Discussion solely on the topic of how to bring back SA:MP server

[Nathan]

.

[Kowalski.]

Mark my words, this will be the reason why Argonath dies.

Remove the focus from six things (III:MP, SA:MP, MTA:SA, VC:MP, Minecraft, IV:MP + over 13 Discord servers) and focus all energy on only one really great product (my vote is on V:MP). Down the line, explore the option of enhancing the other ones WHEN we have the player count and the resources.

I'll outline my response in point form to cover my bases.

1 - FiveM:

Argonath FiveM has a team behind it, spearheaded by Warren. However, even if Argonath FiveM were to release tomorrow, it would exist in a very vast sea of roleplay servers that wouldn't just happen to bring in a whole bunch of players right off the bat. Why Argonath over the 500 other servers out there? Before you say "Argonath is a bigger name" or something along those lines, I imagine some would consider it to be a complete joke at this point. I can't see that working out too well, not standalone. Plus, it would limit the community to players who only have access to GTA V and PCs capable of running it. I know it sounds ridiculous in 2022, but there are people in less well-off circumstances out there.

Realistically, what is the point in "everyone focusing on FiveM" when the community we currently have pretty much knows of FiveM's existence and would likely come to play anyway? We are not a huge community at this point, plenty of people are well aware of FiveM across the community. Having the other servers open is not a loss. Plus, people like different roleplay styles too. Why should we restrict the community to one style of roleplay that some may like, and others may dislike? That's not gonna bring in more players, if anything, could very well be the contrary.

2 - III:MP:

Argonath III:MP is an initiative that would appeal to a new client and aim to bring in players who enjoy retro gaming to the community. By proxy, I'm sure some of the III:MP playerbase that we do end up with would explore the rest of the community, and maybe also start playing on FiveM. However, GTA V standalone isn't a single path forward, and to try to depend on it entirely is literally repeating history with how Argonath prioritised SA:MP, where did that get us?

Newsflash, not everyone likes GTA V.


Argonath lost activity for many reasons, however, focusing merely on FiveM is useless. Not everyone appeals to GTA V alone, and not everyone can even run it. Revitalizing the community is important, and doing it through fresh initiatives are what matters.

FiveM is one of them. MTA:SA is another. CitizenIV is a fresh start for IV, which never really realized its true potential. III:MP is one more to add to the server portfolio - bringing to life a project that never came to fruition on LU:MP.

So, to sum it up, focusing only on FiveM is absurd, not everyone likes GTA V nor can everyone run it. To assume otherwise is at best silly, and at worst delusional. We have nothing to lose by having teams dedicated to new projects that will only serve as value-add to the Argonath community.

There is no focus, no mission. Just a team of community leaders and division leaders with everyone pulling the blanket in their direction and nobody is willing to change nor listen to the suggestions provided. Instead, things will be done as they always have been done. The players have listed great suggestions but instead, none of them will be taken into action. But guys, guess what? "The doors are wide open" so you should feel good about having the ability to say something. In the past, you would have been community banned! You are so, so lucky to be here. (sarcasm)

I don't know what's swayed your opinion in this direction or the backstory of what happened with you and MTA:SA, but I can tell you from first-hand experience that you're incorrect. I approached the community leadership to start Argonath III:MP, and they were very approachable. They gave us the green light and autonomy over our project, myself and Gruia running the show as we see fit, with them available for advice and assistance, which they have provided plenty of. The doors are wide open - I've had the freedom to speak out against people, and I haven't been punished for it or suppressed from holding my views. Civility doesn't cost anything but is a major value-add. I'm sure you know what I'm speaking of, but one of Argonath's main competitors has such a terrible atmosphere that one of the owners quit. What does that tell you?

If the Community Leaders were "pulling the blanket in their direction", would we be given full autonomy over how we decide to run III:MP? I imagine not. Would the transition to MTA:SA be a thing? I imagine not.

