Suspects not allowed to get backup

[Void]

"Cop" is a generic role. You can respawn as "another" cop. "Criminal"/"suspect" is not a generic role. After you die for your crime, you're dead but can respawn as "another" criminal and commit crimes again.

Your argument is based on assumption that Argonath is a "one role" server. Wrong. You can play/change as many roles as you want.

Most of the posters here are stuck in one role.
Check ARPD forums. They all have a specific name. Every cop out there. People actually don't think which role they play. They just play.
Nobody will ask them "How did you return, because you're dead, what the...?!"

Try to allow suspects to return after death, alongside policemen. Lets see what the server will look like.

[Fabio]

Try to allow suspects to return after death, alongside policemen. Lets see what the server will look like.

May not be that relevant to SA:MP, but in VC:MP I've seen "certain" people who have returned from death as a criminal by making up excuses, not going to include the situation here, but all I'm saying is when that happend in VC:MP, it was just wasn't controllerble, the criminals just went on a killing spree with the cops, came back, supported one another and it just become into Cops V Robbers server style atmosphere. It wasn't allowed obviously but it was by 2 admins which I won't go into.

Now imagine that in SA:MP with the amount of players?


Also, one question I have, do we need the whole of SAPD, SA:MP FBI and SA:MP SWAT to catch one criminal?

Because thats what I'm seeing a lot ingame, it just makes the cop duty worthless with so many people there you can't really get into the RP or the action.

Back in the days of MTA:VC the SWAT commander on his own used to take out loads of criminals by himself.

[EminemRulez]

Returning after death?! Give us /godmode instead... It's the pretty same.

Rules should have no exceptions but apparently this is a cops server.

[Void]

May not be that relevant to SA:MP, but in VC:MP I've seen "certain" people who have returned from death as a criminal by making up excuses, not going to include the situation here, but all I'm saying is when that happend in VC:MP, it was just wasn't controllerble, the criminals just went on a killing spree with the cops, came back, supported one another and it just become into Cops V Robbers server style atmosphere. It wasn't allowed obviously but it was by 2 admins which I won't go into.

Now imagine that in SA:MP with the amount of players?

Seems like my punctuation was not convincing enough. I opposed that idea. I do not agree of any changes within "returning after death", but your post is informational.

[9r2e5i3k]

Respawning as another generic cop is not "returning after death". One cop is dead, and another one is replacing the dead one in the chase.

Respawning as civilian (because you don't spawn as a suspect) and killing a cop for a crime someone else did is deathmatching, because person is unrelated and has no valid reason to do so. If the person states he's the previous criminal (that's dead) to become related, he's "returning after death".

[Shockk]

Why not new rules?

Criminals are not allowed to do crimes.
Cops get minigun when on-duty.
Cops have access to administrator commands: /gotocriminal [ID]
Cops have unlimited ammu.
Criminals are not allowed to shoot back - if you're dying, /gu.
Criminals may not avoid paying the ticket. You must pay or get ban.

Your ideas are somewhat similar to the ones I suggested in another topic not so long ago;

If implemented, you may aswell provide SWAT and FBI the ability to load up on miniguns. Add Teleports for cops and you'd be onto a winner. 
Furthermore, you may also consider adding the following;
- Cops may return to a given situation as much as they want.
- Certain cops may have access to heavy weapons for free.
- Certain personnel from law enforcement agencies may spawn/use(or whatever); Hunters, Hydras and Rhinos.
- Allow the blues to driverdb on bikes. 

Now before you hardcore supporters jump on my ass, this isn't moaning. I enjoy playing on this server the way it is... a lot. Even if there are some things which are a tad unjust. I thought I'd explain it the way I see it and hopefully demonstrate that this addition would be very unfair. 

Given the amount of advantages cops already have, do criminals REALLY need a rule scrutinising them even further? NOANY! 

CHEA'

I can't be arsed reading the rest but it's utterly stupid to assume that a cop is expected to acknowledge a criminal before the criminal is about to shoot. Although I understand the general argument put forth, regarding cops losing money after killing a person who is not suspected...I cannot help but feel that the scripts should be scrutinised.

I personally wasn't aware of this "rule" up until I was tempbanned a couple of months back.
I have also noticed that CERTAIN SAPD members are using this rule to there advantage by not suspecting blatant aiders.
Implementing a couple of CnR/TDM rules is just ridiculous, when will the scripts/rules stop breast-feeding cops?  :skull:

[9r2e5i3k]

I have also noticed that CERTAIN SAPD members are using this rule to there advantage by not suspecting blatant aiders.

Or is it the AIDERS' fault that they provoke cops by "aiding" to get suspected just to be able to shoot at them?

