POLL - AFK Firemen are an unfair advantage.

[SugarD]

ARFD is inactive and not doing anything about firemen's actions , is it because you don't have a special script?
Well you could have atleast tried to change, try to organize RPs more often because even "regulars" are not supposed to be as experienced as you are at leading people.

You are clearly making things up now.

[Benn]

Ok, so what did you do since RS5 release as ARFD Chief??

[JDC]

You completely misinterpreted what I said. I said I don't have the scripted, physical power to enforce anything other than what was stated above. That has nothing to do with my leadership skills.

To say that ARFD does not command obedience is ridiculous, as the players themselves who are in official divisions are not the ones causing these complaints to arise. They are obedient to my leadership regardless of rights, ranks, and scripted abilities because they enjoy the roleplay for the fun of it. Those who ignore me are often regular players who do it just for the money. Isn't that what is being argued here?

You are the one who is misinterpreting, as we are arguing the same thing. The premise I am arguing is the lack of control that official firemen (who form the official fire department) have over the rest, despite their higher ranks.

ARFD does not have a problem with commanding obedience from those in its own ranks. The problem is that it does not command obedience from the majority who are not.

Also, your comparison of ARFD's rights to ARPD's is null. ARPD has the ability to copban, remove scripted rights/ranks, and other powers that ARFD does not. ARPD can also severely limit a user's abilities while still allowing them to be on duty, if necessary. ARFD does not have that power. That has absolutely nothing to do with leadership.

I never said that a scripted punishment system is the only means of direct power, it is just a tool. Law enforcers mostly listen to the ARPD not because they have a scripted punishment system, but because they know that the ARPD will use whatever tools it has at its disposal to deal with them should they not. That knowledge gives it more power, or the fangs it can bare that can cause effects even before actually having to bite.

ARFD, on the other hand, does not have a widely-known reputation of cracking down on rogue firemen. The knowledge of a rogue that he will be dealt with by a body is a form of power for itself, something I hardly see on SA:MP for ARFD. Otherwise, there would be more threats (even from non-official firemen) for rogues over fire/emergency radio that the ARFD would take action on them. Perhaps that is the starting point you can use to address the problem.

Do you see the suggestion I am now hinting at here?

[Patton]

I said I don't have the scripted, physical power to enforce anything other than what was stated above.

Most group leaders don’t have the scripted power either, and they still manage to organize their groups successfully.

[Alexander_Rijav]

Either yes or no SAFD should be totaly recreated,like SAPD 

[SugarD]

You are the one who is misinterpreting, as we are arguing the same thing. The premise I am arguing is the lack of control that official firemen (who form the official fire department) have over the rest, despite their higher ranks.

ARFD does not have a problem with commanding obedience from those in its own ranks. The problem is that it does not command obedience from the majority who are not.

I never said that a scripted punishment system is the only means of direct power, it is just a tool. Law enforcers mostly listen to the ARPD not because they have a scripted punishment system, but because they know that the ARPD will use whatever tools it has at its disposal to deal with them should they not. That knowledge gives it more power, or the fangs it can bare that can cause effects even before actually having to bite.

ARFD, on the other hand, does not have a widely-known reputation of cracking down on rogue firemen. The knowledge of a rogue that he will be dealt with by a body is a form of power for itself, something I hardly see on SA:MP for ARFD. Otherwise, there would be more threats (even from non-official firemen) for rogues over fire/emergency radio that the ARFD would take action on them. Perhaps that is the starting point you can use to address the problem.

Do you see the suggestion I am now hinting at here?

You still have no idea of the situation here. Threats over the radio and such have been used before. That may work fine for ARPD against new players, but this is an issue against regulars who are well aware that we can't do anything. If we threaten punishment, we get told to "**** off" back. There has also been a recurring issue with admins ignoring the reports on this, of which Gandalf even had to bring it up at a meeting once.

I love how everyone has the need to blame me and the group for these issues when it is coming from people who have been here for years and already know better...

Most group leaders don’t have the scripted power either, and they still manage to organize their groups successfully.

Those groups don't contain a part of the job that they can't control. You're either in the group or you are not. I have no control over Volunteer Firefighters, who are non-SAFD people on Fire Duty, and are the problem here.

Either yes or no SAFD should be totaly recreated,like SAPD 

No. SAFD is not the issue. It is regular players playing as Volunteer Firefighters in SAFD that are causing this mess.

