Discussion solely on the topic of how to bring back SA:MP server

[Brian]

@Brian - out of curiosity and a desire to understand alone, how would the community leaders expect someone who had a toxic/bad attitude or way of communicating to show that they changed? I felt time would help (since i believed that people mature over time) but I see where you are coming from when you say that an instance of good behavior doesn't mean they have changed (i have paraphrased, please pardon if misunderstood).

Reach out to us, show some sort of remorse, explain to us what made them get to the point where they'd perform attacks on the community or what caused their toxic behavior towards the community/ its members. They could also tell us why they'd like to return to the community or how they changed their behavior to become a better person. Some form of assurance that their behavior would not repeat itself. And in a perfect world an understand of how their behavior affected the community and how they got in to the spot they're in now. I wouldn't say its too much different than a normal unban request, the only difference is that there's no topic or section you can apply for one.

We tend to be quite forgiving and many of us in staff have been banned at some point in our past. But if someone continues to ban evade or continues to blame us for their own actions there's little we can do to help them out, the change has to come from within them and they'll have to step up for us to be able move forward together.

[Cutt3r]

Thank you Brian. I will definitely refer him and anyone else I know is banned for this, here. It's good to have complete clarity.

[Huntsman]

A lot of what is suggested is patchwork. Things that were tried to an extent before, and did not work. I can say on my own view: localising the server into one of the smaller towns would not make me come back. would rather put me off from joining instead.

I think that in general for Argonath to be revived there has to be a change in ownership. New, prominent, and progressive leaders need to rise up. Leaders, and their presence, was in part what kept the SAMP server active for all these years. New leaders who'd give a sense of direction, and hope for the players.

But the biggest factor is us - we just need to shut up and get back to playing. We can talk what needs to be done until we turn blue but the fact is that no-one is willing to do shit on their part. Just get into the server, just play. I think the issue here is that most people just don't want to play anymore. It's a decade old game almost. It has gotten boring. Most of us no-lifed the shit out of it in our teen years. It feel antiquated by now.

I still insist that Argonath moving on to GTA V and focusing all of its efforts and resources there is the way forward. It's new, it's flexible, it has an active playerbase. If we all would just stick to playing one, most recent server instead, we could then have some hope of revival. But this won't happen, because people are not willing to lose the positions they hold in the antiquated games .

Sorry, but my outlook does remain grim.

having abandoned SAMP at around 2017

I know this hurts to hear, as we all have respective sentiments attached to SAMP, or VCMP. But these are done for. I don't think that it's possible to revive a server for games that old.

.
I think your attitude sums up what and why pretty much.

I played the server for over ten years. OVER TEN FUCKING YEARS, Carl. And yet my opinion is now moot because I dont play it anymore.
I don't play it for a reason. Are you not interested to know why people don't play anymore? Because with this attitude, what is even the point of these discussions then?

You keep contemplating on how to bring the veteran players back or gain new ones, but when somebody tells you what is the reason they left in the first place, you dismiss them, laugh them off, and make fun of them. Way to go, genius. Amazing.

Not to mention that for the absolute majority of my playtime in Argonath you were inactive. Re-appearing for one month in a year and then disappearing again, only a forum post here and there reminding us of your presence. And now you have the audacity to be judgemental about activity? Really .

Nobody wants to play SAMP anymore because the only people left there are the likes of you - who only hear what they want to hear and dismiss any opinion that does not suit their agenda.

Sorry to break it to you, but if we compare our playtimes in SAMP,  my opinion actually has far more weight. I atleast was there to see why was it that people enjoyed the game in the first place .

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@Huntsman / Hammer

Just like you, our administrative staff and developers have free choice and they'll decide themselves which servers on the community they want to work or play on, we'll never force them to work on another project just because we like that project better ourselves. FiveM has several developers already and if anyone else is interested in working on the server they can reach out to the servers management.

I personally am also very excited for the Argonath Five:M server and you would be wise to remember the fact that this is a community and not just one server and that we're also not competing with ourselves, MTA:SA can exist along side of Five:M, just like SAMP existed along VC, MTA:SA, Stunt and IV at one point, as well as a wide variety of other game servers.

I'd also like to remind you both to have a look at the title of this topic, no one is forcing you to play on SA or respond to these topics with the same response over and over again. I also have a lot less fun on SA:MP than I used to but that doesn't change the fact I am deeply excited for MTA:SA or that there's still people that'd happily continue playing on SAMP once some of the issues we're currently struggling with are resolved.