If this community was as you describe it to be, then I can't imagine III:MP would even be here. Myself and Luca (Gruia) aren't community hotshots or BFFs with the CLs. If anything, I've had plenty of disagreements and even arguments with them in the past. However, we all just want a better community, and we all know civility is a major part of achieving it. None of us are perfect. We all make mistakes. However, it doesn't help to point the finger and suggest unrealistic prospects that would likely do more harm than good in the current circumstances.

Just play Argonath, just take part in whatever you enjoy, V:MP, III:MP, whatever. If you really want to do something, come up with a plan, pitch it and stick to it. Take part in anything you like, but stay true to what you believe in and stay true to what you enjoy in the community. It's really not that hard. Matter of fact, I'll simplify it even more.

Just do whatever you enjoy doing on Argonath RPG.

[TheGreasyChopper]

It wouldn't help V server at all, not to mention stepping over everyone who have been involved with the V server development.

Warren has GTA V development under his control,

We have the resources to focus on multiple servers to have them be developed and what not, so we'll continue to do that.

I'm sorry, but where are these developers? I understand that there are less than a 100 people still active throughout the entire community, but per the information I was able to find in the V:MP section of forums, it shows that we have 3 developers there. The last update I saw regarding that would be:

Let's get straight to it. It was a bit optimistic to get to an alpha stable build from the ground up in 1 year and at this stage we are unlikely to release to the wider community for at least 6 months.

Which was exactly 6 months ago. Now, the point here is not FiveM, MTA, VC:MP, it is about SA:MP. But this pretty much backs up my initial point - lack of transparency and frequent updates. And empty promises and plans. Now, as a community is built by the players, I believe it is in our hands to get things going. But this lack of any input from Community HQs is offputting.

Big plans, big ideas, "this next one's gonna be the real one forreal, promise". Now while I do believe Andy's intentions are 100% pure and for the good of our future, but can we start seeing some progress? Do you really need WEEKS to review and assess the survey data for MTA:SA? Did hundreds magically show up to chip in with their answers? 

You need to pick your shit up. It is obvious you keep eyes on these kinds of topics, you moderate them and step in when something goes south. But for the love of Sauron, SHOW us the results of these topics. I've already managed to meet a few of the players involved in these topics IG and played with them for a few hours throughout the last week.

Why is Cutt3r, a veteran player, the only one going around advertising the community? Why is the Argonath Facebook page dead? Why haven't we looked for a few twitch streamers to boost interest? What was done in the past three months from Development of each of these servers? There have been 0 changelogs posted for ANY of our servers in 2022. I understand JDC's missing due to RL priorities, but he's been AWOL for ages now.

I'm not nobody's boss to demand things like this, but I'm tired, guys. I love this place, I've not been involved in any other community throughout these years that I stuck around to. Do you even want to keep this going, or are you just waiting for player interest to die out completely so you can do your own thing? If that's so than just say it - resign. You have the killswitch - pull it. But please don't throw sand in our eyes in an attempt to maintain whatever order there is. We're on life support, so either tell us what surgeries you can do, how you've been treating the patient, or simply pull the plug and let the proverbial patient die peacefully.

Edit:

Not everyone appeals to GTA V alone, and not everyone can even run it. Revitalizing the community is important, and doing it through fresh initiatives are what matters.
So, to sum it up, focusing only on FiveM is absurd, not everyone likes GTA V nor can everyone run it. To assume otherwise is at best silly, and at worst delusional. We have nothing to lose by having teams dedicated to new projects that will only serve as value-add to the Argonath community.

100% agree. I recently got a new PC and I'm glad I can get GTA:V running properly again, but I have no interest in FiveM as a client, I prefer RageMP. FiveM is currently only popular due to the amount of voice-based roleplay servers on Twitch and Facebook gaming, which I have a strong dislike for. I prefer the text based roleplay that RageMP offers.