Ok, so what did you do since RS5 release as ARFD Chief??

I helped the Devs come up with ideas and find bugs. I showed people how the new system worked, and despite being at work IRL almost every day, I was able to find and assign new division leadership to the SAFD after several others had resigned for RL reasons. I have also worked on several regulations, and helped draft plans for building up each Station, allowing the new Battalion Chief some free reign on how he wants to do it.

So tell me...what have you done?...


As a side note, the rank is called ARFD Commissioner, not ARFD Chief. People commonly make this same mistake towards ARPD too, which creates confusion when discussing a division/Department's leadership.

[Benn]

The fire department as it is now doesn't reflect your hard work , and you can't keep blaming voulenteers for it ,  you can set someone from SAFD to organize RPs for everyone at the department and also organize the mission so it won't be seen as a race

[SugarD]

The fire department as it is now doesn't reflect your hard work , and you can't keep blaming voulenteers for it ,  you can set someone from SAFD to organize RPs for everyone at the department and also organize the mission so it won't be seen as a race

1. Actually I can, as it is regular players in this position that are creating every single complaint I have seen so far.

2. They already do, and often get told to "**** off" when asking others to join in. It pretty much shows the attitude of the people creating these problems...

[Benn]

1. Actually I can, as it is regular players in this position that are creating every single complaint I have seen so far.

2. They already do, and often get told to "**** off" when asking others to join in. It pretty much shows the attitude of the people creating these problems...

Complaints are created looking for attention thats all you can ignore them most of the times because they make no sense but sometimes complaints are created to suggest stuff that aren't related to scripts  changes , and not all the voulenteers keep complaining some of them are really willing to RP try to interact with those instead of others who only see money in their eyes

[Pingster]

So tell me...what have you done?...

Encouraged teamwork in-game, not things on forums which your average fireman won't visit.
Works well to an extent, but I hear Conroy's adding moar stuff, hopefully that'll help the efforts.

If SAFD had a constant presence in-game, you could get more people to join it. More people who'd be like minded about teamwork and roleplay. And a snowball effect COULD be observed. Just don't expect them to stay forever and don't set high requirements, that'll do no one good. Fireman is rarely a permanent occupation for most players.

If you do not have time to do it yourself, get someone to do it for you! I'm not one to talk, sure, I haven't been IG for a week or so, but get someone who's active to lead the SAFD in your absence, cos I never saw Pulse online when I was busy helping firemen see the true path.


And once you've got enough following, attempt to get SAFD to a level SAPD is - where, by going on duty, you agree to the roleplay of following the procedures and obeying the ranked firemen or get cop(fire)banned. It's pointless when the group is inactive (it is, Jack, there's no point arguing that, if it isn't, you don't notice the presence anyway.), but whole different story when you've got a large group who wants to change the way things go.

[SugarD]

Complaints are created looking for attention thats all you can ignore them most of the times because they make no sense but sometimes complaints are created to suggest stuff that aren't related to scripts  changes , and not all the voulenteers keep complaining some of them are really willing to RP try to interact with those instead of others who only see money in their eyes

And those Volunteers are the ones that I keep urging everyone to help teach.

Encouraged teamwork in-game...

Thank you for your efforts. It is very much appreciated.

If SAFD had a constant presence in-game, you could get more people to join it.

The problem is that we do not have enough people to create a constant presence yet. Most of that is because of the ridicule and hatred we had received over the last 5 years for simply existing.

If you do not have time to do it yourself, get someone to do it for you! I'm not one to talk, sure, I haven't been IG for a week or so, but get someone who's active to lead the SAFD in your absence, cos I never saw Pulse online when I was busy helping firemen see the true path.

He has been away for the holidays, traveling out of country. He is also the current Battalion Chief for SA:MP SAFD, which makes him the leader of the server's FD stuff under me.

And once you've got enough following, attempt to get SAFD to a level SAPD is - where, by going on duty, you agree to the roleplay of following the procedures and obeying the ranked firemen or get cop(fire)banned.

You're talking about a fight I have been fighting for five years with very little support from the majority of the community. So far only a few have been willing to help, and the help they have given to me has been priceless. (At least three of them I can think off off-hand include David_Omid, DHR.Mike, and Conroy).