Unite.

[Luke]

No quite sure if you understand my words instead of showing your ignorance by calling out a "side" on this issue, there's no side, we need to stop putting the blame on to someone and collaborate as a whole to sort things out. Stop wasting your post count.


Suggestions:

• Admin reform: Demotions to those needed or removal if HQ sees them necessary.
• Be unbiased (admins): You didn't received rights to defend your friends, nor your group, your actions are the same to everyone, does not matter if you have to punish your own friend, he broke the rules, he gets the same treatment as someone else not mattering what it can be a criminal or a cop.
• Rewrite of rules: No more gray areas, let's take serious time to specify everything that is allowed and what is not.
• New scripts: Not much we can do to this but at least we can try to start releasing the rest of the things that were left in progress and that were promised some time ago. Most of the scripters are also admins, we need them to focus on script rather than being in game administrating, we already have enough members for that.
• Fix attitude: We all have been shit sometimes, players and admins, that way things are never gonna get solved. Dedication, respect, tolerance is what we need from both sides.
• Roleplay: Argonath always had many different styles of RP. Some people likes serious roleplay, others just wanna drive around or be with their friends having fun, that's something we can't forbid, is something we don't want to change, but if you really think that coming into the server with a gun and a sentence to start shooting is roleplay then you do might have to work on your skills.
• Script improvement: Listen to players and what they want, that's the reason things are being made afterall, to have them in the server actively playing the way they like to, some things might be considered others might not for x or y reason, but the least to say is that script shouldn't be having changes without the opinion of the community.

Cannot agree with this anymore, feel this has pretty much hit the nail clean on the head.

[eymas]

Part of the current administration is unfit to actually administrate.

We are aware of this fact, and my perception is because they are cornered with the pressure that's now upon them. The behavior they're given can influence them to repeat the same for one, and the complex incidents they have to take care of in-game are adding up.
Some staff members have been under evaluation because of recent events, and I hope things will not worsen any further.

It's the players fault though omg!!


On a side note it is sad to see the server in decline like this. It would be great if trucking could be back as soon as possible. I strongly believe that this is one of the scripts that could pull us out of this declination.

I am the idiot who sometimes uses that argument, and most of the time it's because of the way some scripts are being used by them. In example the arguments about heavy-air and RPGs et al. Much like others have mentioned, it may be a better idea to remove the sour apples instead of ditching the entire harvest (translation: To remove the abusing players instead of the whole script ergo ruining it for others) but if it appears to me that things continue to remain in a negative aspect I do feel compelled to go over to the worst-case scenario.

In regards to trucking, it would make a come-back in a more polished way as far as I have heard but we will have to wait for our development team to release it. If it will pull us out of the abyss, I doubt, but it would at least be a light in the darkness for a while.

On to the cute forms that have been made, I like the initiative.

Name Matthew
Point of improvement:
- More open development like when Teddy was here. Make a topic, roadmap or something where we can see what's priority, what not and etc..
- Better management over staff. Staff members should be able to control their temper, avoid sarcasm with players and remain professional.
- Drop all hatred on one another based upon someone's group / faction.

1: @Mikro should keep this up indeed.
2: We're holding a close eye on the team at the moment.
3: That's for everyone to work on.

I'm down.

Leon_Gvardia
Point of improvement: The Rules
-If it's not in the official rules, admins cannot ban for it. There are too many broad grey area rules based on comments made by Teddy in topics from 10 pages back, or things said by Gandalf in the "Ask Developers Topic." Write it down somewhere we can all see it.
-There was once a guide to new moderators giving them general guidelines on how to handle certain situations. There obviously needs to be another, and not just for new moderators, because as I've stated in another topic, one admin will often ban for something that another admin would kick for. The other day I saw two admins punished a guy at the exact same time - a ban first, then a kick right after. These days I am seeing people getting banned for things that people have never been banned before in my entire time of playing (such as metagaming) which makes playing here discouraging.
-If a new rule or interpretation of a rule has been created somewhere on the forums or otherwise, it needs to be clearly broadcasted for everyone to see. Players should not be expected to read every page of every topic in the SA:MP boards looking for "common sense."
-Admins need to stop working against us.

1: Know that we'd end up with a topic too long to read which is why some rules are merely branched off of the core rules stated in existing topics/dialogs. Even though the idea is sensible in a way, I believe it's far too much to do. Most of the floating rules are discussed before actually employing them because most are outdated/conflicting with newer rules.
2: It's still there. And we'd push it in their faces again.
3: Rules are indeed announced before being implemented, however I do think more thought needs to be put behind the potential scenarios and responses to those. One recent rule is still open to different opinions for one.
4: Hopefully, players can do the same. We all need to work together, rather than against. I know it's a cheesy thing to say but you can't deny it.

