FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss

[Ramo_Hawk]

I have posted this on Devin's topic 'Current Behavior' a couple of weeks ago and unfortunately it wasn't given the attention it deserves. Server has been going crazy lately with absolute nonsense from these constant arguments the groups have and as Leon Arallian has previously stated on a topic, that a solution has to be found otherwise it will lead to unwanted actions from HQ. It will also be a basic self-destruct to the server. So take the time to read my post and discuss your opinions on the subject, please do NOT go out of topic and do not insult anyone. Cheers.

I personally would like to say that I understand both sides' point of views respectively and I have come up with a solution which is a possible win-win or a halfwin-halfwin, depends on how you see it and depends on how both groups see it.

I have just spoken with Leon and we have just had an hour conversation which we're suppose to continue tomorrow, but I'd like your opinion on it, Devin, and also the server's and both sides that are usually involved. I've spoken about it with Leon before I even told FLA about it. Basically my idea is this: What if we give it some sort of a one-month trial independence and see how we move on from there? I am speaking about Angel Pine, giving Angel Pine independence. One of FLA's Leadership basically told me its nonsense because its just a small town, and even JUST Angel Pine is nearly impossible to give independence because I'm definite that the SAPD doesn't want to be limited on their jurisdiction. But for example, building up a company, you have to start small from somewhere and build your way to the top, and not just start balling from the beginning. If Angel Pine is given a one-month trial as independence, those who continuously ask for it will have that small chance to prove themselves.

IF they fail to do so, HQ will end the experiment/project, whatever you want to call it, and tell FLA to stop asking for independence because they've given them a chance, and they failed to prove themselves. If they succeeded, leave it for a longer period of time and see how it progresses, if it fucks up along the way, see what can be fixed. If it cannot, simply once again just abandon the project. Maybe if a lot of succession is done, it can later on go on to other parts of Flint.

On the other hand, might proposal might have some backlash due to Law Enforcements was jurisdiction everywhere, and they might claim what will happen if a criminal goes to your independent place with different laws? Considering the laws that were broken are on the other side, you will contact the appointed embassies of Angel Pine and find a solution, they might either give you the jurisdiction for a temporary time to capture the suspect, or they send their own forces. If they fail to do so, screw it, just leave it be and call it a day. OR maybe, set up a form of an agreement with some people and set up some of your actual people who would like to RP as cops in Angel Pine as I'm sure no one from FLA would like to be a cop. In order to ensure that the criminals do not enter their boarder, defend the boarder like you were doing at Flint's Bridge, and this goes for both groups.

As Leon has previously mentioned to me privately, why not just roleplay it? And we all know how that went for Argonath for these past years with the mentality of "RP IT", it held back Argonath a lot and a lot of great players were lost of it because some things need to be official, some things need to be visualized. If some of you continue to keep saying "just rp it", why don't you RP the /wear and other objects as well?

This is a sort of win-win situation because Angel Pine will have its own government, its own constitution, its own groups and so on and basically it they'll get their independence which they've been continuously asking for. On the other hand, it will stop SAPD from being forced to join in the shootouts, and will no longer have to be on the look out for FLA. My proposal will help both sides, a lot, and it should be a solution to fixing these constant arguments and mass shootouts that are continuously made. A lot of more possible roleplay will be able to be done due to forcing both sides interacting together in order to help each other and not be enemies.

I assure you that if this isn't given at least a try, come up with a better solution. If you are against with anything that I have mentioned, state it and maybe I can try and find a solution myself. If this doesn't go on, either more chaos will be created In-Game, more fighting, more arguments which will lead to people leaving or HQ to step in and demolish FLA, which will still then get everyone who supports FLA to riot and either end up leaving or cause more chaos with HQ. A solution has to be found, tomorrow if not today, but it has to be found ASAP.

EDIT: Poll has been added.

[Mikal]

Nice topic, but it isn't really needed, we will take whats ours and nobody can stop us.

Though official independence would be lovely!

[Gnb_22]

I suggest giving a reason after you vote...

[Matthew_Green]

Trying to be neutral-sided here, but I think the whole "1-month Trial" should happen. It should hopefully end all of the roadblocks at the toll plazas that everyone *loves* and all of the "DM-fest" moaning everyone does in /p whenever FBI and SAPD does an operation in Angel Pine. However, that's just a theory. It'll become an experiment should the Trial occur.


However this has me thinking, with the whole "1-month Trial" in progress would the server resemble the early years of the server? (It's in the archives somewhere...) Where instead of just one large government, it's just 2 different governments (or back then 3).

[Chase]

I would prefer such a vote be done in a roleplay manner in game as a referendum. If enough votes pass, I think the court should allow them to secede from the United States of Argonath and form their own government. If not enough votes pass, the only way to solve this in my opinion from then on is to make a armistice or cease fire agreement as I said previously.

[Salmonella]

I would prefer such a vote be done in a roleplay manner in game as a referendum. If enough votes pass, I think the court should allow them to secede from the United States of Argonath and form their own government. If not enough votes pass, the only way to solve this in my opinion from then on is to make a armistice or cease fire agreement as I said previously.

I guess this vote is to enable the roleplay vote you speak of, though.

