Policy

[Jubin]

But how is your roleplaying affecting me in an unfair manner? You're talking about quality of roleplay here, not metagaming/powergaming.

So if I say that the same techniques like using /pm and /gm is fine by me and my friends say that it is fine by them and we use it in our roleplays it is not MG/PG, but when you use it, it is?

[Link9rly]

So if I say that the same techniques like using /pm and /gm is fine by me and my friends say that it is fine by them and we use it in our roleplays it is not MG/PG, but when you use it, it is?

...what? What the actual fuck are saying?

I'll put it in simple terms that are hard to confuse. Please don't twist them.:
Are you cheating the roleplay situation? Are you putting other players at a disadvantage through MG/PG? No? Not a problem.
Are you? That's a problem that 70.6% (as of now) want removed.

[TrotlDebilni]

So if I say that the same techniques like using /pm and /gm is fine by me and my friends say that it is fine by them and we use it in our roleplays it is not MG/PG, but when you use it, it is?

Are you a degenerate?

It does not matter WHO uses it as long as it doesn't affect someone else's roleplay, if it is not used to affect the ROLEPLAY situation it is not considered MG/PG.

If Lincoln or Tony(lol) logs in after 3 months and I /pm him "yo where you at?" it isn't Metagaming that affects anyone.
If Mario Soprano does .use cannabis seeds in main chat and I use that to my adventage and go raid his field that IS Metagaming because I used OOC information to assist me ICly.

As long as I don't use it to RUIN SOMEONE ELSE'S roleplay it isn't a rulebreak.

[Julio.]

You guys are arguing about different rules here.

In role-playing games, metagaming is an "out of character" action where a player's character makes use of knowledge that the player is aware of but that the character is not meant to be aware of.

Lincoln is not effectively proposing a "No metagaming" rule, he is proposing a "No metagaming in order to give yourself an unfair advantage in an RP situation"

Metagaming itself is using OOC information in ANY way. You need to add the "unfair advantage bit" yourself, that's not part of the definition.

[Link9rly]

You guys are arguing about different rules here.

Lincoln is not effectively proposing a "No metagaming" rule, he is proposing a "No metagaming in order to give yourself an unfair advantage in an RP situation"

Metagaming itself is using OOC information in ANY way. You need to add the "unfair advantage bit" yourself, that's not part of the definition.

Lovely. Honestly, you worded it better than I have. <3

[Jubin]

...what? What the actual fuck are saying?

I'll put it in simple terms that are hard to confuse. Please don't twist them.:
Are you cheating the roleplay situation? Are you putting other players at a disadvantage through MG/PG? No? Not a problem.
Are you? That's a problem that 70.6% (as of now) want removed.

That's the thing, I don't consider the methods that is used, cheating. So I allow those to be used to roleplay.

Also my apologizes to Cofiliano, if I have derailed the topic way too much. I think I have voiced my opinion and I am now out.  See you guys in game.

[Link9rly]

That's the thing, I don't consider the methods that is used, cheating. So I allow those to be used to roleplay.

Okay, welcome to being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian and arguing. Everybody else is level-headed and can agree to it.

[Julio.]

That's the thing, I don't consider the methods that is used, cheating. So I allow those to be used to roleplay.

Also my apologizes to Cofiliano, if I have derailed the topic way too much. I think I have voiced my opinion and I am now out.  See you guys in game.

Not derailed at all mate, you and Lincoln are just at opposite sides of the argument and the discussion you're having between the pair of you is both informative and constructive!

If the two of you were to RP together seriously, I would expect a little compromise on both sides though in order to try and make it an enjoyable affair, that's one of the beauties of this community, certainly in previous years we've tried not to carry an "elitist" card and keep our minds open to different RP styles. RPing a strict mafioso or FBI Agent would possibly require a stricter RP style, but if you're clearly RPing a corrupt agent or mafioso with a terrible sense of humour, it changes the dynamic a bit.

Flexibility guys 

Okay, welcome to being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian and arguing. Everybody else is level-headed and can agree to it.