Name Hevar
Point of improvement:
Too much strict rules and stuff,,,,cant we just take it back like we had in RS4? Some old school feeling =)

Most of them have been put in place because of repeated events that grinded onto players, driving them away. And still we face this issue but differently. One thing I can promise is to prevent them from becoming TOO restrictive (albeit promises cannot be 100% guaranteed.)

Name Enzo Dispensa
Point of improvement: Rules, Player Knowledge.
- Add a roadmap like before.
- Make anew Rules topic, with ALL the details, trying to cover grey areas etc.
- Let players help you, some of us are very willing to help you, yet you decline our help putting stress on the entire server not yourselves
- Re-Balance Notoriety
- I am with this on some people, some staff members judgement is questionable, and I think it is time HQ got some new division to watch over them / Expand HQ Slightly
- I think we make criminal side have actual risk. I think if the scripting team added some kind of drug/weapon smuggling script, or a robbery script wtih paid Rewards with strict rules

Spoiler for Hiden:

Would need Notoriety level, Be launched by admins+ ONLY, require to spend time in the area/place you are robbing, also giving an alarm to the SAPD when the robbery commence,without Autosuspection, the higher the notoriety of all members the better the heist, only to be launched once every so many hours with at least 4 SAPD members online at the time

- Limit Metagaming+powergaming
- Remove /area and blips

I think this is the only thing we need addressing to be honest. Criminals eventually run out of things to do :P My Robbery Script is a bit of a copy from IV:MP while Smuggling from VC:MP(Argonath) So please don't hate as they both seem to work very well

1: Discussed before.
2: Don't think that is necessary, and as said before it'd be way too much work. Covering the gray areas we could do however but to rewrite the entire rules topic and adding ALL rules into it... It'd be longer than the time it took for the bible to be written. Sorry.
3: We accept community input, but what other "help" would you mean? If so you could always PM us suggestions or so.
4: Needs explanation just like above.
5: We're working on this.
6: Up to the dev team.
7: Our stance on meta/powergaming remains the same although it is evident we have noticed players calling for gunmen via skype for example, this could be an argument. Powergaming is basically included in our rules on forcing roleplay onto others already. Just remember we won't change to a serious server or something, the whole point of argonath is to have some freedom in your game.
8: I'll be honest. No thanks.

Name Sarmed Luciano
Point of improvement:
-As Hevar said too much strict rules if we do something wrong staff members need to teach us what we are doing wrong and what we need to do, but admins just /banned or /warn us, this is not a right way to teach.

-More than 20+ players are banned and HQ need to give a chance to come back again, yes i know HQ give 2 or 3 chances but atleast give 4 or 5 chances to improve us, as leon said "Admins need to stop working against us."
-I never seen any admins or moderator get banned or any warn, why, did he have 100% RolePlay skills?

1: Correct. As said we're looking to get our staff on the right track again.
2: Some players however have been given more than enough changes. Some of the banned players may be given another chance however, perhaps in time or without delay. I'll discuss this with HQ later on.
3: No idea what you are insinuating. But staff never use commands onto each other as that would get them fired rather quickly.

I will list out what comes immediately into my mind.

Notoriety. While the decrease in losses is great it doesn't make up for the fact that people will gradually lose notoriety for not trying to gain or maintain notoriety. It definitely makes us not log into the game just to have some fun or natural roleplay. People may try to log in as little as possible - When they are called for some important roleplay. Or when they have to maintain their notoriety. Gradual decrease has to go.

Considering some players higher than the others. (Read admins) In a recent unban request, a certain admin didn't roleplay as much as HQ (or perhaps the previous) expects the players to roleplay. The excuse? No time to type. The exact same excuse three players gave in their unban requests for very same situations. I am not saying such admins ought to be punished, but they are not setting an even remotely good example for the players. Similarly some admins won't stop shit talking on forums. Normal players doing the same get moderated or muted. These admins need to go.

Recent rule changes They aren't well though of and are killing the server.

1: The decrease in notoriety is quite notorious for upsetting a lot of players. I'll talk with Mikro for a proper solution.
2: Together with the other points for the staff team this'll be taken in the whole list.
3: Like I said, I too agree with some rules needing more thought behind them. The words "killing the server" however bear no weight.