Well, I understand your view, but I think it represents on of the main problems with Argonath - failure to understand that times changes, and that community needs to adapt.

I believe the reason it began to die out, outside of all the issues with the HQ/playerbase mentality, was that Argonath was stagnant. It introduced nothing new, failed to explore new ventures, but kept relying on SAMP to maintain its popularity. It was very late to jump on the IV:MP train, too late to acquire any substantial playerbase.

SAMP is old. While communities that still have a loyal playerbase might see success in keeping it playing, I do not think it is possible to "re-assemble" a player base for a game this old. People already have servers they play, where they have earned things, created some sort of standing. They probably don't want to invest into creating all of this anew for a game this old.

I normally would agree with you - it was great to have a community that had such different subcommunities: SAMP, VCMP and IVMP all were different in their own ways and it was fun to explore those differences. But times and circumstances have changed, and if Argonath wants to see any chance of becoming a thing again, I truly believe one game, and one server has to become its focus. And it only makes sense that it should be the most recent one with the biggest playerbase.

[TheGreasyChopper]

I played the server for over ten years. OVER TEN FUCKING YEARS

Not to mention that for the absolute majority of my playtime in Argonath you were inactive. Re-appearing for one month in a year and then disappearing again, only a forum post here and there reminding us of your presence. And now you have the audacity to be judgemental about activity? Really .

For someone who hasn't contributed to Argonath SAMP in any way whatsoever you seem to be quite invested in this.
I've been around for over a dozen years, yet I've only seen you on forums trashtalking SA:MP in almost every single discussion. You've said it yourself - you left back in 2017. You have no idea what the climate or the speed of the server were and are at the moment, yet you keep coming in like you know better than us. I'm fairly confident that my presence both In Game and on forums has been noticeable enough to leave a mark, considering my and my group's achievements. So don't you worry about my activity.

You're good at pointing out the obvious, but that doesn't get us anywhere. How about you show us how to do it, since you have the know how? Chip in with an idea every once in a while, show us how to fix it. 

[Khm]

This is exactly why the server won't regain its activity again, this is not the place where we compare how big our e-penises are, return back to the purpose of this thread it's okay to disagree but what's not okay is shitting on eachother because one thinks he's better than the other. Cut off the childish argument or else futher actions will be taken to keep this topic clean.

[TheGreasyChopper]

Cut off the childish argument or else futher actions will be taken to keep this topic clean.

I've kept on topic and have contributed. Last I recall people who only stuck around to throw shit at the server/community were to be removed. I have not seen any constructive idea or criticism from Huntsman for the past 3 or 4 topics. This is a topic on how the SA:MP server can be brought back to an active state, yet someone who left the server keeps talking on the players' behalf and being a general nuisance. All he's been doing for the past few years is throwing shit at our efforts at any given opportunity, without any contribution or arguments. You don't deserve it, I do not deserve it, none of us SAMP players deserve it.

 That's toxic and cancerous behavior that I honestly think has no place in our community.

Just to remain on topic, I'll repeat myself regarding on ways to bring back SA:MP:
* Revision and cleanup of the group system. Throwing out the old trash only to fill in with the new was done enough times, to be proven inefficient.
 * Remove the multi-accounting rule - let us have multiple accounts for different characters. I'm not aware if anything made it worse, but back in the day spotting ban-evaders was easy.
 * HQ should forget about the "it can be abused. denied." attitude for ideas. Stop antagonizing the playerbase. It is YOUR responsibility to ensure people do not abuse scripts, but rejecting essential updates because someone can be a retard is just laziness. (Applies to all servers, not just SAMP).
 * Interaction. Interaction. Interaction. Interaction. PLAYERBASE =/= ACTIVITY. Interact with eachother, don't grind the scripts. If you wish to drive a truck, fly a plane, grow weed and be left in peace - there's enough Singleplayer mods that allow you to do that. When joining SAMP(MP=MULTIplayer), you're there to play with others, not roam around on your own.
 * Transparency - HQ and players should be open about any discussion. I'm tired of the "we're working on more important things" from HQ/Server Leads. No you're not, you're busy, you're not interested, you can't be arsed, you don't think it's a good idea, you don't like the player who suggested it. Fine. It's all fine. But don't bullshit us, we've been around for too long. Sure, Nathan can be vocal about it and that's why he's everywhere, but what about the times when I reached out to HQ? Didn't even get a "thanks for your interest".
 * Stop expecting change to happen and requesting it, be the change. It can work out. If not, use it as a lesson.

