Gangwars - what's in the pipeline, your ideas/suggestions

[Mario_Rinna]

Regarding the old system of war validation, it was popular but had so many restrictions that it was unworkable.

What makes you think that a new system will be "workable"?

The way you should consider Cutter's ideas are as seeds. The overall long term aim is to allow for viable power struggles between organised groups of criminals, to promote criminal roleplay in a way that is not instantly shut down by the administration because it has fallen foul of the rules or immedately attracts the attention of the police who overwhelm it within moments.

Not to be pedantic, but criminal role-play is not about gang wars only.

Gang wars occur daily in the server, they always lead to mass deathmatching but quite possibly have role play backgrounds. Regardless of their backgrounds the end result is the same, mass deathmatching that disrupts the game play of others and has to be stopped.

Legalizing DM inside an arena will not help you in preventing it outside of said arena.

What Cutter is trying to do is to introduce a way to prevent having to stop them, so those same players who engage in huge gang related battles now can do so without breaking the rules. Just run with it, think about it and try to imagine how you would like to see it developed. We will listen to your ideas. If you don't like the idea of gang wars at all, don't worry about it, it won't affect you anyway.

I love how you guys suggest adding complicated scripts, while even /exit is bugged.

[Ratko Gavrilovic]

Oh come on.
This is bad.
This makes me think of "dm zones" with all the script support and arena's.. Just go to the enemy's hood and pop pop.

[midget]

Well the idea itself sounds more like a last attempt to bring back the criminal organisations without tampering with the SAPD.
When someone says "That guy is from a criminal organisation", the first thing you guys think is "The only thing he wants is to shoot cops", and to minimize the cophuning/DM you guys came up with a "DM but only criminals allowed in."

Broad outline of the idea:
1. Gangwars will have a non refundable joining fee on a per person basis. In case a gang member's game crashes before the start of the war, his fee gets refunded but will not rejoin the gangwar.
2. Minimum of 5, max of 10 members in the gangwar.
3. Gang members will be chosen with script support, teleported to the gang war arena(currently a choice of 3 maps, two of which are new & to be designed).
4. Admins will be involved in the gangwar to oversee it, although, as there is script support, their role may be minimal.
5. Gangwar starts after both teams are ready, when a team is completely wiped out, the other team is apparently the winner, remaining gang members teleport back to LS.
6. None of the members in the gangwar become suspects even though they may have killed someone in the gangwar.
7. Once the gangwar ends, neither team will participate in another gangwar for the period of 2 weeks.
8. Civilians(the guys with white names, not the scripted job employees) will be allowed to watch the gangwar.
9. In order to participate in the gangwar, an application will be made with requisite details.

1.Are we supposed to pay for our gangwars? Is this some kind of "State" service you're providing? "Pay for DM"
2.Like many other have said, more than 10 members should be allowed to join, however the members should have something connected to the "family" they are supporting.
Otherwise people can just choose someone from the street.
3.Sounds good, otherwise the cops will stop us.
4.I'd like it if 2 or more admins were available for this, two opinions are better than one.
And since it probably won't be a daily occurence due to the limit, once per two weeks, and we are how many active criminal organisations?
5.Nothing to add here.
6.Sounds fair, I don't want it to become a DM fest seconds after the gangwar has ended.
7.Restrictions' a *****
8.Sounds cool.
9.Fine.

Do you actually think that some gangwar script will bring back criminality?
Maybe some small time groups that will close 1 week later, but not the bigger ones.

Like Mario_Rinna said, criminal role play is not about gang wars only.
And I feel offended that the higher ranked administrators in the server believe it.

Not supported.

[Cutt3r]

I hope it was constructive enough.

Yes, this sort of post is what I want, not a suggestion for joining the ParUni division  . Of course, with a radical post, such comments are expected, I just wish they were less moronic.

That being said:
1. It would be great to have the gang war members as suspects. But (1)considering the bloodshed/action that gang members are part of; (2) Cop hunting that normally occurs when a group of 4-6 people move around in cars &; (3) The admin time involved in spectating such cases, we have decided against it - unless there is really good reason.

2. Consider the time of 2 weeks as a recuperation time - you end up in hospital or such. We cannot have gangwars without such a break. This is also another method of discouraging frivolous battles. A gang will think hard of whether it should invest time and money in a reason for the war & they will think well about it, when such a clause is inserted.

3. I just called in gangwar arena. If that sounds like a DM matter, which I agree it does, we will change it to gangwar location. Nonetheless, the teleport is an essential part of this process. We cannot have it in open locations because (1) New players may see it and feel that anything goes on server, i.e. it is a DM server (2) Admins may not be able to control the whole aspect of the war when the gangwar is in an open terrain (3) The idea concerning civilians watching it and possibly generating additional roleplay from the matter becomes impossible with an open terrain.

Unfortunately, memorable happenings like these will no longer occur, and be placed on three various war arenas, which is in my opinion, one step in the wrong direction.

Yes, this is unfortunate. But if there is any hope of bringing back an iota of such memorable happenings, such a step is needed. The fact that it will be in 3 locations(note, not war arenas anymore  ), is a small price to pay for the larger good of actually having a gangwar and being able to settle things mano-a-mano, with no moaning of who deathmatched whom and who lost weapons without roleplay.

