This is the problem.

[Benn]

don't know if I have the chat logs of 2007/2008, but they did and were more or less bullied in to remaining in game.
As you know every line of rules is looked at to exploit and used to advantage. The quote that you showed can be used for players to force others in to remianing in a situation they wish to get out of.
Apart from tht without the ability for admins to check the logs a lot of it will not be enforceable unless you feel the managers have not enough work to do.

Main guidline for rules : KISS (Keep it simple, stupid).

You do understand that people started using your words to deny roleplay cases even if they had enough time to participate in one they prefered not to...

[Gandalf]

This is not the main case Gandalf, if they have to do something IRL or whatever regarding that, it should be fine for them to /q or go AFK(as we have some tools which shows someone's AFK or not). BUT people refuse to RP (mainly robbery and traffic stops scenarios) because they wanna go trucking 24/7 and earn virtual money which is not logical, money shouldn't be the purpose of their gameplay but a simple tool to make their gameplay abit easier. Mostly they use "/em(or /pm) I don't wanna RP with you" "/em(or /pm) I don't have time to RP with you IM TRUCKING! can't you see that?"
Indeed, people shouldn't be forced to accept the same situations over and over as they may get tired of it which is completely logical.

You do understand that people started using your words to deny roleplay cases even if they had enough time to participate in one they prefered not to...

Both things are understood. The question is what are you wanting to do about it?
If someone sends such a PM to you report to a manager and get a log check for a tempban?
Just find someone else to play with...why interact with someone who is not interested?

[AK47]

Both things are understood. The question is what are you wanting to do about it?
If someone sends such a PM to you report to a manager and get a log check for a tempban?
Just find someone else to play with...why interact with someone who is not interested?

if they aren't interested they should be removed from the server

[Antonio.]

Just find someone else to play with...why interact with someone who is not interested?

The point is being more strict about it. If players really do like the server, I don't see any of them leaving it because they are being told to roleplay. However if they have this thing in their head that makes them believe that they don't have to roleplay whenever they feel like it, a punishment or two will change this behaviour.

If they continue even after being punished a few times, then

if they aren't interested they should be removed from the server

[Leon.]

It would be rather difficult to enforce roleplaying given the atmosphere Argonath has had from the very beginning. However I believe some level of effort on enforcing the roleplay part of being an RPG server would really be beneficial in regards to keeping the server interesting. If somebody does not wish to roleplay for whatever reason at some given point of time, that's fine however there are a fair number of players who will avoid roleplay if the outcome of the RP might not be in their favor (e.g. GroupX rolls up on enemy GroupY with a full car, GroupY simply refuses any interaction) , and those who simply chronically refuse to acknowledge the fact that Argonath is an RPG server. People like this are toxic to the atmosphere Argonath provides, and reduces the dynamic that keeps things interesting - the roleplay. We should not stand by and enable this toxin to spread throughout the community. People who see people roleplay on a regular basis are more likely to engage, and as the number of those who engage in roleplay rises, the roleplay available will become increasingly dynamic - something that doesn't have to involve a robbery or gang war.

[wweman14]

Kick for avoiding roleplay and 'no time for roleplay!

Looks like you'd ought to kick yourself from the other day, then. This server wasn't meant for testing mods last time I checked.

[CharlieKasper]

Looks like you'd ought to kick yourself from the other day, then. This server wasn't meant for testing mods last time I checked.

Well boo boo, sorry I didn't pick your call.

[Stof.]

^ This isn't the place to call each other out.

It would be rather difficult to enforce roleplaying given the atmosphere Argonath has had from the very beginning. However I believe some level of effort on enforcing the roleplay part of being an RPG server would really be beneficial in regards to keeping the server interesting. If somebody does not wish to roleplay for whatever reason at some given point of time, that's fine however there are a fair number of players who will avoid roleplay if the outcome of the RP might not be in their favor (e.g. GroupX rolls up on enemy GroupY with a full car, GroupY simply refuses any interaction) , and those who simply chronically refuse to acknowledge the fact that Argonath is an RPG server. People like this are toxic to the atmosphere Argonath provides, and reduces the dynamic that keeps things interesting - the roleplay. We should not stand by and enable this toxin to spread throughout the community. People who see people roleplay on a regular basis are more likely to engage, and as the number of those who engage in roleplay rises, the roleplay available will become increasingly dynamic - something that doesn't have to involve a robbery or gang war.

