Argonath is dead

[Nathan]

As for the attitude toward Nathan, once again - I understand where it's coming from, but it's seriously the same thing going over and over again for years. Sure, both sides have a personal issue with eachother it seems like that leads to people automatically assuming his points are not valid. Let's just remember that even a broken clock is right twice a day or something among these lines.

This is the point I'm trying to make. I wanted for myself first analyze exactly what happened and what went wrong. I wrote the initial post for myself first. I wanted to write thoughts about how I processed this death and wanted to share my thoughts.


Kessu doesn't want to answer these questions. He said he has answer them but in reality, he hasn't addressed these questions directly:

1. Why did the community die? Who is at fault?

2. What have YOU done specifically to drive the community forward?

3. What has the leadership team done specifically to grow the community?

There is a lot of fingering pointing that the PLAYERS are the ones who need to grow the community but that's a stupid response. You can't blame your players when you (leadership) yourself are not putting in the effort to fix underlying issues. Change starts with the leadership first and then trickles down the players. We (players) want to mirror leadership but it's hard to use them as an example now when they're not being good examples.


There is a difference between toxicity and criticism. I tend to lead heavy on criticism not because I want to destroy what is left but to drive change and move in a positive direction. I wanted to be essentially the canary in a coal mine. I believe that we are not only past our peak, but we're on a downward spiral to an ultimate death. We cannot apply bandaid fixes of new servers in order to resolve the issue and pull us out of this downward spiral. The true solution is to change from operating how we always operated (because it got us to where we are today) to a new way of leading.

[UllerSkibenaes]

The same kind of discussion but published at every 6 months.

[Khm]

There is a lot of fingering pointing that the PLAYERS are the ones who need to grow the community but that's a stupid response. You can't blame your players when you (leadership) yourself are not putting in the effort to fix underlying issues. Change starts with the leadership first and then trickles down the players. We (players) want to mirror leadership but it's hard to use them as an example now when they're not being good examples.

What are the underlying issues? - without pointing any finger towards anyone

[Kessu]

Kessu doesn't want to answer these questions. He said he has answer them but in reality, he hasn't addressed these questions directly:

1. Why did the community die? Who is at fault?

2. What have YOU done specifically to drive the community forward?

3. What has the leadership team done specifically to grow the community?

There is a lot of fingering pointing that the PLAYERS are the ones who need to grow the community but that's a stupid response. You can't blame your players when you (leadership) yourself are not putting in the effort to fix underlying issues. Change starts with the leadership first and then trickles down the players. We (players) want to mirror leadership but it's hard to use them as an example now when they're not being good examples.

 

Literally all points made have been addressed by yours truly in your previous topics 

[Huntsman]

No Nathan, what you do isn't criticism.

It's a fucking depressed tantrum from a kid who obviously has issues and takes it out here.

Everybody's sick and tired of your shit. This very "dead" community you are referring to doesn't really want you around anymore.

[Leon.]

I didn't read the topic at all because arguments and cusswords and whatnot are bad for my health, but I thought I'd just stop and say

 HI

and I love you all.

[Mario_Rinna]

I regularly go to the HQ and each time I ask if SA-MP development will be restarted. Every time I get a no answer.
I have asked 150 times and I have been told no 150 times.
The point is that the same community leader answers with the same tone of voice.
And I ask every time with the same intonation:
— Will there be SA-MP support?
— There will be no SA-MP support.

— Don't you want to restart the development?
— We don't want to restart the development.

— Can you give HQ support, send admins?
— No, we don't send admins.

— I'd like a new SA-MP server, when will it be?
— I'm sorry, we're not making a new SA-MP server.

— Is there development support? I need scripts.
— We don't make new SA-MP scripts.

And this community leader, the bastard, knows my face perfectly, knows what I'm going to ask and knows what he's going to tell me. But not once have either of us ever shown with a gesture or a word that either of us knows the script. Sometimes the community leader is stalling at the front door when I go to Argonath headquarters, then I peek through the glass doors, he huffs indifferently and goes back to headquarters.
— What do you want?
— I need a new SA-MP server.
— We don't have any.
— Pity.

Sometimes he opens a forum thread in SA-MP forum section, and then, standing nearby, I wait patiently for him to finish reading it.
— Can we continue support of SA-MP server?
— No, we aren't continuing support.

Sometimes he's just bored at headquarters when there are no meetings, and I'm the only one pacing around. Of course, he knows what's going to happen next, but he doesn't show it and indifferently reacts to my question.
— For some reason the SA-MP server is closed, are you planning to reopen it?
— No, we aren't planning to, we aren't reopening it.

This is a very stark, truly masculine confrontation, the outcome of which is not clear. Obviously, each side expects to win. However, I'm already okay with deleting the contents of my posts and adding "I have left the community. Please do not reach out to me." to my forum signature.

[Patton]

Indubitably.

[Nathan]

There is a lot of fingering pointing that the PLAYERS are the ones who need to grow the community but that's a stupid response. You can't blame your players when you (leadership) yourself are not putting in the effort to fix underlying issues. Change starts with the leadership first and then trickles down the players. We (players) want to mirror leadership but it's hard to use them as an example now when they're not being good examples.

