of this particular rule, as it is the nature of most of our rules.

[Mario_Rinna]

Yours. If you decide to create a role-play scenario that is intended to appear to be against the rules, but actually isn't, then it is your fault if an admin makes the mistake that you intended to invoke.

No, it's not intended to appear to be against the rules. It's your, quote, "eyes and the brain", who label the ad as illegal. It's not out fault admins make mistakes when it comes to such simple situations.

They have checked, by seeing it with their own eyes.

Kicking before the brain understands what the eyes saw. Without spectating the player. Not checking what the player's actually doing.

Kicking some players needs to be done to maintain a free role-play environment where rule-abiding players can play in peace. This is precisely the nature of this particular rule, as it is the nature of most of our rules.

How can rule-abiding players play in peace, when they're the ones you like to kick?

[ChasKa]

What an admin sees with his eyes and processes with his brain is evidence

Ok,it's clear now...I'm done discussing.
HOwever,one last time,I will remind you that it's all about personal perferences of admins but not us,players.
No matter how the intention is,the /ad is not illegal itself,that's nothing to argue about.

[Kojak]

This hypothetical player who is legitimately trying to sell grass for lawns would be advised not to use /ad to promote his product. He can use /ad, but there is such a high chance that it would be mistaken for an ad for drugs that it would not be wise for him to use this method.

I didn't say that people were kicked before the brain understands what their eyes saw, you're saying that, so it seems you're making some thinly veiled criticism of the admins which as you know won't be tolerated.

I don't like to kick anyone, I have to kick those who break the rules.

No matter how the intention is,the /ad is not illegal itself,that's nothing to argue about.

That is semantics, but I will give you that one. It seems we should make the rule clearer; that is disappointing to me because everyone knows what 'illegal ad' means but if it needs further clarification then that will be considered.

[Ness]

But ad was made to for roleplay businesses, that was the only reason it was implemented.

[Mario_Rinna]

This hypothetical player who is legitimately trying to sell grass for lawns would be advised not to use /ad to promote his product. He can use /ad, but there is such a high chance that it would be mistaken for an ad for drugs that it would not be wise for him to use this method.

I didn't say that people were kicked before the brain understands what their eyes saw, you're saying that, so it seems you're making some thinly veiled criticism of the admins which as you know won't be tolerated.

I don't like to kick anyone, I have to kick those who break the rules.

I am not saying admins are doing a bad job.

I am just trying to understand why you kick those who don't break the rules. Why do we even need the rules then, if you can't properly enforce them?