Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)

[Cofiliano]

Teddy's topic and mostly Philip's reply has inspired me to open a topic that's needed for a long time.

The line between what's Admin job, and what's police job, has been erased in the last 2 years and it only leads to situations where Admins are constantly blocking any attempt of  criminal role play, cause they are basicly illegal.

I'll start from here:

Back when Ancelotti was active we did many roleplays we had never seen in argonath, and almost everytime we were told to stop. We tried to block roads and roleplay illegally extorting truck drivers for money to pass. The result? Move your cars or i'll ban you. .

Gents its not Admin job to protect Trucker from getting robbed. That's a lawbreak not a rulebreak and you got NO RIGHT to forbid criminals from doing it, yet people get ban for it. That's WHAT CRIMINALS DO. They rob, they do extortions, they claim public area, they claim territory. That's our JOB, and yes its ILLEGAL, yet ITS NOT RULEBREAKING just because its ILLEGAL. And that's why you have the POLICE/FBI/SWAT around. Not Admins who will ban you for doing it!

You're getting pulled out by Mafia? Call your friends truckers to help you! They can't do it, or w/e? Call the police. We all pay them by financing the Government to "Serve and protect" right? They aren't enough? Call the FBI. You want extra security for your convoys?
Hire Security Firms! (Oh did we just gave a huge burst into making Security Firms  roleplays actually alive, actually having something to do? GG)



Public Casinos (non owned Casinos) is the same story.
 You can't extort the dealer cause an admin shows up and says: "You dont own the Casino, move out or ban". No shit Sherlock, of course we don't own it, but we claim it as ours, we claim the territory on which the Casino is to be ours,  we are in TITTLE TO CLAIM (source:Gandalf), and there's NOTHING you can do about it, because that's not a rulebreaking, that's a law breaking!

What can a dealer to? Same as Trucker:
1. Call the Police, not admin.. Cause its a illegal job, not rulebreak, the police should protect you, and  take care of those thugs.
2. Call the FBI, not admins. Cause its the FBI job to go after ORGANIZED CRIMINAL GROUPS, not members of the HQ while trolling with them.
3. Hiring your own personal security. Again, Matute's Granny Protection Agency is full of work and roleplay, gg!

Its a "free market" out there, criminals are competition to each other over profitable businesses, such as Casinos/Truckers/Weed collecting, you can't just show up and say: "Stop or ban ok bye". If a random guys steps in, he triggers the Criminal Syndicates to handle him, one way or the other, and there's nothing you can do about, its the same system how you trigger COPS to start chasing you as soon as you kill someone, you trigger their job by doing such actions, and some people gotta realize and understand this finally!

If you're not a criminal yet a civilian, and you want in some of this businesses, then get ready to take the risk of getting robbed/extortion/and push around by organized criminals, cause that's their job, that's what they had to go through as well when they started, that's what they do to each other,and that's their living, that's what their role and existence is all about, and if you think for a second there's 23252 ways you can solve those situations into your own benefit. (If you wanna be into criminal business, then become one. If you wanna do some legal work as a legal citizens that's usually run by Criminals(Casinos), then hire a security firm or/plus call the police/fbi etc)

And all of this is accepted by Gandalf. You guys remember Gvardia protecting weed spots at SF 2-3 years ago?

This is basically the same thing, and Gandalf allowed that, so don't listen to me, yet listen to the owner of this server, and stop baning people for it! Cause ur ruining the criminal roleplay, or what's left from it, and then all of a sudden "creativity topics".


All of this above is no different then robbing a guy in the middle of street. Soon you guys gonna show up and say:"U cant rob him, this street is not your property, stop or ban". Will you knock it off? You're Admins, not Cops/Judges.


Admins job in this situations is ONLY to make sure that the sides roleplayed it in at least basic manner. Nothing else! You wanna act like a Cop? Go on duty and chase the bad guys, because /ban and /tempban ARE NOT POLICE/JUDGES COMMANDS.
 

PS-Sorry if the topic is messed up a bit,  I was writing it fast, and couldn't check twice before submitting it.

[Morais]

Couldn't agree more. I see both duties getting mixed up sometimes.