Unlike SA:MP/MTA:SA and VC:MP/MTA:VC the compatibility between RageMP and FiveM is not ideal, meaning you can't really be active on both clients. Players play on other servers as well, the majority of the SA:MP roleplay community(All servers, including ours and others) has moved to GTA World, which nets over 500 players on a daily basis. Can you really compare this to the most popular FiveM Roleplay server No Pixel with it's 200 playercap? While there are plans for new RageMP RP servers, there are quite a few of them, compared to the endless amount of FiveM RP servers. It is much easier to shine bright and stand out within a few servers than in a sea of mediocrity.

[Badandy]

Big plans, big ideas, "this next one's gonna be the real one forreal, promise". Now while I do believe Andy's intentions are 100% pure and for the good of our future, but can we start seeing some progress? Do you really need WEEKS to review and assess the survey data for MTA:SA? Did hundreds magically show up to chip in with their answers? 

You need to pick your shit up. It is obvious you keep eyes on these kinds of topics, you moderate them and step in when something goes south. But for the love of Sauron, SHOW us the results of these topics. I've already managed to meet a few of the players involved in these topics IG and played with them for a few hours throughout the last week.

It takes weeks to make plans based on data, yes. There are internal discussions that you aren't part of and I won't tell you every time I shit either. My nephew was also just born unexpectedly soon so I had to help with that. Two weeks is nothing to make a plan for a new server along with discussions with people and also balancing my full time job. If you want this done any faster, it won't happen and if you want action to be done, you need to be patient. If you want shit now, you aren't getting it from me. Also this isn't a fucking business. Do something else while plans and announcements are handled. Two weeks isn't alot of time. Development is going to take alot longer than that so buckle up but I'll keep you updated along the way.

[JayL]

Mark my words, this will be the reason why Argonath dies.

[thesis]

Remove the focus from six things (III:MP, SA:MP, MTA:SA, VC:MP, Minecraft, IV:MP + over 13 Discord servers) and focus all energy on only one really great product (my vote is on V:MP). Down the line, explore the option of enhancing the other ones WHEN we have the player count and the resources.

It is rather in FiveM and co. that one should tread carefully. Have you missed the launching of gta+ subscriptions? Do you seriously think that Take-Two will just sit and pick on its nose when, a few quarterly reports down the road, someone starts questioning why the hell they let third-party software offer competition to their paid online gameplay?

I find it woefully inadequate to look for parallels with Argonath in big business. NGOs, community initiatives, scientific paper proposals—even anarchist experiments would be better, IMO. When has Argonath even been managed like a business?

I invite you to think twice before going around selling GTA V as THE solution to the problem in Argonath just because it's the latest stuff around.

[Kessu]

Mark my words, this will be the reason why Argonath dies.

There is no focus, no mission. Just a team of community leaders and division leaders with everyone pulling the blanket in their direction and nobody is willing to change nor listen to the suggestions provided. Instead, things will be done as they always have been done. The players have listed great suggestions but instead, none of them will be taken into action. But guys, guess what? "The doors are wide open" so you should feel good about having the ability to say something. In the past, you would have been community banned! You are so, so lucky to be here. (sarcasm)

Our focus is pretty clear, it just doesn't align with yours. We don't intend to make this community a place where you can buy yourself to be ahead of others or buy yourself a rank. That's something that past HQs clearly attempted and failed, case in point you were in charge.

We listen to suggestions and based on those suggestions we're going for MTA:SA while taking in the feedback from people who know the platform better, for example JayL and Mario_Rinna. We also took in the feedback from the survey, badandy is working on the topic to make the data easy to read and to (from what I've understood) also provide some plans regarding what kind of server it will be. We also added Thom as a SA:MP moderator recently based on his abilities and possible future prospects that he will work on with the rest of the administration. This is far different approach from "what has been done before".

