Let's get real - part 2 - RS5 or RS4?

[Frank_Hawk]

The Argonath SA:MP server is in a state of great depression.

We can collectively continue looking at the past, critiquing the implementation of RS5 or we can concentrate on remediating the unprecedented challenges we face. Summarising many of the points I’ve seen on this topic is that RS5 lacks the spirit, personality and flare of its predecessors. Combined with internal and external factors which were out of our control supported by the lack of leadership post-implementation – we all need to pull together and provide real solutions that the leadership (whenever they become active) can consider therefore we can provide some real hope of returning to relative normality.

RS5 is facing enormous challenges:

1)   Economic stagnation is demoralising the community translating to players becoming frustrated and leaving. For example, players are less likely to spend because they have less money meaning less money is being pumped into the economy i.e. taxi driver have no fares

2)   Groups and families accounted for nearly 2/3 of the community and with no real fundamental method of making money through non-public jobs, these groups have grinded to a halt meaning that major public services like the SAPD have also stagnated.

3)   The removal of long standing functionality attributed to the ‘spirit, flare and personality’ of Argonath (i.e. RS1, RS2, RS3, RS4) was removed. This core functionality being removed has changed the game mode again translating to players leaving.

Personally, the above issues are very difficult to resolve with the current climate in the server. I’ve mentioned some corrective actions in my previous post but nobody except JDC or Mario Rinna has even attempted to work towards a resolution, instead opting for rhetorical nonsense over resolution.

The major argument for RS5 is that new features will provide solutions to the points above, however how can solutions be provided with no real player base left. The lack of experience in the server’s management is regretfully beginning to show and the arm’s length leadership of Gandalf is causing irreversible damage to the community. We need to actively encourage and discuss in open the solutions that the management/leadership are considering otherwise players are going to continue leaving.

Mario Rinna suggested another alternative which is now a serious and heavily endorsed idea which is to roll back to the last backup of RS4 and restore some confidence and normality into the server. This is a suggested solution as RS5 has been given reasonable teething time to self-correct but now having seen the dust settle, the core problems persist with no real communicated resolution on the horizon. 

I usually don’t get involved in server management issues anymore given my past, but seeing the state of the Argonath SA:MP community saddens me to a great degree, seeing all the aspirations of past leaders, managers, admins, players and historic players being quashed into ashes. We still have time to turn this around and we have the collective responsibility to restore the server’s competitive stance on the world SA:MP stage in hope of securing the best talent out there and continued organic growth.

Please vote and where possible providing some reasoning in the form of a response to this topic.

[Nikiola]

You couldn't have said it Better. Nice Post bro

[Kaze]

I voted for RS4.

[Morais]

Enjoyed reading your post Frank, unfortunately this will have 0 effect on the server.

[saberman]

I believe RS5 should stay, but the assets of RS4 returned (vehicles, properties). RS5 is good, but it has some negative points, like jurisdiction, economy (the best way to legally earn money is by being a fireman) and PNS.

[Pingster]

I don't see RS4 ever coming back (temporarily or otherwise) regardless of the support, due to the public stance taken, and backing off from that would cause more harm than good.

What I do see happening, though, is people finally realising how old SA:MP is and moving on to other games. Where before this fact was clouded by the involvement RS4.1 & The community provided, now... Yeah.

There's counter argument that other servers are still going on, but apart from 1 or 2 other servers, I haven't heard of Argonath players moving on to a different SAMP RP server, and the attempts to copy RS4 are far from thriving. If you have to start anew, might as well do it in one of the hundreds of other multiplayer games available.

It's obvious it's not just players getting disheartened by the results of RS5, it's the development team as well, where before we would get huge list of bugfixes over weekend, there's not much going on anymore. Yeah, sure, behind the scenes stuff, highly doubt it though. And I would make the case for management as well, as I have not heard much of in-game involvement. What's that? Management is working more on forums or behidn the scenes than in-game? Yeah, well, so is the rest of the community.

Gandalf's judgement of RS5 being the last gamemode is correct.. But it came too late, 2 years ago might have done it, but now, the player base has been relying on regulars and old players for months, very few new players stayed around for long even in RS4. Nothing to be done about it, sadly.

So alternative proposal... Invest power in new projects? M2MP and others? The community is still alive and wishes to stay together, that can not be denied, we just need to have appealing means to do it.

Mind you, that I'm basing this off of my own experience, 'cos having limited time for gaming, I loved spending it with the diverse, involving community of SA:MP RPG, not so much with the SP community of fireduty and the attempts to MP from the police community. I'm not badmouthing either of them, it's just the way it is every time I'm online, which is getting less and less due to the above reasons. The purpose of chatting with friends on Argonath is more successfully accomplished through Skype and forums now as well, so yeah.


So I vote for neither, I vote for a 3rd option of finding new things to push for. If it's done, it's going to be a massive investment and risk, having to develop a game mode in something you're not sure will get a following. But it might pay off in the end.


And thus we begin another large topic. And don't moan about it, forums are now /p chat.

