Wanted level system improvement

[stormeus]

Sorry, I couldn't resist but wtf is with that photoshopped payday in Marcell's signature? D:

That was on the test serv, lol.

[Marcell]

Storm scripted this right away and it's fucking amazing, I just can't even imagine how epic the cop chases will be as well as cop determination (as he can actually lose you if he wanders off to buy 100000 spaz )

Let's do a vote, guys...say yes if you want it implemented, no if you don't or something, so Storm can include it or not.

I'll say yes, its just big advantage to our server.

[Huntsman]

No

[Marcell]

No

Sorry, you can only vote if you're a VCMP player

[Salmonella]

Don't like the idea. It would make me lose interest in chasing too probably... Not because of the principe, but because of reactions that you would get, ''pwned'' ''haha'' and of course even more anti-ARPD moaning ( which apperentally is allowed now? ) from you know who.

So my ''vote'' will also be No.

IF this would get implented :

This idea doesn't work with wanted levels. It would only work if the wanted levels are removed and wheter you've killed 100 cops ( As you said you did in your example ) it would still just says ''Wanted Players : Example'', without a number. THEN it would be a nice idea. For let's say, 20 minutes if you're wanted, if you kill someone, it adds 10 minutes, and so on.

[Marcell]

Let me explain how it works.
Let's say you killed a cop.
Your wanted level shows 3/3
3 is the wanted level you have, whereas the second 3 is the 'heat'. 1 = 1 minute, so if it's 3 you need to run for 3 minutes...ALTHOUGH, if you kill a suspect (criminal) it raises by 2 seconds, if you kill a civilian it raises by 5 seconds, if you kill a cop it raises by 20 seconds (or 10? I don't remember) meaning instead of running away for 180 seconds (3*60) you need to run away for 200 seconds (3*60+20)
If cops are near you, after one minute you get a message saying 'Cops are still on your tail. Lose them!', and if you won't lose them - your heat INCREASES each minute.
So if a cop is near you for 2 minutes, your wanted level goes 3/5

Now, you need to escape the cops, if they are far away from you enough. Then you just wait until your heat drops.

And please Sal...don't bring the 'reactions' talk into this. We all know you were 'abused' by criminals who were defending themselfs, then you started a disscussion about how the bankrob is pure DM event..but that's another story.

This can bring more spice to the chases and copwork...If i have 1 wanted level I mostly get a PCJ and ride thru all the city until cops get bored, but later or earlier I will get shot/arrested anyway - it isn't my decision. Which made no sense. Now it's fixed you could say.

As long as ARPD get their asses to chase criminals, there will be no whining. Remember than you can't go to ammunation 10000 miles away from the suspect to buy some guns..But hey - you *MOSTLY* have a partner. It will increase teamwork if you ask me - let's say one chases the criminal, other cop goes to Phills Place for some tasty booN.

Here's my suggestion - let's implement this for a week of playing. If the idea is that much disliked, as long as there are proper arguments, we could delete it. OR, improve it.

[Salmonella]

Let me explain how it works.
Let's say you killed a cop.
Your wanted level shows 3/3
3 is the wanted level you have, whereas the second 3 is the 'heat'. 1 = 1 minute, so if it's 3 you need to run for 3 minutes...ALTHOUGH, if you kill a suspect (criminal) it raises by 2 seconds, if you kill a civilian it raises by 5 seconds, if you kill a cop it raises by 20 seconds (or 10? I don't remember) meaning instead of running away for 180 seconds (3*60) you need to run away for 200 seconds (3*60+20)
If cops are near you, after one minute you get a message saying 'Cops are still on your tail. Lose them!', and if you won't lose them - your heat INCREASES each minute.
So if a cop is near you for 2 minutes, your wanted level goes 3/5

Now, you need to escape the cops, if they are far away from you enough. Then you just wait until your heat drops.

...''Heat''? W/e. This is what I propose if implented :

You get a wanted level, no matter the reason, and have to run for at least 15 minutes. This would mean getting rid of the wanted LEVEL or ''heat''. It would just put your name on the wanted list, nothing more, the way I see it, the wanted level is used as some kind of killcount to show off to others. It is unneccesairy, the only argument to keep it would be to ''see a certain difference between the weight that comes with the crime''. Yet that argument is not enough for me to change my stance within the subject. The people who are roleplaying with the criminal will know what he did and will know wheter the crime was important or less important. There's always /c crime too.