What are the underlying issues? - without pointing any finger towards anyone

- Lack of overall vision. Why are we doing what we are doing, and how are we getting there? What does the future of Argonath look like?

- Lack of growth - we have zero new players, we're surviving off nostalgia and old people coming back from early days instead of attracting new players

- Lack of a true one leader who sets the tone and pace for the entire community. Name me one country or shoot, even one community where there isn't a final decision maker. Instead we have a group of (mostly inactive) decision makers. You know what happens when there is too many cooks in a kitchen, nothing ever gets done.

- Lack of accountability - I understand this is a volunteer position but you (decision makers and those who are working on projects) should still be accountable for providing at least some results or get out of the way to someone who will deliver consistent results. Just pushing things on without an idea of an end date in sight means things will never be complete. We're just all going to be sitting here, watching "updates" happen about bullshit features like object placement (lol didn't ARA have this for years now) taking months to complete.

Literally all points made have been addressed by yours truly in your previous topics 

I literally went through all your replies and you did not address any of these points in details. I don't understand why it's so hard for you to answer three simple, basic questions.

No Nathan, what you do isn't criticism.

It's a fucking depressed tantrum from a kid who obviously has issues and takes it out here.

Everybody's sick and tired of your shit. This very "dead" community you are referring to doesn't really want you around anymore.

I understand that I'm just driving the same point over and over again but the issue is that these points are important if we ever want to see success. I understand that I'm no longer valued here but when I leave, I want to leave the place better than when I found it. Argonath was important to me. I wanted to see succeed but it never will succeed if we keep going the direction we've been going.

At this point, I understand I am not valued or wanted here so I will save my energy and breathe but I wanted to share one more point:

My prediction on what will happen in the future: six months from now, nothing will change. Twelve months from now, the community will be even more dead than before because we all lost interest. Badandy will come up with some excuse on why he can't finish up MTA SA and therefore all this hype will be for nothing. All the projects will be 80% complete but never released. No new players will join the community which means no more growth, just constant user number decay down to zero.

On May 22, I gave a self-imposed six month deadline that by 11/22/22, nothing will released and nothing will change. With 48 days remaining, I am almost certainly proven right. A lot of fruitless discussions, no true progress.



Nothing will change if nothing changes.

[Kessu]

Literally all points made have been addressed by yours truly in your previous topics 

I literally went through all your replies and you did not address any of these points in details. I don't understand why it's so hard for you to answer three simple, basic questions.

I went back as well and found several posts by myself and Brian answering exactly those questions. Interesting. I'll let you find it.

Name me one country or shoot, even one community where there isn't a final decision maker. Instead we have a group of (mostly inactive) decision makers. You know what happens when there is too many cooks in a kitchen, nothing ever gets done.

What? Literally all I can say. I'm truly speechless. You can poke any of the three leaders with exception of Brian right now and get an answer almost immediately. Warren is actively pushing out GTA V. VC:MP is very much alive, I don't know where you get your "leaders are inactive" from. I really don't.

- Lack of accountability - I understand this is a volunteer position but you (decision makers and those who are working on projects) should still be accountable for providing at least some results or get out of the way to someone who will deliver consistent results. Just pushing things on without an idea of an end date in sight means things will never be complete. We're just all going to be sitting here, watching "updates" happen about bullshit features like object placement (lol didn't ARA have this for years now) taking months to complete.

You cry about not receiving updates. You cry about no progress. We give you updates. We give you progress. You cry about that progress. You cry about those updates? Know what? I'm done. You're out. I will not let your toxic ass ruin the last pieces of motivation people have around here. You've ran your mouth one too many times and we, the HQ collectively, with a single voice will tell you to fuck off and never come back. We don't need you, we don't want you.


This is the last topic of it's kind that we will allow to remain open. Any new topics about "aRgOnAtH iS dEaD" will simply be removed, spammers will be muted. You have been warned.

[Badandy]

Badandy will come up with some excuse on why he can't finish up MTA SA and therefore all this hype will be for nothing. All the projects will be 80% complete but never released. No new players will join the community which means no more growth, just constant user number decay down to zero.

I must be a masochist to enjoy making a server in Argonath while people like you insult me. I don't care if you say shit about GTA SA but when you start talking shit on me, that's a problem. I could invest my skillset and knowledge somewhere else but I'm here making a server for others to enjoy. So the only excuse I will have for not completing this server will be found in my obituary.

[danigold1]

Kessu is anybody enormously plus yet a calculate simulation their each other beside a dead server. Nathan will unfasten those so yet pop him beyond somebody? Don't make me laugh

[Huntsman]

Kessu is anybody enormously plus yet a calculate simulation their each other beside a dead server. Nathan will unfasten those so yet pop him beyond somebody? Don't make me laugh

what

[Kessu]

Kessu is anybody enormously plus yet a calculate simulation their each other beside a dead server. Nathan will unfasten those so yet pop him beyond somebody? Don't make me laugh

what

[Sawyer]

Kessu is anybody enormously plus yet a calculate simulation their each other beside a dead server. Nathan will unfasten those so yet pop him beyond somebody? Don't make me laugh

yes