[Shockk]

Or is it the AIDERS' fault that they provoke cops by "aiding" to get suspected just to be able to shoot at them?

That would be classified as DM and would be an administrative matter. I do not see why roleplay actions should be limited because of this.
Just in-case you're implying that I'm blaming cops, re-read my post.

[Void]

Re-spawning as civilian (because you don't spawn as a suspect) and killing a cop for a crime someone else did is death matching, because person is unrelated and has no valid reason to do so. If the person states he's the previous criminal (that's dead) to become related, he's "returning after death".

There are numerous ways to tease a policeman. You can simply arrive at a shootout scene and get suspected for aiding. "One more orange man to shoot, herp". Then you'll hear the famous "WTF I didn't do anything, f**k cops". You cannot expect that much knowledge from a policeman. He doesn't have criminal sensor.

How so? What if he wants to bail his friend out? A suspect can, for example, call his buddies in /cb. They will say "lol we won't, its returning after death". Really?
They'll get strapped with heat and barge in on the police.

Carefully read your quote Grzesiek. Throw out this:

because person is unrelated and has no valid reason to do so.

and you'll get infinitive bros on shootout scenes.

Since its not regulated already, there's that CnR server people always complain on.

[EminemRulez]

call his buddies in /cb. They will say "lol we won't, its returning after death". Really?

????????????????????????

[Shockk]

Then you'll hear the famous "WTF I didn't do anything, f**k cops". You cannot expect that much knowledge from a policeman.

These 'criminals' are apart of the problem in my opinion.
I wonder whether they know that being suspected does not automatically mean that you're guilty.

[Violet]

I have a question on how it works with the rule about not being allowed to shoot at cops to aid friends.

I would like a specific explenaition about that, before someone bans me.

Let's say I am player_1 and my friend, who I know for quite a long time on Argonath, Player_2 (good guy), is in trouble and he is chased by 2 cops. He asks me in /PM to help him, so I grab a car, go after him and catch up with him in my brand new pumped up shining, highly modified, $55,000 Green/Orange Elegy and start shooting at the cops with my Combat. Is this allowed?

When can I aid a friend, when he is in the same group as me? When I am standing next to him? When I am personally involved in the situation? Etc.

It depends on the situation...
1. If it is the mafia HQ and all mafia members are there, cops are trying to arrest one of them, of cos, nonsense if other mafia members will stand and watch it...
In this case members of mafia group will start to shoot back, trying to help the friend... It is ok...

2. Police is chasing some guy and suddenly appears a car with non-wanted civilian who started shooting them... Simply, cops can decide it is a deathmatcher/cophunter... Attack without a reason is not allowed... And this rule plays here not the best role... As for the criminal helper, so for admins who got reports and for sure will freeze you to get the reason of shooting cops...

How to help?
In this case (if you want to shoot cops back) the main target is to get wanted level... Get him into your car and try to get rid of chase... Cops will suspect you for aiding, then aub, your dream became be a reality...

With wanted level you are allowed to help any sort of criminals with any sort of help...

Why is such rule actually?

Well, you see blue nick of cop, you know he can shoot you if you are criminal... So do cops when see a wanted level of your nick... Both sides are equal and do not confuse each other, less misunderstanding, less reports to admins...

What if the mafia members are present at the mafia HQ but aren't suspected?

I answered on it in quoted post... The thing is - attack of mafia members at HQ is expectable and understandable...

[9r2e5i3k]

A suspect can, for example, call his buddies in /cb.

And do what? Shoot cops?

There are numerous ways to tease a policeman.

Why would you tease cops? To get suspected and shoot them?

Also, are you implying that you provoke cops to get suspected "for something else" to be able to return to the previous scene and aid your friends? That's still returning, being suspected for "something else" or not.

From quotes posted by Violet - notice how do you get wanted... by helping suspects but not by blasting cops chasing your wanted friend (deathmatching). Or after already dead, not by provoking other cops just to get wanted level ("poor role-play", cop baiting) just to return to previous scene to help wanted friend (returning after death).

[Void]

Why would you tease cops? To get suspected and shoot them?

Remember that you don't need a reason nor an explanation once you arrive in a middle of a shootout scene. You'll get suspected easily and identified as an aider or something similar. It is considered as teasing. It takes about 2 seconds. Once you go orange, you can shoot back.

@Violet
Suggest NON shooting options as helping your suspected friend, but you'll end up suspected and it'll turn into a bloody shootout in the end.

[EminemRulez]

you'll end up suspected and it'll turn into a bloody shootout in the end.

Correct.

It's a proven fact... The less used command by cops is: /me.