Name: Ramo Hawk.
Point of improvement:
- Remove Bruce.
- Remove Marcel.
- Remove Peter.
Remove Mikro.

- Remove Ramo.

No, this is where we're able to speak freely. If we even said anything from this section in-game you'd ban every each of us.

Remember that the right of free speech gets revoked when you are being offensive in one way or another. Your post in general is something I'd punish for but I'm not a forum moderator.

Name Dusty
Point of improvement:
- Less stricter rules and less stricter staff(Like Hevar said)
- Train the staff on how to handle situations better
- Fix the problems on both of the sides, law and criminal, so that everything is balanced.
- Discuss about new scripts which would encourage RP and/or add more fun.
- Less stricter on ban appeals.

1: Would need to look into what is seen as "strict" by many. Feel free to send examples to me.
2: When staff does not know how to treat situations they would ask for input from fellow staff members or from HQ.
3: Easy to say but we do need to know what problems are there.
4: 
5: Banishments are the last resorts for staff members, they are used when a person has broken rules too many times and does not learn. Therefore we try to have banishments be messages for people to change their ways preferably forever. In a sense the word means you're permanently removed, but here they're mostly tempbans for weeks/months. Or years for some people. Even then HQ members still have the freedom to decide times themselves, or overturn it completely in case the ban was issued "too early" or on invalid grounds.

TL;DR: Bans are meant to be strict as a means of having people realize they need to improve their ways.

HQ listens to players and gives them what they ask for? They get more players and activity on the server.
HQ ignores and goes opposite of what the players want? Less players and less activity.

Let's remember that the people are the ones who make the server. Start acting like it, and the rest will fall suit.

Remember that we cannot always listen to the players and that we sometimes need to do the opposite. A lot of players ask for things to be removed while we still see reason in keeping it. Players ask for things to be added that are beneficial but we have to deny it because it goes against argonath's vision. Understand that as well.

for tenth anniversary, server leadership should give everyone one last benefit of the doubt and unban everyone

instant profit in player count so everyone plays with their friends and having the fun!!!11!1

While bringing back people who have disrupted the server plentiful of times, hacked accounts, annoyed everyone by hacking or breaking rules, going against order by sowing seeds of discord, and so forth... sounds like a very good idea.

All things have an end. Sadly, Argonath is no exception.

I would not be surprised if Gandalf pulls the plug this coming Thursday to mark the 10th anniversary and the last.

But I'd also not be surprised if he continues his current path of his "hands off" approach and let the community slowly crawl until it's dead with no activity. That is what happened to the community he and Aragorn was a part of before Argonath was born. I will not mention them by name but some old timers will know that certain MTA:VC server I'm talking about. Their website and forum is still up. I don't know about their servers, but their forum is a ghost town. Barely any posts there from this year.

Expect the same outcome in 2-3 years from now if the plug is not pulled earlier.

At one point I'd expect the community to either step away from their roots and into new territory, but perhaps the chance exists that Argonath will become a memory. We'll see what happens.

NameBruce
Point of improvement:
- Remove the option to spawn somewhere else on relog, it's a roleplay server not a stunt server. You should always spawn where you left. And when die you should spawn at nearest hospital.
- Remove the continues loose of notoriety every 10 minutes. It's basically something that killed the server...if it's not obvious enough.
- Remove /area. For the sake of roleplay this is not needed at all, if you want to find someone get people online and scout.
- The suspect system has to be fully replaced. This one makes us a cops and robbers server.
- Won't even go into the "remove blips" part because I know Gandalf doesn't approve it and without his approval it won't happen. Even tho it would generate more roleplays and more effort to do stuff.
- Add the possibility to jail at all the cells in the PD stations and not only one. It would look more RPish than placing 4 people inside a jail cell.
- Add the possibility to jail more then 90 seconds. Make it 3-4 or even 5 minutes.
- A new interior for the main police stations would be great. I do know Mikal started one but as he said before he lost motivation.

I'll add some more in the future, I had a list full of suggestions but I lost it when cleaned up my laptop so this is all I can remember at the moment.

I hope people are happy now that I got kicked.

1: Do have to agree with that.
2: I get it, I get it. I hope Mikro does too.
3: Players could always talk to each other to meet up somewhere, to be honest.
4: The same was said about the previous system (with orange names) so I guess this'll have to be taken into separate discussion.
5: I doubt removing blips would change anything in the first place. I wouldn't approve of the idea either.
6-7: Scripting team needs to look into it.
8: Mapping team may have to look into this (Do we still have one even?) Besides, what's wrong with it? 