I wouldn't say I *strictly* agree with it, as with the caveats it's not entirely different to now. We call it metagaming, OOC, IC, and all this fancy terminology, but the bottom line is: RP fairly, and to the bounds of the situation! If we have a group of players ingame that are able to do that without a rule, then that's what will keep the community fair and positive!

[Julio.]

What you're saying for the rule to be used for is fine Lincoln, but the part I'm weary of is... by introducing the "metagaming and powergaming" concept officially into the rules of Argonath, it leaves the door wide open for others to start enforcing the use of "(( ))" and other more serious RP tools. I'd like the idea of "choice" to be left with the player.

But if we could have some sort of confirmation that a rule along these guidelines would not result in us taking more steps in that "serious RP" direction, and we won't start having ban reasons like "No metagaming," then I would be in agreement of there being such rule.

[Cofiliano]

Also my apologizes to Cofiliano, if I have derailed the topic way too much. I think I have voiced my opinion and I am now out.  See you guys in game.

No need Jubin, you've been constructive the whole time, stating your opinion in a civilized manner and idea about the subject.


@ Julio, welll when you talk about no metagaming, we're talking about the abusage of it to gain advantage, I think every person who voted yes is aware of that.

[Link9rly]

We refer to it as MG and PG since that's the terminology we use to describe it on other RP communities. Just makes it easier for newcomers to understand it when coming from another roleplay server. However, "RP fairly" is a much simpler way to say it, but leaves some grey zones. I'm down with having variety as being the stereotypical NRG mafia is pretty boring. I'm an angry middle aged Scotsman on my main character, for example. I don't think that implementing "No metagaming in order to give yourself an unfair advantage in an RP situation" would hurt variety either. Honestly it seems like a nice little reminder to not be a dick about stuff.

As for OOC/IC, I don't think it'll hurt either way since, like I said, most people are already adhering to it either way. Kind of the same way our version of the MG/PG rule won't change much. It's more to clear up grey areas, especially since it has been occurring frequently as of late (referring to MG/PG).

Now, I don't think anybody asking for IC/OOC/PG/MG wants a strict realistic RP server. I, for one, just want it to be clearly written that public chat cannot be brought into a roleplay situation, or that PM isn't RP. This is also to help clear up grey areas.

[Cofiliano]

The thing is, Argonath already reached the medium roleplay standard, as in most of the people insist and wants to have a medium roleplay server, not serious nor light roleplay server.


as for OOC/IC, again, 90 percent of people use /em for out of roleplay chats during roleplays, so its something that's already implemented by the players, and there's no need to force it.

Tho on Argonath we called it out of roleplay and in roleplay, stated by Gandalf back in 2010

[Link9rly]

as for OOC/IC, again, 90 percent of people use /em for out of roleplay chats during roleplays, so its something that's already implemented by the players, and there's no need to force it.

Tho on Argonath we called it out of roleplay and in roleplay, stated by Gandalf back in 2010

Exactly what I'm saying. It's not changing much.  Just asking for it to be written down. We can keep calling it in/out-roleplay if we want but it's just alienating us as we're not using commonly accepted terminology like OOC/IC. We don't need a /OOC command. Just need to state that /l, /s, /cb, /ad and /em (used to describe things in third person) are roleplay commands and that /pm, and /p are non-roleplay commands in the rules.
Repeating myself again, it won't change much since most of us already adhere to it.

[Julio.]

The thing is, Argonath already reached the medium roleplay standard, as in most of the people insist and wants to have a medium roleplay server, not serious nor light roleplay server.


as for OOC/IC, again, 90 percent of people use /em for out of roleplay chats during roleplays, so its something that's already implemented by the players, and there's no need to force it.

Tho on Argonath we called it out of roleplay and in roleplay, stated by Gandalf back in 2010

That's funny, I use /em as mentioned by Lincoln, to describe the environment, I think people have only used /em for "out of roleplay" items since it has a few extra brackets in it... 

The only group I've seen use /p or the forum as IC is the FBI to be fair.

[Cofiliano]

/em primary usage is to describe the environment, but since the out of roleplay chat is lacking, people started using it for that as well, hence today almost everyone is doing it.