You'd know that we listen to feedback a lot if you didn't ragequit every chat each time someone even remotely says anything against your ideas, including the likes of paying money to get ingame benefits 

Don't believe me? I'll bring up a historical example: Apple made the mistake of firing Steve Jobs in 1985, who was an asshole to the people he worked with but had a vision and knew how to lead. They replaced him with John Scully (dude from Pepsi), and later on with two other CEOs, each without a proper direction. Want to know what happens when you bring a replacement with no single vision? A bunch of bloat with many product lines that didn't fit the overall picture. Everyone was building what they wanted. This resulted in further marketshare loss and a complete decline to the point where in 1996, Apple was weeks away from bankruptcy.

The story goes that Apple decided to purchase NeXTSTEP to get Steve Jobs to come back. Immediately after, Steve fired board member(s) and canceled 70% of the product lines. In first year, Apple made a profit of $309 million and is the behemoth it is today.

Gaming community is not a business even remotely similar to Apple. We do not operate to gain profit. We operate in order to have a place where you can come in, relax and take some time off from the shitshow that is real life.

History doesn't repeat but it certainly does rhyme, no matter the scale. I don't like being a doomsayer but if no changes will be made, we're on a free fall of death as a community.

We're not a dead community, it's just dead based on imaginary standard you try to hold the community to. Yes, we do not have 100+ player server anymore. That means we're dead? No it does not. The community is not one server, it is the people. That's what you clearly don't understand and why you're out here complaining about shit you have no clue of and talk out of your ass just out of despite.

Remove the focus from six things (III:MP, SA:MP, MTA:SA, VC:MP, Minecraft, IV:MP + over 13 Discord servers) and focus all energy on only one really great product (my vote is on V:MP). Down the line, explore the option of enhancing the other ones WHEN we have the player count and the resources.

I'll remove focus from reading your bullshit to be honest.

III:MP people have no interest nor care to work on GTA V server.
VC:MP people have no interest nor care to work on GTA V server.

You get it? Of course you don't because "dEaD cOmMuNiTy".

You have severe case of tunnel vision and it's clearly showing. Take a step back, open your fucking eyes and start thinking logically and within the realms of reality.

Your help in the group chat with badandy and Brian was greatly appreciated until you decided to throw a tantrum like a 3 year old who didn't get candy on a wednesday. Guess what, we still didn't throw the ideas you already gave away. Instead we just focus on working with a team who isn't acting like a goddamn child and complains for a living.

It wouldn't help V server at all, not to mention stepping over everyone who have been involved with the V server development.

Warren has GTA V development under his control,

We have the resources to focus on multiple servers to have them be developed and what not, so we'll continue to do that.

I'm sorry, but where are these developers? I understand that there are less than a 100 people still active throughout the entire community, but per the information I was able to find in the V:MP section of forums, it shows that we have 3 developers there.

VC:MP has 2 active developers, one a little less active and one who doesn't actively script at all but is working as a system administrator for us. VC:MP also has 2 leaders working on it with the entire administrative team being involved in the development.

SA:MP has 1 developer with a support group of a few people to bounce ideas off of and with ability to do some slight adjustments. Staff is involved in the development of MTA:SA quite a bit to mold the general idea of the server, because we do not intend it to be copypasted SA:MP server.

GTA V has 3 developers, one of them being community leader and a division leader with a good, active HQ and staff to work with them.

III:MP has 1 developer working on it and 2 "newbie" HQ members who ask the CL team for advice when they need it.

Only Chase out of all of them are involved with more than 1 server, and his main focus is GTA V. Rest are focused specifically on their own respective servers and adding them to another project they have not been involved with in any way will not benefit anyone or anything.

Big plans, big ideas, "this next one's gonna be the real one forreal, promise". Now while I do believe Andy's intentions are 100% pure and for the good of our future, but can we start seeing some progress? Do you really need WEEKS to review and assess the survey data for MTA:SA? Did hundreds magically show up to chip in with their answers? 