Stop forcing your admin RP mentality down our throats, I don't give a flopping fuck where you came from who from your friends taught you to RP, everyone has their own understanding on how RP works and you should swallow your shit and accept that.

Argonath's whole premise on roleplay is that you need to be able to respond on different kinds of it, one may do it like really-serious roleplay servers or venues, and some do it on a really basic level. If you mean the idealistic views the staff propose, see them more as suggestions rather than commands. We try to keep the "roleplay within reasonable boundaries" statement true, for one, but perhaps it's something we'd need to look after.

You shouldn't kick any admin that is shit, there can't be situations that a 'shit' receives admin privileges and is an admin.

It's much better to teach people to improve, however if it's not possible then we have no other option. Certain admins have been good in the past but have degraded over time, especially now since we are being cornered with negativity, this seeps into the person and can cause him to turn sour along with the others. Hell, this has happened to us already and it has disappointed me gravely.

No quite sure if you understand my words instead of showing your ignorance by calling out a "side" on this issue, there's no side, we need to stop putting the blame on to someone and collaborate as a whole to sort things out. Stop wasting your post count.


Suggestions:

• Admin reform: Demotions to those needed or removal if HQ sees them necessary.
• Be unbiased (admins): You didn't received rights to defend your friends, nor your group, your actions are the same to everyone, does not matter if you have to punish your own friend, he broke the rules, he gets the same treatment as someone else not mattering what it can be a criminal or a cop.
• Rewrite of rules: No more gray areas, let's take serious time to specify everything that is allowed and what is not.
• New scripts: Not much we can do to this but at least we can try to start releasing the rest of the things that were left in progress and that were promised some time ago. Most of the scripters are also admins, we need them to focus on script rather than being in game administrating, we already have enough members for that.
• Fix attitude: We all have been shit sometimes, players and admins, that way things are never gonna get solved. Dedication, respect, tolerance is what we need from both sides.
• Roleplay: Argonath always had many different styles of RP. Some people likes serious roleplay, others just wanna drive around or be with their friends having fun, that's something we can't forbid, is something we don't want to change, but if you really think that coming into the server with a gun and a sentence to start shooting is roleplay then you do might have to work on your skills.
• Script improvement: Listen to players and what they want, that's the reason things are being made afterall, to have them in the server actively playing the way they like to, some things might be considered others might not for x or y reason, but the least to say is that script shouldn't be having changes without the opinion of the community.

1: We have plans on this already. Guess it's time to pin a date?
2: Yes please.
3: If its requested that much I'd propose we make this a group effort.
4: Wouldn't it be a better idea to focus on the community rather than the foundation at the moment.
5: Agreed.
6: Definitely.
7: Again, we can't listen to everything and sometimes we have to deny suggestions. But we do always take the opinion of all players into consideration.

Forward this to HQ please.

But I can read this topic 

After doing that however. I've seen that we are still in a state of doom and gloom, and we have had plenty of suggestions to improve and get us out of it. Only time will tell when we do, but remember that we are all in this together. Even if we have ideas of leaving this for dead, some of us still hold but a glint of hope in our eyes. I can only plead that people will stop fighting against each other, and instead sit at the table to discuss things in a formal manner. Should you be unable to, then take a break and step away from it. I know it isn't right to say but that is the truth.

I am still in the community to bring it back to a state of peace, otherwise I would have left long ago. Hope that we can leave with a salvaged treasure as the community meant much for us all, it's given us opportunities to improve in communication and/or skill, or just to be a world to relieve your stress in with an element of fun.

[Cofiliano]

Forward this to HQ please.

HQ needs a urgent reform more then any part of the Argonath. You can't start building a house from the roof, yet from the basement.

[Ramo_Hawk]

I am the idiot

Yes.

- Remove Ramo.

Many tried, many failed.

Remember that the right of free speech gets revoked when you are being offensive in one way or another. Your post in general is something I'd punish for but I'm not a forum moderator.

Guess that's why you're not a forum moderator. 

[Julio.]

HQ needs a urgent reform more then any part of the Argonath.

 

[CharlieKasper]

The words "killing the server" however bear no weight.

bear no weight.

9/200 on a Saturday evening isn't what someone would call alive either. The rules were rushed and must be put on hold and discussed properly.

[Jeremy.]