Each time you kill a civilian / suspect / criminal / whoever, your running time will increase with another 15 minutes. Your suggestions of 2 seconds, 10 second, 5 seconds just make me laugh :P, You KILL someone and you have to just blink your eyes twice to get it off your time... 10 to 20 minutes would be a good time which actually is a lengthy enough time for murder and also gives the other party ( cops ) a chance to catch you.

And please Sal...don't bring the 'reactions' talk into this. We all know you were 'abused' by criminals who were defending themselfs, then you started a disscussion about how the bankrob is pure DM event..but that's another story.

Why do you think I'm talking about that? I am not even talking about myself. I have simply witnessed people whine, insult, moan and provoke ( about ) the ARPD. One example of what I did see was Perry do all these things to Bass..

This can bring more spice to the chases and copwork...If i have 1 wanted level I mostly get a PCJ and ride thru all the city until cops get bored, but later or earlier I will get shot/arrested anyway - it isn't my decision. Which made no sense. Now it's fixed you could say.

It is your decision to get a wanted level in the first place. I don't really see how this would bring more ''spice'' to chases. If you like chases so much, why do you want them to be limited? Wouldn't having unlimited time as a suspect give you the most ''spice'' reachable? For cop roleplay it wouldn't be much more interesting either. Appart from the annoyance of losing a suspect and having him provoke you afterwards on the mainchat of course. That would certainly give some ''spice'', negative ''spice''.

As long as ARPD get their asses to chase criminals, there will be no whining. Remember than you can't go to ammunation 10000 miles away from the suspect to buy some guns..But hey - you *MOSTLY* have a partner. It will increase teamwork if you ask me - let's say one chases the criminal, other cop goes to Phills Place for some tasty booN.

I will be speaking for myself here and not for the ARPD, but : The reason I personally am not interested in chasing a few people is because it always ends in the same, negative way. First you approach the suspect in order to get your car wheels shot to hell before even being able to say anything at all. Then you get out and have 2 M4's shooting at you. When you finally manage to get HP off the suspect(s), it raises by some mysterious reason ( /c eat pizza or whatever of course ). You shoot him or her again and the suspect takes his vehicle and speeds away.

At that point I have two options, 1. Chase, 2. Look for someone else to actually ROLEPLAY with. For me that choice is obvious. If I chose to chase, it would take 1 to 3 hours only to have someone use over 20 vehicles and in the end die because he ''drowned'' or ''couldn't get out of his burning vehicle''. But hey, thats just the way I experienced it many times.

Here's my suggestion - let's implement this for a week of playing. If the idea is that much disliked, as long as there are proper arguments, we could delete it. OR, improve it.

Yeah, let's implement one random idea that just happens to be yours in the server for one week for the first time in the history of the server! No... I think we will have a perfect way of displaying what this would look like in reality and therefore do not need to see how this works in the server.
 

[Marcell]

Interesting
105 heat, about 35 cops killed (I won't count civilians)
35 cops, 10 minutes for each kill...I need to run for 350 minutes?
Oh yea, that makes shitload of sense yo.
I don't want 'my' idea implemented - I'm just impressed how it works, and I'm sure most of people will like it.

Naturally Argonath is purely about roleplay, but you can't predict every-f**king-one who plays VCMP Argonath is a guy who knows what roleplaying is at all - some of the people treat the server like DM RPG - a more 'delicate' version of team deathmatch. Why? Because this is VCMP scene. Everyone on SAMP knows what roleplay is (70% at least I'd say) but VCMP is a DMing scene, as RPG servers aren't popular there.
I think your stance is 'roleplay everything'. That is not how that works. Bank robberies in real life for example (ever watched 44 Minutes?) have the shooting part longer than negotiating with cops, trust me. Well it all depends.

If a criminal shoots you just when you approach him, that's his choice. You can't force him to roleplay.
Overall the minute-wanted-level thingy just sounds bad for me and totally copied off from SA Argo. Killing here is ALOT easier than on SAMP Argonath - if your DM skills are good enough, that is. In SAMP that doesn't happen really, you will get shot down easily as long as the cops overnumber you. This is one of reasons why we can't implement exactly the same system.

Vice City is a small city, that's another of the reasons why 10 minutes of running after killing a cop is just overall bad idea..
Anyways, let the others speak - I'd really like to hear their opinions, as your one was extremely expected. If anyone wants to check how this epic shit works, I'll ask Storm to set up test server.

[Salmonella]

Interesting
105 heat, about 35 cops killed (I won't count civilians)
35 cops, 10 minutes for each kill...I need to run for 350 minutes?
Oh yea, that makes shitload of sense yo.
I don't want 'my' idea implemented - I'm just impressed how it works, and I'm sure most of people will like it.