Most of the progress will happen behind the curtains. Badandy is already working hard enough to give you guys a server from his free time. We don't expect him to throw his entire life in to developing a server, it's a hobby at best to work on a server, not a job. And before you even think about paying the developers, we all saw how that worked out with Teddy in the past  Ain't happening again.

You need to pick your shit up. It is obvious you keep eyes on these kinds of topics, you moderate them and step in when something goes south. But for the love of Sauron, SHOW us the results of these topics. I've already managed to meet a few of the players involved in these topics IG and played with them for a few hours throughout the last week.

We barely moderate these topics at all. In fact, no one has made any moderation acts in this topic for example. We just force you guys to keep it civil instead of going on the side of toxic arguments, because that does not belong in this community. It might've been allowed in the past during certain HQs, but we will not tolerate it.

Why is Cutt3r, a veteran player, the only one going around advertising the community? Why is the Argonath Facebook page dead? Why haven't we looked for a few twitch streamers to boost interest? What was done in the past three months from Development of each of these servers? There have been 0 changelogs posted for ANY of our servers in 2022. I understand JDC's missing due to RL priorities, but he's been AWOL for ages now.

Cutt3r advertises the community because he was willing to do something instead of just continuing to chat around the forums. I personally never have advertised the community outside of the videos I've made from VC:MP and I will never do more than that. Best kind of advertising is the community itself showing off what they've done in the server, and when no one plays there's nothing to advertise. Simple as that.

I don't know nor care about facebook page, not part of any social medias myself.

Twitch streamers do not advertise a damn thing without being paid for it. And asking anything else would be greedy and quite honestly fucking rude. Entitlement to the max.

VC:MP server is making a new script from scratch that is being tested, there will not be any news about it nor any changelogs that you can see. The entire server and it's systems will be tested within administrative team and released once fully ready to the public.

JDC will be removed from his position should we fail to reach him within reasonable time.

I'm not nobody's boss to demand things like this, but I'm tired, guys. I love this place, I've not been involved in any other community throughout these years that I stuck around to. Do you even want to keep this going, or are you just waiting for player interest to die out completely so you can do your own thing? If that's so than just say it - resign. You have the killswitch - pull it. But please don't throw sand in our eyes in an attempt to maintain whatever order there is. We're on life support, so either tell us what surgeries you can do, how you've been treating the patient, or simply pull the plug and let the proverbial patient die peacefully.

The fact you even say this shows how little attention you've given to anything we've done and said in the past couple weeks alone. We're working our asses off to provide you guys updates, quite honestly almost fully transparent communication and all we're getting for it is complaints about how we're not doing anything ??????


Fact of the matter is we're doing the best we can with the time we have, but we ain't going to put our lives on hold nor do we expect anyone else to do so just to make a server.

Development takes time and the community was left in the fucking shit after several previous HQs ran it to the ground despite our warnings that it will happen. We're here to pick up the pieces and see what we can do with it. It's not going to be a particularly fast or smooth recovery. But we will work on recovering without the cost of toxic shitshows left and right which is one of the reasons the community is where it is today.

[Jeremy.]

Make Argonath great again.

[Khm]

Last time we hurried on development and releasing scripts, RS5 happened. Development projects go thourgh several phases, the first phase which is phase 0 (the one we're in now with Badandy and CLs collecting info and brainstorming for those that don't know) should be long enough so the development and testing phases take a shorter time. If this critical phase is rushed, terrible consequences will fall upon the project.

[Nathan]

.

[Khm]

Yeah, that's not true. There was no hard timeline to release RS5 nor was there an issue with player count. RS5 caused majority of the issues with people being forced to start over. Then, further resets hurt everyone's want to continue being active.

You clearly weren't there, the script was incomplete and full of bugs.
About player count, it was dropping rapidly in between october and december 2013 during RS4 itself, again you probably weren't there to witness it.