[Gandalf]

Anyone who feels bad about the state the server is in would do best to go in and play instead of talking about it.
As long as all people do is talk here, nothing is going to change.

[Mr. Goobii]

I voted for RS5, because I believe it could be something. But it's not really done. So actually, I would like to see RS4 be back for the moment and removal of RS5 until it's playable more than being fireman and gain money. I've been roleplaying with mechanics and done things like that, but we don't have any major groups in RS5 which makes it very boring and none alive server.

Properties are a big issue in my mind, the none working business, house, loan, item system does not really work very well, some case it does not even work at all. As a group leader, I find it really hard to stick my own group to this server, as it cannot hold any properties at all. You can not put any footprints on the server, which in my opinion is the most important thing for a mafia/family like us. Vehicles are bugged and cannot be bought, therefor we need to stay with the state vehicles which are around. Same thing applies for the thing I wrote above, it has to be fixed since it most be used for groups that required those things. More or less put a footprint on the server.

I find the jobs really hard except for being fireman, which I think is totally wrong. In my opinion you, the developers should make the job system as equal to other jobs as possible, so every citizen in Argonath have the same chance, not only Fireman which makes thousand a day. It also bother me that the economy is in such case that only a few player have money. If RS5 is ever going to work, the state most pay out paydays at the beginning to stimulate the economy. It may be against what you guys want, that people should earn their own money. But how do you think they gonna roleplay and earn there own money if nobody but few greedy one got money?

The leadership of Argonath is under all critics. You're are still heading under the strict rulership of dicipline and no joking around. There is around 5 people around and 1-2 people of these are admins. They warn and kick you for reasons that may not even applies under such matters when there is just 5 people around. Which makes them even more clearly that Administrations have a big role in this case. After all, who wanna play on a server with abusive/angry admins on?

RS5 has after all been a dramatic update which in my opinion does not hold same standard as Argonath once were. Hopefully it changes over time again and we see the glory of Argonath once shine from the darkness.

[Pingster]

Anyone who feels bad about the state the server is in would do best to go in and play instead of talking about it.
As long as all people do is talk here, nothing is going to change.

That's true. But it's hard to break the loop of everyone going "I would play if others would"

[AK47]

What I do see happening, though, is people finally realising how old SA:MP is and moving on to other games.

This is not true.

I joined another community 3 years ago and the maximum players allowed on the server was 300, and now it's increased to 530 and it's almost full 24/7 (guess you know which one I talk about).
The owners of SA:MP even said the players of SA:MP are increasing.

[JDC]

Players on SA:MP servers may be increasing, but the number of servers are not.


We have to face this fact: RS4 is not coming back as the main gamemode. Not only because years were spent working on RS5, but because RS4 is also technologically obsolete.

What we need to do is pitch in together to get the system of RS5 going, each of us with our own contributions. Complaining and escaping only will not solve anything, just as looking at an apple in a tree and waiting for it to fall into your mouth will not get you a fresh apple if you did that instead of shaking the tree or climbing it.

Still, progress has to come from both sides. Anything the developers will do will be useless if players will not do anything at all either. So instead of waiting for the apple to fall from the tree, do something. Make your own contribution.

What can this contribution be, you may ask? Go ingame. Catch a few suspects. Evade some cops. Do some fire missions. Start an RP initiative. Discuss randomly on /p. Become a pioneer. Continue the work of your faction. Earn some money. Explore the script for hidden possibilities others do not know. Find other ways to make this community better. Roleplay. Get others to roleplay with you. Get others to come. Most importantly, find ways to have fun. You don't have to do all of those, even just one or a couple is already a contribution.

There are so many ways that even a single individual can contribute to this community. Furthermore, if you look back through Argonath history then you will see that many of the greatest changes were started at their roots by a single individual, or a small group of individuals.

The problem is a lack of players and people complaining instead of doing something.
The solution is to pitch in, give effort, help get this community going, and to have fun.

Now what do you want to be a part of, the problem or the solution?
I've already made my choice, and I've chose the latter. Now what is yours?

[matheus_98]

Well , I think that RS5 is good but i wish we had the same number of players in RS4, people may know that RS4 will NEVER  be back.

[Pingster]

At this point I doubt people hate RS5 as a gamemode, people just hate it for what releasing it did to the playerbase and community. RS5 is a good script, it can offer so much, specially when the chinks get sorted out.

JDC, your list of contributions, several of them have major flaws right now, I'm sure you can figure them out. They would be fixed with a bigger playerbase, but that will hardly get sorted out as easy as saying "Log on and play".

[Mr. Goobii]

Many people are the part of the solution. The thing is when nothing happens under these weeks, we find cheated and we keep playing in reasons it may be better. But we also want enjoyment, that's the reason we mostly play for, at leas me. I don't wanna play on something that are broken. Something that does not give anything in exchange.

But I do want to support Argonath as much as possible, so you see me online sometime around when I feel for it, mostly driving around searching for others...

[Mikal]

RS4, RS5 was released too soon.