This is exactly right. It will be a fair amount of work in the beginning if we are to implement punishments and so on but the way that I see it is, once the rules have been set out right and enforced, I'm assuming people will catch the drift and start playing the game the way it's meant to be played. So, the work-load (hopefully) goes down after a while with less people non-RPing apart from new players who may need to be taught. I'm not at all saying to ban people for this, if anything a tempban to jump on the forums and study the server a bit, leading to ban eventually if they keep going. With help from the community we the Players+Admins can recognize/act on behaviours in game and avoid log checks. Usually if someone is being anti social or just foul, that doesn't up and change in a matter of minutes.     

 

[Gandalf]

I agree that people should be in the server to roleplay, and those who are present for another reason should be encouraged to find other venues. The issue however is always enforcement of rules.
We have always kept to the guideline that our admin team has to have evidence to punish, and will not punish on report of anyone simply because that leaves room for false reports. This means that if an admin gets a report "x refuses to roleplay" he is not alllowed to punish, but has to investigate. This should not change.

For those who wish to implement a stronger obligation to roleplay, here is asituation that I know happened.
Player Some_Mafia is going from Pershing Square after being released to a family meeting. After 2 streets he is stopped by a cop who seems to be interested in a long check of the car and person. Can he tell the player that he is busy going to a meeting and has no time or would he be 'forced' to roleplay along with the check? What if this one is finished and three streets further another police officer attempts the same?
What if when het gets out near the meeting there is another player who wants to roleplay a robbery?
If he is forced to go along with all of them, the meeting will probably be over by the time he gets there.

Now a second situation. Noob_Player goes up to a street gang and says 'hi'. He gets the message to go away because they do not play with noobs. Can he report the street gang  for not being willing to roleplay?

[Spike.]

Now a second situation. Noob_Player goes up to a street gang and says 'hi'. He gets the message to go away because they do not play with noobs. Can he report the street gang  for not being willing to roleplay?

Yes he would be able to the thing is, would his RP level be of a similar level to the gang's or is he one of those who RPs, "/me takes a gun out of his ass and shoots the balla because he's back".

[AK47]

For those who wish to implement a stronger obligation to roleplay, here is asituation that I know happened.
Player Some_Mafia is going from Pershing Square after being released to a family meeting. After 2 streets he is stopped by a cop who seems to be interested in a long check of the car and person. Can he tell the player that he is busy going to a meeting and has no time or would he be 'forced' to roleplay along with the check? What if this one is finished and three streets further another police officer attempts the same?

i see this as lack of communication between the officers then, but of course he should stop of he is being pulled over

What if when het gets out near the meeting there is another player who wants to roleplay a robbery?

he should go along with the robbery and try to contact his fellow mafiafriends, and if he fails he can always go to them after and then they can take action on the robber

Now a second situation. Noob_Player goes up to a street gang and says 'hi'. He gets the message to go away because they do not play with noobs. Can he report the street gang  for not being willing to roleplay?

depends, if he just says "hi" the problem lies with the other players if they just ignore him or tell him to go away, and they should be talked to ofcourse but as fernando said, is he an direct asspuller or just a guy with small wordusage

[Benn]

Alot of what have been said in Argonath Vision has changed, and this is probably why you're disappointed.
Argonath Vision stated clearly that SAPD will never be closed and joined by applications only...but it did happen.
Argonath Vision also stated that you're not forced to roleplay but now we are.
At first it was hard to accept but we eventually did.
Of course I loved how the server was, thats what kept me in it but I do still love it now.
and if you ask me which one I prefer the old vision or the new one I would say RS4. but sadly thats no longer an option

[Gandalf]

Yes he would be able to the thing is, would his RP level be of a similar level to the gang's or is he one of those who RPs, "/me takes a gun out of his ass and shoots the balla because he's back".

Considering the age of SA:MP a new player might have higher skills as the street gang, the only way to find out is to engage in roleplay.

But what is your answer on the first situation?

[Spike.]

But what is your answer on the first situation?

I would say he should role play with the cop and simply tell the other family members through an out of RP message that he got trapped in a role play and will take a little longer.
In real life (Don't bring up that this is not an IRL server because a RP server is meant to be realistic no?) if you get stopped by a cop you can't just say "Sorry I am busy, stop me later today).

[Que]

If maintaining a wide player base with good intentions of roleplaying, we need to be harder on the ones who prefer irrelevant and pretty unnecessary nonsense whatsoever. Of course, everyone can enjoy the main chat and its pretty weird and unique discussions, but if a roleplay scenario pops up where you, as a player is involved somehow, that should be your priority at all times. If someone needs to log off at some point because of something personal, I am more than willing to let that person go, but just to doing the regular and old "sorry I don't have time for this" or "sorry, i am bored cba to do it" - then they should honestly not be on the server at all. Every scenario that is created in game has an unique tone that you can develop however you want while being in it. Blaming others for "the same old robbery" or "the same old police arrest" is just a way of being uninventive and uncreative. Make something good out of it.