For the final time, go back to discussing solely on the topic of how to bring back SA:MP server. If you got other suggestions for other divisions take them to their respective threads.

[Nathan]

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[Brian]

Big plans, big ideas, "this next one's gonna be the real one forreal, promise". Now while I do believe Andy's intentions are 100% pure and for the good of our future, but can we start seeing some progress? Do you really need WEEKS to review and assess the survey data for MTA:SA? Did hundreds magically show up to chip in with their answers? 

Do you expect things to just appear out of thin air? Andy made the survey so that we could get feedback from the players, see their interest and what they'd like.
Now Andy, together with myself and the staff team, but mainly Andy  is working on a draft feature list and vision for the community, so that we can continue involving you and collect more feedback, isn't that exactly what you and Nathan want?

If you want more people to work on the community or projects within the community, maybe its time to start treating others a bit better and actually give them an environment that's enjoyable to be part of. Do you know how demotivating it is as a developer or HQ member when people keep repeating the same nonsense over and over but when you reply to them they just ignore you and repeat the same complaints (That often add nothing to actually improving things).

You need to pick your shit up. It is obvious you keep eyes on these kinds of topics, you moderate them and step in when something goes south. But for the love of Sauron, SHOW us the results of these topics. I've already managed to meet a few of the players involved in these topics IG and played with them for a few hours throughout the last week.

If people actually kept on topic and read what was being said by others and actually responded and discussed things constructively with eachother you wouldn't need us to "show you the results" because we are actively part of the discussion.
But unfortunately in a topic that's aimed solely at the future of the SA server, people feel the need to say how we should close the server, and focus on another server. Or feel the need to keep saying how the server/ community/ platform is dead. Or have fights between one another because people don't agree with each other. And that's even after being asked several times to keep on topic, stop fighting or being explained that the devs and staff choose their own paths and that we or the community does not decide what they should do or say.

Why is Cutt3r, a veteran player, the only one going around advertising the community? Why is the Argonath Facebook page dead? Why haven't we looked for a few twitch streamers to boost interest? What was done in the past three months from Development of each of these servers? There have been 0 changelogs posted for ANY of our servers in 2022. I understand JDC's missing due to RL priorities, but he's been AWOL for ages now.

Because he wants to? He feels he can help improve the server with it and he has the spare time to do so. There's been other people in the past, regular players but also staff that have worked on advertisement for the servers because they enjoy it and don't mind maintaining it.

The Argonath facebook page is also not dead, people have regularly approached me to ask for the ability to moderate the page and post advertisements, it was mainly used by GTA V and GTA IV. Facebook reach isn't that great and a lot of people have stopped using Facebook (regularly), myself included. It tends to have periods of higher activity when certain servers show interest in advertising more.

Advertising using Twitch on SAMP is fairly hard to do, text based RP tends to not bring a lot of traffic (because it requires constant attention to know whats going on.) and Argonath SAMP is also not that viable for it because of its player base. A lot of players, yourself included have unfortunately started using unwelcome terms in the server that could get people that would advertise our servers on Twitch banned. We also set up several Twitch streams for numerous servers over the years but there was not that much interest (both in viewership as well as people streaming the content). We've also had people that just enjoyed streaming and decided to stream their Argonath experience, it's free to stream on Twitch and anyone that wants to can do it.

I'm not nobody's boss to demand things like this, but I'm tired, guys. I love this place, I've not been involved in any other community throughout these years that I stuck around to. Do you even want to keep this going, or are you just waiting for player interest to die out completely so you can do your own thing? If that's so than just say it - resign. You have the killswitch - pull it. But please don't throw sand in our eyes in an attempt to maintain whatever order there is. We're on life support, so either tell us what surgeries you can do, how you've been treating the patient, or simply pull the plug and let the proverbial patient die peacefully.

