Difference between being an Admin,and being a Cop.(Forbidding criminal roleplay)

[Kessu]

This started as a topic with a great point...
... got derailed into yet another cops vs criminals shitfest...

Your posts are on the fast tracks of becoming a total shitfest.

[Huntsman]

Your posts are on the fast tracks of becoming a total shitfest.

As if you sticking your nose into bussiness that shouldn't concern you is any better. Shove your personal disatisfaction with me up your area where sun doesn't shine and keep away. Thanks.

Not every discussion is an arguement with no sense. Discussing solves things and can prevent problems from appearing, let people talk

Exactly as I said, the original purpose of the topic made sense and had engaged a great discussion until it became cops vs criminals argument again.

[Cyril]

[[NP]Monte Montague]

LOL

[AK47]

shouldn't you make a statement instead of encouraging such posts?

[Cyril]

shouldn't you make a statement instead of encouraging such posts?

Statement about what? I'm not their babysitter.

[Devin]

As if you sticking your nose into bussiness that shouldn't concern you is any better. Shove your personal disatisfaction with me up your area where sun doesn't shine and keep away. Thanks.

Enough with your attitude towards those you dislike or don't agree with. Thanks.

[CBFasi]

To my understanding, this is returning and I believe you're not allowed to return to the place you were killed, especially if the players that killed you are still there.

I think your understanding is rather off .. no return refers to the situation, and is particularly aimed at those who return to help buddies!

In the case you refer to, that player is allowed to return, that player is not involving you, if you want to get involved, thats not them but you ..


HOWEVER

I do agree that admins are getting involved too much in what should be non admin work but rp work.

BUT .. as others have indicated is not actually the admin's fault, in fact the admin staff would be quite happy to have little to do other then deal with the hackers.

When a player /reports, the admins react and works on what they have been told and what they can see.

FAR TOO MANY players are using /report as means of moaning that they didn't get what they wanted out of a situation, either loosing a fight, walking in front of a vehicle, rp just not going there way.. etc

If an admin has decided not to react because they think its not a rule problem that player then moans and complains, sometimes even sending off the email...   

Admins are moaned about doign things, and not doign things... maybe its time to work out WHY we get through so many admins when players treat us as slaves to do their bidding when things dont go there way.

Sorry but I have been here long enough to see many of the tricks that players will use to make something look like a rulebreak just to get something their way, including trying different admins as we all have differing approaches!

Get a backbone kiddies (relatively speaking), support your admins, stop using them to win your fight and maybe they will not join in the fights!

[Antonio.]

Statement about what? I'm not their babysitter.

You're also not a comedian, so stop always trying to be a troll in these kind of topics in attempt to derail them.

I think your understanding is rather off .. no return refers to the situation, and is particularly aimed at those who return to help buddies!

In the case you refer to, that player is allowed to return, that player is not involving you, if you want to get involved, thats not them but you ..

Players have been punished for what I stated. In RS4 I was once killed at a weed spot by police, and as I think about it, one of the police officers was Cyril. After I died I went to get my weed but I was TP'd away from the spot and was told that I couldn't return. In the meantime cops were just taking the drugs.

In the situation I stated, the person was killed for being a dealer in the casino and not complying to our demands. Just after he died he came back and continued doing the same thing he was killed for, which means he's returning to the same RP scenario.

[Teddy]

An interesting perspective Cofi. I can admit I have seen the duties mismatched a few times. I do think it happens on both sides of the table; such as SAPD members suspecting for things such as ramming... hell I even saw a cop suspect someone for hacking.

The robbing part needs to be more defined by a standard. Running up to someone and shouting something a few times and then shooting isn't RP. We need to see more complex RPs unfold. Criminals don't want police involvement in reality where was in Argonath it seems all anyone wants is police involvement. I think all sides of the table actually need to consider their own piece of the pie and understand exactly where their slice ends.

[Stivi]

If you would be able to do something else than this, oh boy things would be different.

[Vladislav]

Really don't see why these pictures have to be posted in every discussion lol.


Anyway, yeah i'd rather have a robbery scenario where cops don't show up and we get what we want. However, should the person victim call the cops it's fine, the role-play can still continue with a police presence (albeit, this would change the outcome.) After admin intervention however, there's usually little room to continue as someone's either been punished or both/either sides are too pissed off with each other to continue.

Regrettably, a lot of the time when some cops arrive to the scene, they're already thinking of the next suspect they're going to catch so they'd rather cuff you and have you in a cell as quick as possible rather than role-play with you. I'm sure it's in scenarios like this where criminals decide they'd rather shoot their way out than go through the same old boring process of being investigated/cuffed and jailed. It's as if some players are following a script, they have no willingness to adapt to the scenario at all and would sooner have an admin step in than try to roleplay their way out of it.