[DeeJay]

What can a dealer to? Same as Trucker:
1. Call the Police, not admin.. Cause its a illegal job, not rulebreak, the police should protect you, and  take care of those thugs.
2. Call the FBI, not admins. Cause its the FBI job to go after ORGANIZED CRIMINAL GROUPS, not members of the HQ while trolling with them.
3. Hiring your own personal security. Again, Matute's Granny Protection Agency is full of work and roleplay, gg!

This here you wrote is so true, but the cops tend turn it around and try to bust you instead for illegal cargo and exceeding cargo limit. But I agree the admins and cops should know the difference between rulebreaking and lawbreaking.

[taseen11]

Agreed.

[Manas]

Simply Superb. Can't agree more on this.

[Murt]

Some strong points mate... feels good that someone is pointing them out. Feels like the dependency weighs on staff nowadays. Matters that should be within roleplay boundaries becomes an administrative matter instead.

The simple sense of today's roleplay within Argonath is limited with prohibitions that discourages roleplay, that's a fact according to me. Just my honest opinion. I don't care if no one really agrees or not. What is not weighing in someone's favour just attempts to make it an administrative matter unfortunately. Although, I'll say this, there has arised an escalation that simple matters that can be solved within roleplay scenarios turns out to events that violates the rules.

[AK47]

this is why people stop roleplaying on argonath

[Denzel.]

Totally supporting Cofiliano's statement, I don't see the point of roleplaying and or being in a criminal if you are to make those situations into an admin matter, If these type of things are forbidden, the law enforcements won't be useful anymore, for the cops, you also have noticed that no one actually call 911 anymore, we need to do something about it.

[Vaeldious]

Funny how since early versions of argo have the same plagues of current.

Couldnt agree with you more.

[Johan_S]

Got banned once for a situation of extortion with reason : Forcing Roleplay (The user do not want to roleplay with you). Since that day i never repeated Extortions. I hope this post will make others think well in order to extend the roleplay factions which criminals should do.

[Cofiliano]

I can't dig up through all his posts, but Gandalf was clear on this subject, and it goes something like this

You don't wanna roleplay? /q

[Raffaelo1993]

All true Cofi,bravo

[Nexxt]

What do you expect? Around like 70 percent of the admins are cops, I do not want to disrespect them but it is pretty clear that they seem to be unaware of where the actual 'line' is between police and administrative duties. I have been saying it for years that the admin interference is way too high within the community, admins should have NO influence on any kind of roleplay, unless the server rules are being broken. In a shitload of cases, I never seen broken server rules but I seen people being told to stop because the admin 'thinks it is inappropriate'.

I haven't been around here for a while and I have no idea what's the current situation in-game, but try to imagine why loads of veterans (that's how they are called, eh?) left the community for other alternatives. A hand full of administrators here are police officers with extended rights, people who punish for not 'liking it personally'. We have server rules, stick to them as everyone has to do it. If a RP is illegal, it should be dealt with by the cops, not the freaking administrative team.

[Pandalink]

Great topic.

A lot of people simply see /report as a line of defence against a situation that they don't like. Whether it's them getting robbed, or extorted, or anything else that doesn't benefit them.
That isn't what /report is for. Don't use admins to bust you out of roleplays you don't like, work out a better way to deal with them (as Cofi said, call the police, FBI, hire security, get some friends to help you). Lots of inventive ways to stay safe that keep it fun for everyone.

[Ivan_MC]

Tottaly agreed on this, but it's not always admins foult sometimes the players themselfes make this kind of situation.       
For example:
Me and Dexi went to stop and rob some random trucker.
It was no any diferent rob scenario from any other... we cut the trucker way, we exit the car with the guns in hand and start to ROLEPLAY. And what we get? ASAP /report from the other player "DM" . Why calling them? Call the police. We stoped you, you continued driving, we shot ur tyres. That is NOT dm that is mafia ROLEPLAY !

So my point is: Sometimes its players foult that you get admins interupting our ROLEPLAY and getting that attitude    "Get lost or get ban". It seems like the players are bored of RP so they don't even want to involve in any of them... You might say that i truck all day but i NEVER refused an RolePlay scenario even if i had to die and lose guns+cargo for example.