Did you not read anything we have said? And for the love of god, this is a topic on the future of SA we are literally giving you plans on what we'd like to do in the future, how on earth can you take that as we want to pull the kill switch? You just said you love the community but you want it killed in the same sentence. You're just assuming things even though you have the answers right in front of you, you just don't want to see them.

100% agree. I recently got a new PC and I'm glad I can get GTA:V running properly again, but I have no interest in FiveM as a client, I prefer RageMP. FiveM is currently only popular due to the amount of voice-based roleplay servers on Twitch and Facebook gaming, which I have a strong dislike for. I prefer the text based roleplay that RageMP offers.

Unlike SA:MP/MTA:SA and VC:MP/MTA:VC the compatibility between RageMP and FiveM is not ideal, meaning you can't really be active on both clients. Players play on other servers as well, the majority of the SA:MP roleplay community(All servers, including ours and others) has moved to GTA World, which nets over 500 players on a daily basis. Can you really compare this to the most popular FiveM Roleplay server No Pixel with it's 200 playercap? While there are plans for new RageMP RP servers, there are quite a few of them, compared to the endless amount of FiveM RP servers. It is much easier to shine bright and stand out within a few servers than in a sea of mediocrity.

That's just wrong, FiveM is preferred as a client by many because of its AI implementation, as well as the fact its based off of single player. Voice comms is a great addition for many (especially to medium-serious RP servers that already used voice for things like government communication) and really enhances the RP experience for those that enjoy it. I've also personally had a much more fun experience on NoPixel than that I did on GTA World as the RP just felt a lot more vibrant, but am still a big fan of text based RP and both platforms bring their own appeal. Most of the people that I know that do play on FiveM servers don't actually watch any RP livestreams.

I've also used both RageMP and FiveM at the same time and rarely have had any issues (most came from my own single player modding). NoPixel is also currently focused mainly as a content/ streamer server so can't really be compared to GTA World. Not to forget mentioning that they have several additional servers (Whitelist, public and numerous recently added non-English servers). They're also working on a RedM server.  But now I am just going off topic myself.


And after all of this I'm still not even sure what you and Nathan want. Nathan approached us wanting to improve SAMP, now he wants to close it.
You say you love the community,  but say we should pull the kill-switch.

You both claim we're not transparent, yet we're here answering the questions you have and filling in the community where we can (yes we don't always have the answers ourselves that's why things take time sometimes so we can get you the answers or information you deserve)
You complain about us taking our time so that we can get something presentable, but then you'll also complain when we give you something half assed. Do you want us to be like Nathan where we decide we want to save the server, and then close it down within a 2 week timeframe?
We give you both the chance to help the server or roleplay the things you want to roleplay and then you don't, yet you still point fingers and shout at others.
At some point you'll have to start taking a step back and actually look at what's going on, the answers you've been given and if what you are saying actually makes sense. Yes, we're not perfect and we don't claim to be, we also do not claim the omnipotent. Yet we're still here trying our best, involving the community,  opening dialogue and giving people chances. As well as making sure people still have a place to call Argonath where they can come and play video games with their friends, even if that place might be imperfect.
You don't have to agree with everything we do or say but in the end we're in this together and we'll do much better putting our shared knowledge together than constantly arguing over trivial things that will likely not get things anywhere as in the end most people that reply on this topic will actually want SAMP and Argonath to be a successful and a place we can all enjoy together.

Administrator Comment

And as a final note, I am getting tired of the people just in here to say we should shut down all servers and focus on one. For the final time, devs and staff choose which server they want to work on just like you choose with one you want to play on. Shutting down parts of the community will only lower the player and staff counts further and will add nothing positive to the community whatsoever. This topic is aimed at San Andreas (SA:MP/ MTA:SA) and how we can improve the experience for players that want to play on these platforms. Anyone that still feels the need to focus on topics outside of this will have their posts removed from this topic.

[Nathan]

.