Then don't deathmatch so much cops? 35 cops......... ridiculous. If you're interested in losing your wanted level, don't go around killing people, that common sense, mate.

Want to kill someone? sure, but pay for it in time. Neither do I think many people will like it. At least I don't, and there's more if you read other people's posts. Quite frankly there's more people against this than with this..

Naturally Argonath is purely about roleplay, but you can't predict every-f**king-one who plays VCMP Argonath is a guy who knows what roleplaying is at all - some of the people treat the server like DM RPG - a more 'delicate' version of team deathmatch. Why? Because this is VCMP scene. Everyone on SAMP knows what roleplay is (70% at least I'd say) but VCMP is a DMing scene, as RPG servers aren't popular there.
I think your stance is 'roleplay everything'. That is not how that works. Bank robberies in real life for example (ever watched 44 Minutes?) have the shooting part longer than negotiating with cops, trust me. Well it all depends.

So you actually are saying that you THINK VCMP Argonath is a deathmatch server? You're very wrong. /c crimson. The only people that actually should deathmatch are new people that still have to be taught the ways of roleplaying. And the people I am talking about are regulars, like you. Maybe you and your friends are used to deathmatch in Argonath and enjoy DMing all the time, but I will not just participate in that. I stand for the true Argonath vision and will not be stopped from doing that. There is still hope. I wont let it get furthur.

My stance is ''roleplay''. I can't think of anything more simple. You know? That thing Argonath is made for?

If a criminal shoots you just when you approach him, that's his choice. You can't force him to roleplay.
Overall the minute-wanted-level thingy just sounds bad for me and totally copied off from SA Argo. Killing here is ALOT easier than on SAMP Argonath - if your DM skills are good enough, that is. In SAMP that doesn't happen really, you will get shot down easily as long as the cops overnumber you. This is one of reasons why we can't implement exactly the same system.

Yes, deathmatching is his choice, I can't force him to roleplay, but I will always at least try to help him and enforce the rules. Killing in VCMP is a lot easier because the shooting ''system'' just sucks and literally comes from the stone-age of games. Basic. The reason you might suck in SA is because you probably only played 1 time and to my knowledge you are banned for weapon hacks.. If anything actually requires skills, it's GTASA or furthur version of the Grand Theft Auto series. But I don't think SA requires that much ''skill'' either. Just a lot more than VC.

The minute system is a working system. Why exactly do you not like it? Because it reminds you of SAMP? I don't see any valid arguments against it. Just because the shooting works different in GTASA does not have anything, at all, to do with the way the script should work. :

You get a wanted level, no matter the reason, and have to run for at least 15 minutes. This would mean getting rid of the wanted LEVEL or ''heat''. It would just put your name on the wanted list, nothing more, the way I see it, the wanted level is used as some kind of killcount to show off to others. It is unneccesairy, the only argument to keep it would be to ''see a certain difference between the weight that comes with the crime''. Yet that argument is not enough for me to change my stance within the subject. The people who are roleplaying with the criminal will know what he did and will know wheter the crime was important or less important. There's always /c crime too.

Vice City is a small city, that's another of the reasons why 10 minutes of running after killing a cop is just overall bad idea..
Anyways, let the others speak - I'd really like to hear their opinions, as your one was extremely expected. If anyone wants to check how this epic shit works, I'll ask Storm to set up test server.

Vice City too small for you? Then adjust the distance cops are required to be in in order to keep your time-count the same. Simple as that. You keept bragging about how good you are in chases, getting away from the cops shouldn't be hard then. ''epic shit'' indeed.

[Marcell]

That is exactly what is so annoying about you.
You think every player who comes from DM scene of VCMP will join Argo and understand and like all the rules right away. No, I don't think it is a DM server - but combat is a huge part of VCMP Argo.

Also, in theory, if cops wouldn't shoot criminals when wanted they wouldn't get killed - so it's not really criminal's fault that he is wanted for the copkilling. Sure, he can surrender anytime though.

I also think you seriously clearly mistake combat situation with deathmatching. Opening fire on cops that are shooting you themselfs is NOT DMing, trust me...same if I want to destroy a gang - I roleplay but they do not roleplay back. So what I'm suspossed to do? I just assault them. I don't camp at their spawns, I try to roleplay it by doing attacks on their gang HQs. Do you classify that as deathmatching? Me, no. Because it may be deathmatching, but there's roleplay reason for it.

I was banned (I still am) for weapon hacks indeed - seems like playing SAMP on a heavily modded game isn't always the best choice, but I was too lazy to reinstall it.