 I've interacted with a few people throughout the last week and honestly had fun. The broken tax system is a perfect opportunity for some tax evasion and collection Roleplay. If you really are interested in reviving this - just head In Game, others will surely follow. I would appreciate if we had some active staff however, as people do tend to still break rules, regardless of the low playerbase.

[Nathan]

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[Badandy]

* HQ should forget about the "it can be abused. denied." attitude for ideas. Stop antagonizing the playerbase. It is YOUR responsibility to ensure people do not abuse scripts, but rejecting essential updates because someone can be a retard is just laziness. (Applies to all servers, not just SAMP).
 * Interaction. Interaction. Interaction. Interaction. PLAYERBASE =/= ACTIVITY. Interact with eachother, don't grind the scripts. If you wish to drive a truck, fly a plane, grow weed and be left in peace - there's enough Singleplayer mods that allow you to do that. When joining SAMP(MP=MULTIplayer), you're there to play with others, not roam around on your own.
 * Transparency - HQ and players should be open about any discussion. I'm tired of the "we're working on more important things" from HQ/Server Leads. No you're not, you're busy, you're not interested, you can't be arsed, you don't think it's a good idea, you don't like the player who suggested it. Fine. It's all fine. But don't bullshit us, we've been around for too long. Sure, Nathan can be vocal about it and that's why he's everywhere, but what about the times when I reached out to HQ? Didn't even get a "thanks for your interest".
 * Stop expecting change to happen and requesting it, be the change. It can work out. If not, use it as a lesson.

The first point you make has not been true since I became the developer for SAMP. You are 100% right and I'm still using this idea going into MTA SA. I will implement anything that doesn't violate game integrity or be impossible or doesn't fit the overall server. My scripted content will be made so players cannot abuse it. Interaction with the world and players are also my goal for MTA SA.

Your second point, I feel like we have been very open lately about plans for SAMP and MTA SA. We ran a survey which I plan to announce the results and plans we are going to do in a few weeks. SAMP will probably have no dedicated staff or developers after MTA SA releases and eventually will probably be taken down. There may be one last update to SAMP in the meantime but other than that, can't promise anything since the focus is on MTA SA. If you have any suggestions for a final update to SAMP, let us know but this won't be a revival update or anything massive. Bug fixes and fun additions will be considered.

Change is going to happen but the future isn't with SAMP. I will consider all previous and future SAMP ideas while working on MTA SA. Official announcement about SAMP and MTA SA in a few weeks.

[TheGreasyChopper]

When I think about it, it sounds like something that could fit well into RedM, the "FiveM" for RDR2.

That setting would fit Argonath's style of RP (and DM disguised as RP ).

If anyone knows how to work RedM, I'd be more than interested in something like this honestly

[Mario_Rinna]

If anyone knows how to work RedM, I'd be more than interested in something like this honestly

It's better than FiveM, IMO, because the setting forces a shift from the two usual "I am tony montana" and "I am also tony montana but policeman" gta archetypes. What is more enjoyable: fucking around in the WILD WEST, where you have no obligations whatsoever, or doing some stupid, monotonous "drive from a to b" jobs in GTA V, a game that, by the way, was supposed to be an action game, and not a tooth-grinding simulator of modern day peasantry down to the ugliest details.

The first point you make has not been true since I became the developer for SAMP. You are 100% right and I'm still using this idea going into MTA SA. I will implement anything that doesn't violate game integrity or be impossible or doesn't fit the overall server. My scripted content will be made so players cannot abuse it. Interaction with the world and players are also my goal for MTA SA.

Your second point, I feel like we have been very open lately about plans for SAMP and MTA SA. We ran a survey which I plan to announce the results and plans we are going to do in a few weeks. SAMP will probably have no dedicated staff or developers after MTA SA releases and eventually will probably be taken down. There may be one last update to SAMP in the meantime but other than that, can't promise anything since the focus is on MTA SA. If you have any suggestions for a final update to SAMP, let us know but this won't be a revival update or anything massive. Bug fixes and fun additions will be considered.

Change is going to happen but the future isn't with SAMP. I will consider all previous and future SAMP ideas while working on MTA SA. Official announcement about SAMP and MTA SA in a few weeks.