[Badandy]

If we're moving to MTA:SA, not really a point to having this thread. Perhaps start a new thread on why the move to MTA:SA makes sense and how it'll benefit the community.

That plan and announcements are in the works. After that is released, discussion can be had under it for asking questions or suggestions. If someone wants to create a topic ahead of time to gather ideas, go ahead and ideas and suggestions under that will be considered.

[Mac Taylor]

Sorry if this may be a little off-topic, I will not go far but just to reply on few points.

I'm sorry, but where are these developers? I understand that there are less than a 100 people still active throughout the entire community, but per the information I was able to find in the V:MP section of forums, it shows that we have 3 developers there. The last update I saw regarding that would be:

Let's get straight to it. It was a bit optimistic to get to an alpha stable build from the ground up in 1 year and at this stage we are unlikely to release to the wider community for at least 6 months.

Which was exactly 6 months ago. Now, the point here is not FiveM, MTA, VC:MP, it is about SA:MP. But this pretty much backs up my initial point - lack of transparency and frequent updates. And empty promises and plans. Now, as a community is built by the players, I believe it is in our hands to get things going. But this lack of any input from Community HQs is offputting.

We can not deny that we have gone inactive sometimes, but we can not agree with this 100%. Last update was sent in Discord two months ago (a leak for an entire future V:MP panel (for IC and OOC purposes)). Yeah, we were not using the forum too much, as we preferred to keep forums for bigger updates/announcements. If you were really interested in V:MP, you would've been in our discord server and would've seen that by yourself.

We have 3 developers, each one of them work on a specific part of the server, that's why it takes too much time. As far as I know we haven't received any request from anyone who meets the requirements of a V:MP developer, though if anyone feels like helping and have the enough experience and knowledge with V:MP languages can reach up to Warren Doyle in his discord PM.

They have their RL responsibilities, one of them passed with a very hard time in RL, and he returned and continued work.
Yes, recently we haven't announced about any leaks or news about the server but currently some of the team are handling their RL stuff, but we haven't abandoned work on the server yet.

If we talk about a vision? We already set a very clear vision for the server and announced before.

If we talk about developers? We have already said if anyone wishes to help, feel free to contact Warren Doyle. But don't expect a very quick decision, it's a matter of trust.

If we talk about transparency with the HQ, as far as I am aware of, we have elaborated and answered all questions asked to us. I strongly advise you to join our discord and feel free to ask about anything. And for more transparency, I have thought of making a topic with a set date for example every Friday where HQ posts weekly any kind of update we achieved. But hey, don't expect it to bring updates every week.

I just can't understand what kind of transparency you guys are talking about, I hope you guys elaborate based on facts of the present not based on past quotes of past leaders.

You guys must understand development is not an easy task to do, I will post screens of the huge plan we have written for V:MP and I bet anyone may have the time to even read the document. We have spent a lot of time in that, and we have already worked on a lot of portions (see the leaks channel to know more).

Why is Cutt3r, a veteran player, the only one going around advertising the community? Why is the Argonath Facebook page dead? Why haven't we looked for a few twitch streamers to boost interest? What was done in the past three months from Development of each of these servers? There have been 0 changelogs posted for ANY of our servers in 2022. I understand JDC's missing due to RL priorities, but he's been AWOL for ages now.

There's a team behind the advertisement of Argonath, Joey, Kawashty, Agent, and of course managers+ of all servers. All of them have access to most of Argonath RPG Social media/advertisement platforms, they did advertise when there were things to attract, go re-check Facebook page, it's not yet dead.

But good why not, I will bring this to the rest of the HQ members and maybe we can officially bring back the AD team and open applications and improve advertisement methods, but you - the players - do your part of job and simply play what you enjoy.



At the end, sorry if it went too much off-topic, but had to reply to clarify about V:MP. I strongly advise you guys to rethink of your posts above and actually write on actual and practical solutions for the server you are interested in playing in. (Prefer to be on topic tho)