[Leonardo]

I agree with Chase. Elaborate a referendum with all the reasons you propose for Flint County to be an independent area, your projects for Flint County (considering you wanna gather signatures, it is your job to convince the public opinion to do it, it's just as politics) and get enough signatures to get the attention of the government, whom upon review of the document, may declare FC as independent with (or without) stipulated measures (under certain conditions), considering the opinion of it's own citizens regarding the matter.

As the FLA's territory still legally belongs to the government of the United States of Argonath, it is clear that the law must protect the entire territory, and that includes Flint County as well. As i can say i was glad that the massive shootouts kinda of stopped these last days and i even had some great roleplay interferences with some of their members a few times, we COULD achieve a result that pleases mutually.

[.Matthew.]

What did you do to deserve independence? daily deathmatch and warfare simulator? continuously coming to Los Santos when cops go in ignore mode to gain their attention more? put barriers at random places in flint county and brandish RPGs and other weapons? going into "ban me" mode whenever you lose in a situation and get arrested? having members who give you information via /gm while cuffed and frisked?

[TrotlDebilni]

Weren't you complaining a month ago how nobody wants to roleplay with cops or FBI? Here, a group of people to roleplay with but no; let's not give them a way to roleplay, let's march in like an army every time we see them. This is your time to form an actual FBI investigation to prove how FLA are terrorists or whatever, here is your chance laid out in front of you on a silver plate and you are complaining about it.

What have they done to deserve their independence? As far as I am aware Flint is the only state in SA with an active EMS, FD, church and army who actively participate in the server and actually roleplay.

I would love to see this work out instead of killing it before we have a chance to see what will come out of it.

[.Matthew.]

Weren't you complaining a month ago how nobody wants to roleplay with cops or FBI?

That's true, exactly what I say, when you get arrested it turns into an admin situation in which - "ban me cuz i wont go anywhere fuck dis shit im gonna leave dis server now"

Here, a group of people to roleplay with but no; let's not give them a way to roleplay,

Roleplay by using guns all the times? Arma IV, inspired by Argonath?

let's march in like an army every time we see them.

That's what happens when you have an armed militia requesting independence like this, do you see your country letting a militia walk on your streets, put junk around to block it and aim RPGs around?

This is your time to form an actual FBI investigation to prove how FLA are terrorists or whatever, here is your chance laid out in front of you on a silver plate and you are complaining about it.

We had many and many people in FLA, they just get bored themselves in there and don't feel like being int it for long since it's just what I said it is - Arma IV and warfare simulator.
Besides, only Gandalf would do good in court in this case, and he's hard to reach.

What have they done to deserve their independence? As far as I am aware Flint is the only state in SA with an active EMS, FD, church and army who actively participate in the server and actually roleplay.

Sorry but I find those new gangs that roleplay without requesting a shootout with cops in every darn situation much more deserving of a reward than those who need weapons or RPGs in every scene.

[Huntsman]

What did you do to deserve independence? daily deathmatch and warfare simulator? continuously coming to Los Santos when cops go in ignore mode to gain their attention more? put barriers at random places in flint county and brandish RPGs and other weapons? going into "ban me" mode whenever you lose in a situation and get arrested? having members who give you information via /gm while cuffed and frisked?

Spot on.. I really don't see why FLA is really regarded as that much of a big deal roleplay group. I used to support their idea at first, but now when they gain solid ground and recognition, all they seem to do is find a cop to pick on so they can provoke a shootout or any other gunplay scenario. It has indeed come to a point where cops just ignore them.

[TrotlDebilni]

I'm not saying you are wrong, I just wish to see where this goes, hell, why not, we can always fall back on admins to fix our mess at the end. 

[Spike.]

Spoiler for Hiden:

[Bruce.]

To be honest I myself was planning on 1st of June to go in Angel Pine and talk with Mikal and Hubbe about some kind of truce between both groups. I had almost everything ready. I was gonna go solo as a SAPD Sergeant and unarmed to gain their trust. But with the shit that happened yesterday? I'm gonna end up sliced in parts now and then mailed to Drix on a box :P.  And I believe that if we would have agreed to that FLA would have been taking a good step towards their demands to have a independent country.
Anyway, about the trial time. I guess it's doable but yet there's up to HQ to decide. About the voting, oh please... everyone in this community how voting goes around... specially on this kind of situation. You get all your friends to go and vote yes and tada ... you won the voting stage.

On the other hand, might proposal might have some backlash due to Law Enforcements was jurisdiction everywhere, and they might claim what will happen if a criminal goes to your independent place with different laws? Considering the laws that were broken are on the other side, you will contact the appointed embassies of Angel Pine and find a solution, they might either give you the jurisdiction for a temporary time to capture the suspect, or they send their own forces. If they fail to do so, screw it, just leave it be and call it a day. OR maybe, set up a form of an agreement with some people and set up some of your actual people who would like to RP as cops in Angel Pine as I'm sure no one from FLA would like to be a cop. In order to ensure that the criminals do not enter their boarder, defend the boarder like you were doing at Flint's Bridge, and this goes for both groups.

I seriously would gladly do that only if I will have assurance that I will not be kidnapped, robbed, or end up hanged in the middle of Angel Pine by any FLA member cause I know the "grudge" they got on cops at the moment.
p.s. Expect people saying that I am a corrupted cop again.

On the other side people are taking this waaaay too personal. Guys, It's just a fucking game... we're all here to have fun and enjoy the gameplay... don't take everything personal...  like JDC would have said. [RPit].

[Mark_DeCaval]

Give them indepedence.