Too vague to make any conclusions; I just hope that you're making something different enough from everybody else's servers (not within Argonath, but within MTA and SA-MP). There have to be some unique features nobody else has; otherwise, why not download a ready-made server and tweak it? Will take a week, and not half a year.

Now, here's an ad of a Russian server in Russian (I trust that because of a different language used, this won't be removed) as an example:

Spoiler for Hiden:

This is 0.3DL (I think), but that's not the point; look how different it is. You look at it for 2 minutes, and you already see it stands on it own, it's unique, etc. Now, obviously, nobody demands the same amount of work, nor anything even remotely close to that; just consider how it's boring when there's LSPD HQ and City Hall in Pershing Square, same exact place where they were in RS3, RS4, maybe even RS2 (can hardly remember what was in it, lol).

I feel that to justify making a new server in 2022, you have to actively fight those rails, the same old formula. If the server is predictable (same jobs, same places, same commands), has too many vanilla mechanics (similarities to SP), then it's boring the moment it is released. That's just my opinion, though, maybe I am wrong and everybody wants to continue their sophisticated, 10 years in the making, personal role-play epic about how they were a police gangster—whose parents died when they were 12—and then through great effort and character development they managed to become a gangster cop instead.

[Cutt3r]

If it matters - SAMP had 3 new players join today thanks to a single reddit post. We now need people in-game to help them as I can't be in all the time. And naturally, they will leave if no one is there.

So please, pop in once in a while so that they would come in and get help. Even if you only have half an hour.

Thanks.

[Bas]

I think SA:MP is pretty much done for, for how many years have people tried to bring it back? And how successful has it been? I think they're currently on the right track to try something new with MTA, as MTA is still somewhat populated. Let's see how it pans out and let SA:MP be for what it is. If MTA doesn't work out in the end perhaps it's not so much the servers that are done for but the community as a whole. Looking at the current player base for most if not all argonath servers that could be the case as well. A couple of veterans preaching on the forums for people to come in-game to entertain three new players is probably not the way. It's an effort, just not the solution.

[Cutt3r]

Three is just a start. I strongly believe more will join.

And it's just a request, am trying to get more people here because even if I'm the only one, I do not believe that SAMP is dead. Many have tried before and tried well. But it's not dead. If it was, other servers wouldn't exist with the player base they have.

Not many are keen to be in game but if they could, things may actually work better and we would have a player base to move into MTA when the time comes.

[Huntsman]

<bunch of salty BS again>

I had an account since 2009, in RS4 I believe. I even remember the nick: Max_Pain. . The account has changed since.

I have provided more than enough insight, reasons, and possible solutions. It is not my problem you insist on ignoring whatever you I say and keep bringing up shit about my activity. And the last login is probably going to remain in 2017. Because of people like you :>.

I have contributed more than enough in my time. I don't remember you contributing to the server in any way back 2010-2016 though. Oh yes, the biker gang that was consistently inactive, made to exist once a year.

Again, you can't wish for former players to be back and then give them shit at the same time. Make up your mind.

Yes, I am invested, because it was a place I once loved and no-lifed in. It was a big part of my childhood and I hate to see it go.

Bas seems to put my thoughts together well, only that I disagree on the MTA solution, and prefer people focus on GTA V.

I think SA:MP is pretty much done for, for how many years have people tried to bring it back? And how successful has it been? I think they're currently on the right track to try something new with MTA, as MTA is still somewhat populated. Let's see how it pans out and let SA:MP be for what it is. If MTA doesn't work out in the end perhaps it's not so much the servers that are done for but the community as a whole. Looking at the current player base for most if not all argonath servers that could be the case as well. A couple of veterans preaching on the forums for people to come in-game to entertain three new players is probably not the way. It's an effort, just not the solution.

[Kessu]

People who say we should only focus on GTA V, it's not going to happen.

We won't have 3 CLs, don't even remember outright how many DLs we have right now and all scripters be aimed towards one server. It wouldn't help V server at all, not to mention stepping over everyone who have been involved with the V server development.

Warren has GTA V development under his control, Brian is mostly focused on SA and helps out with GTA III and I hop around based on where I'm needed. That's mostly in VC 

We have the resources to focus on multiple servers to have them be developed and what not, so we'll continue to do that.


As for you guys airing your dirty laundry, stop it. We don't care about how you feel about each others. Keep the focus of the topic on the server and not your personal opinions about the people talking about it.

Keep on suggesting things, we're still listening and the doors are wide open for ideas regarding MTASA, SAMP and everything else within the community.