SA does not require big skill in shooting, and even if you play it for years your skill won't come in-handy, unlike VCMP. If you're overnumbered by cops you actually have to use some tactic on SAMP which is what I like. In here if your combat skills are big enough, you could just gun down those 3 cops after you easily as well.

And the part where you say 'I stop the car near a criminal and he begins to shoot me - then my car is broken. I have two choices - go after him or roleplay with someone else. Guess which I choose' this is more like a whine part. Cops in real life (I know this shouldn't be compared, but still) don't go away from chasing some criminals who just opened fire on him cause 'its too hard' or 'he has no chances'. Surely he can move back and call backup, but not go after someone else.

Also it's kinda funny how roleplaying something that involves killing is classified as deathmatching. If I roleplay a psycho with chainsaw and kidnap people then murder them, I'll still get called a DMer.

Why I don't like the minute system? Because I still think VC is too small city for those kind of things - I manage (with Infernus) to circle whole map in less than 5 minutes (without crashing on the way of course). The 10 minutes time gets lessened - fine, but 10 minutes is way too high for VC. SA is huge and you have helload of places to go, hell, even one cities. VC isn't even as big as one city from SA.

[Morphine]

Then don't deathmatch so much cops? 35 cops......... ridiculous. If you're interested in losing your wanted level, don't go around killing people, that common sense, mate.

Want to kill someone? sure, but pay for it in time. Neither do I think many people will like it. At least I don't, and there's more if you read other people's posts. Quite frankly there's more people against this than with this..
So you actually are saying that you THINK VCMP Argonath is a deathmatch server? You're very wrong. /c crimson. The only people that actually should deathmatch are new people that still have to be taught the ways of roleplaying. And the people I am talking about are regulars, like you. Maybe you and your friends are used to deathmatch in Argonath and enjoy DMing all the time, but I will not just participate in that. I stand for the true Argonath vision and will not be stopped from doing that. There is still hope. I wont let it get furthur.

My stance is ''roleplay''. I can't think of anything more simple. You know? That thing Argonath is made for?
Yes, deathmatching is his choice, I can't force him to roleplay, but I will always at least try to help him and enforce the rules. Killing in VCMP is a lot easier because the shooting ''system'' just sucks and literally comes from the stone-age of games. Basic. The reason you might suck in SA is because you probably only played 1 time and to my knowledge you are banned for weapon hacks.. If anything actually requires skills, it's GTASA or furthur version of the Grand Theft Auto series. But I don't think SA requires that much ''skill'' either. Just a lot more than VC.

The minute system is a working system. Why exactly do you not like it? Because it reminds you of SAMP? I don't see any valid arguments against it. Just because the shooting works different in GTASA does not have anything, at all, to do with the way the script should work. :
Vice City too small for you? Then adjust the distance cops are required to be in in order to keep your time-count the same. Simple as that. You keept bragging about how good you are in chases, getting away from the cops shouldn't be hard then. ''epic shit'' indeed.

What's the point of 'srs roleplaying'? - are the words I've read somewhere faaaaaaaaaaar back. Why do you act so strong on the behalf of VCMP's Argonath if you don't even play on it? Killing cops is not DMing.
"Maybe you and your friends are used to deathmatch in Argonath and enjoy DMing all the time" - if you would ACTUALLY come see what is happening there you would see that we RP a LOT.
The shooting system in VC:MP is not stone-age. It is way better than what it is on SA-MP. You learn to move your hands more that way. Well that is up to you to decide of course.
Only about 2% of the VCMP Argonath community tend to 'Deathmatch', and that's mostly the new people. Others are loyal enough to the community to avoid it.
You can't blame anyone specifically for what is happening there. We've all a cut of the trouble, so don't go blaming EAF and IT for what is happening there, along with the TCL freedom fighters.

[Emre]

Excessive usage of capitals.
Sustain your rage, please.

[detective_perry]

Calm down Emre 

Anyway, Salmonella, I don't see your point. I would understand that you fight for what you believe in only if you played VCMP, but lets be honest, you don't. You're SAMP admin, your job is to be there. If you feel you can't be on both sides, choose one and stick with it.

[Marcell]

He won't - he wants to bring VCMP to MTA:VC level. 10 admins roleplaying, every newbie who rulebreaks gets a kick.

[Emre]

Salmonella was part of the VC:MP set for that long, he'd easily deserve to share a word.

I'm sure this "SA:MP regulars have no chance to comment about VC:MP, even if they're veteran-like" trend goes all around the server, which is retarded.

EDIT: Marcell, not to go against you or anything like that, but if you don't punish them for their constant commitment of wrong things , how shall they learn if they don't listen?