Do people really talk about "trucking" bullshit? How dumb can someone be saying this is the reason of inactivity in the server? This is more retarded than veteranslvl99topkek saying they're not playing anymore due to their real life. You didn't have it when you used playing here?

The reason is pretty simple, lack of motivation. How do you expect players be acitve on a server that rules are being made just for certain players? Obviously when normal players break it they end up being banned and when admins do it it's pretty legit and such a "RP" rule never existed.

What are we talking about?

[Adam]

The amount of bullshit and hatred is unbelievable between the players and other factions in the community,
its everywhere, and it'll always remain, a few factors increased this recently, which is why we're seeing Argonath as it is now.
Any problems within the administration team, rules, or script get fixed at last with proper communication.

If you want a change, start by changing yourselves first. All topics containing constructive ideas (about scripts or rules) unfortunately get ruined by those ignorant moaners, this is why you don't get an instant change of it by the HQ.

The lack of motivation isn't coming from those biased rules. Its coming from the players themselves.

*This post isn't meant to be dramatic, and i'm on no one's side, just cut your disgusting attitude and you'll enjoy your game play much more.

[Jeremy.]

The amount of bullshit and hatred is unbelievable between the players and other factions in the community,
its everywhere, and it'll always remain, a few factors increased this recently, which is why we're seeing Argonath as it is now.
Any problems within the administration team, rules, or script get fixed at last with proper communication.

If you want a change, start by changing yourselves first. All topics containing constructive ideas (about scripts or rules) unfortunately get ruined by those ignorant moaners, this is why you don't get an instant change of it by the HQ.

The lack of motivation isn't coming from those biased rules. Its coming from the players themselves.

*This post isn't meant to be dramatic, and i'm on no one's side, just cut your disgusting attitude and you'll enjoy your game play much more.

Is this normal for you? - http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=117461.0

Considering some players higher than the others. (Read admins) In a recent unban request, a certain admin didn't roleplay as much as HQ (or perhaps the previous) expects the players to roleplay. The excuse? No time to type. The exact same excuse three players gave in their unban requests for very same situations. I am not saying such admins ought to be punished, but they are not setting an even remotely good example for the players.

There's some good bullshit to read in that topic for you.

[Vomit.]

Everyone just gotta realise at the end of the day its a game don't let stuff that happens butt hurt you

also its human psychology for us humans to keep at something if were rewarded by doing something continiously, so obviously the biggest thing is making money, so I say more ways of making money = more motivated people are, more time spent in the server

[Adam]

Is this normal for you? - http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=117461.0

What got Timon denied is his attitude.

Anyways, I don't role play as a cop, but I don't really get what criminals don't understand that its very normal that you attempt to escape when you're confronted by cops? Even if you got no chance to escape its absolutely normal that you surrender.
I'm certain that this concept is wiped from the brains of most of the criminals here.
And Yes I can keep in mind that cops shouldn't /normally/ raid into ghettos and dangerous areas too. Which is also missing here.
Everyone, wants, to win.

[Ivan_Dzeba]

Starting with you.


 Grow some balls and tell your opinion and quit trying to defend people who don't need OR want being defended by a 14 year old.

I will always love the police and every authority.

The opinion I said was honest and true.

[Hevar.]

We need a new presudent!

#DownWithGandalfRegime

[Vladislav]

The lack of motivation isn't coming from those biased rules. Its coming from the players themselves.

Players need some sort of incentive if you want them to have any kind of motivation to play the game. Not to rehash the points already made in this topic, but a reform of HQ is definitely needed, or at the very least a change in the way certain matters are approached. The lack of players isn't due to the lack of roleplay, "play to win", quarrels between rival groups or anything else along those lines. From my personal experience, those aspects always existed in the server yet people still managed to work around it and have some fun.

I tend to not complain much regardless of what I think of some of the recent changes to the server, i understand sometimes when you make certain developments it's pretty much trial and error and you can't get it right every time.

It's the inconsistent application of the rules that's made me not want to play on the server, and how loosely defined the term "quality RP" has become. We're basically at a point where if any RP ends with someone dying, you're afraid that one of you will end up getting punished.

You can say that we're free to query admins as to what is and isn't allowed, but if I have to have a whole 10 minute Q&A with a member of staff where i map out how the whole RP is going to go down; then chances are i'm going to feel it's not really worthwhile.

[Ramo_Hawk]

I will always love the police and every authority.

The opinion I said was honest and true.

Are you the same person who kept speaking about Jesus Christ the other day?