[RafaDK]

This is the current line between Cop/Admin duty: None.

Like CBF said, the player base within the server, at the moment, sees /report as a solution to turn the current situation into their own advantage.

This is not just a case that cycles around cops; It's the community as a whole.

Citizens / Criminals / Cops see administrative intervention as a mean to get away from scenarios they don't find appropriate for themselves.

Like Cofi pointed out, citizens use Deathmatch as an excuse to get an admin intervention even before anything happens, trying to be more specific, a criminal enters your casino/blocks your away/; helding a gun close enough to you and a report is instantly made, even if the admin doesn't take any action he will still look into it stalling the RP, PM'ing both parties to ask questions, when a simple /spectate ID(?) would suffice. Usually, the RP with the admin PM'ing will be delayed enough for a patrol unit show up, just in time. But usually the admin takes action by shutting off the current scenario, disregarding completely Roleplay.

Criminals? Well, this has much to be added into it, but I'll keep it simply and I won't mention names, but taking an example of today I'll topic what happened for a clean and fast read:

- Sent hired personnel to engage someone to do my job (in this case was a kidnap/robbery);
- The contract ignores my Hitman's Semi-Automatic Shotgun, and pulls out a Deagle;
- I show up to assist, along with some other Criminal Group, that is not my own, yet, affiliated with my 'Hitman';
- The contract ignores all the RP lines, until cops finally show up;
- Eventually he threatens me and leaves;
- I chase him, which ends off with him instantly AFK'ing as soon as we get close to him (his Sultan vs my Infernus);
- This is where I /report, for AFK'ing to avoid RP;
- Nothing happens. After a solid 5 minutes or more, he comes back, we start to RP, and we can see that he clearly doesn't want to put  much effort into it;
- Eventually he says 'I refuse to Roleplay now';
- Starts to sprint off ignoring all the weapons and hits that he got (Headbutt/Smacked in the head with the weapon/Shot in a leg - Yes 10/10 RP), my Hitman and his friend shoot him, so I decide to shoot too, I get the most hits and eventually the kill... (Not saying it was a good call, but he threatened me, and after alt-tabbing to avoid the RP, this 'I refuse to Roleplay' seemed as another lame excuse to stay alive and return later);
- I get PM'd by the admin 'I know you tried everything to RP with him, and this is not about you killing him, but try to avoid RP'ing with him';
- And I explained the full situation, and the following PM came 'Yea, but I think he doesn't like you' or something with the same meaning;
- What????

Basically this was not an intervention against him for Alt-tabbing to avoid RP, but an intervention to the whole RP going on the server - 'He doesn't like you so avoid RP with him'. I'm not judging the admin, he is trying to keep the server without any tension. I'm blaming the player for asking admins' intervention for his own 'safety' within the criminal Roleplay. Yes he indeed Roleplays on the criminal side. Yet, he can't take the pressure of a simple criminal Roleplay which he should be familiarized with in the first place.

Yet what just happened is exactly what we are discussing, another intervention requested by players to the admin team to avoid Roleplays they do not like to happen to them, hello?

Change your current Roleplay to something non-criminal? Or even, like Gandalf said '/q if you don't want to Roleplay' instead of asking admins' help?
^ This is a callout to everyone, admins should be focusing on real Rulebreaks, not the fact that you can't go around the current Roleplay you're in.


There's a simple solution to all of this.
Admins focus on the major rulebreaks; Hacking as an example, and whenever there's a sudden cry for help in /report, before bothering both sides, check if there's any DM listed on the chatlogs, and if there is, engage a conversation with the players to see why did he kill him. Spectate first to see if there's shooting going on so you can instantly freeze them, and ask your questions, just don't do anything if when you spectate only Roleplay is happening.

If everything is going within the rules, don't engage with the players.
Maybe keep an eye on the situation, but don't let them know, if everything is going within the server rules.

This should give players the impression that admins are not taking action to the rulebreaks, but hey! If you did not interfere in that /report, it's because there was nothing to be dealt with in the first place.

Plus, giving that impression will lead, eventually, to players to use /report for real reasons and not just a way to safely avoid a Roleplay situation that doesn't favour them and instead, call 911.

[Manas]

Nice

Spoiler for Hiden:

Quoting Devin from a locked unban request topic
"Do you know what they call such people?
[Answer  ]

[Devin]

Your post makes no sense.