[Marcell]

Teleporting gangsters to 'gang war arena' ? that just sounds wrong..

[MrTrane]

I'm neutral on this but I would like to drop an idea in case it will be implied now or in future.
Instead of teleporting them in a custom made gang war arena it would be better if it can happen in any place, what I mean is that the players should have the ability to decide in which location they want it to happen so once they have agreed on it and use the command to join the 'fight' it will change their Virtual World so they will be alone in that world but in the same location, that will give the ability for more than 1 fights ongoing at the same time but also more realism in the new gangwar system.

[Mario_Rinna]

Yes, this sort of post is what I want, not a suggestion for joining the ParUni division  . Of course, with a radical post, such comments are expected, I just wish they were less moronic.

Lol. Nothing is less moronic than the first post of this topic...

If someone else wrote this in SA:MP Ideas, this topic would be locked now and maybe deleted.

That being said:
1. It would be great to have the gang war members as suspects. But (1)considering the bloodshed/action that gang members are part of; (2) Cop hunting that normally occurs when a group of 4-6 people move around in cars &; (3) The admin time involved in spectating such cases, we have decided against it - unless there is really good reason.

I am sure our amazingly effective SWAT can handle a small group of armed people.

2. Consider the time of 2 weeks as a recuperation time - you end up in hospital or such. We cannot have gangwars without such a break. This is also another method of discouraging frivolous battles. A gang will think hard of whether it should invest time and money in a reason for the war & they will think well about it, when such a clause is inserted.

Yes, the only possible way to use hospitals... Why should winners get hospitalized, by the way?

3. I just called in gangwar arena. If that sounds like a DM matter, which I agree it does, we will change it to gangwar location. Nonetheless, the teleport is an essential part of this process. We cannot have it in open locations because (1) New players may see it and feel that anything goes on server, i.e. it is a DM server (2) Admins may not be able to control the whole aspect of the war when the gangwar is in an open terrain (3) The idea concerning civilians watching it and possibly generating additional roleplay from the matter becomes impossible with an open terrain.

And what is the difference between a "gangwar arena" and a "gangwar location"?

1. New players already are convinced this is a TDM server... So what will change?
2. Then something is wrong with the admin team.
3. How do you expect civilians to behave? "Oh, wow, a shoot-out, this is fun! I'll just sit here and watch, instead of running away, taking cover and/or calling 911."

Yes, this is unfortunate. But if there is any hope of bringing back an iota of such memorable happenings, such a step is needed. The fact that it will be in 3 locations(note, not war arenas anymore  ), is a small price to pay for the larger good of actually having a gangwar and being able to settle things mano-a-mano, with no moaning of who deathmatched whom and who lost weapons without roleplay.

Call a DM zone however you like, it will still be a DM zone...

[ChasKa]

You're suggesting a paint-ball event but not a gang-war. :poke:

[Marcell]

lol, so if a newbie-civilians notice a huge shootout between two groups having different name tags/surnames, they will think it's a deathmatch server, but if they see gangs teleporting to some location to fight, they will not?

you said civilians in open terrain can't add any roleplay in a gang war while civilians on a gang war arena (or w/e) will do, may I ask how? We gonna film argonath TV series 'GANG WARS' with civilians screaming 'YOOOO CORLEONEEE, WHOOP DEIR ASSES!' ?

basicly the whole topic (yes I did read every post) when shortened/translated is like:
'ADMINS CAN'T HANDLE GANG WARS, SO WE GONNA ADD DM ARENAS, SO THERE WONT BE WHINING ABOUT GANG WARS, YO'
you might as well delete any weapons in 'free world', whenever you want to duel/kill someone, you type /duel ID, then you get a deagle fight on 1 vs 1....duh

Some may think gang-wars are just pointless DM fests, but the truth is they are a part of roleplay, just cause people don't rape /me command each few seconds doesn't mean something lacks roleplay. You are arming up first, getting people you need, getting cars you need, arriving on location, getting tactical positions, then blasting them all...then cops come which makes things funnier...some civilians get caught in crossfire...sorry, bad time bad place, it's not like they lose anything when they die..

adding 'dm arenas' just sounds...i dont know...retarded

[Kojak]

It's not necessary to fixate on one aspect of it you don't like, such as 'arenas' or 'zones'. Instead you could suggest an alternative if you have one.

I agree with you in some part Marcell, often gang wars start out as great RP which is perfectly acceptable. But eventually, in nearly all cases, they lose control and end up as constant, ongoing mass deathmatching. It is at this point that admins intervene because it disrupts the server.

If gang wars were already managed responsibly by those who participate in them, this idea would never have materialised. But even with the best of intentions they always end up the same way and the end result is a series of tempbans issued to take control of the streets that are now unusable for anyone else.

The interest in organised gang wars, whether it is a one off skirmish or a protracted war spanning several days, is to provide the players who enjoy this type of play a way to do it so it is safe for them and doesn't disrupt the server.

At this point no one is saying there will be war zones, or scripts, or anything else in particular. The idea is to put an idea out there that the community can help develop and if positive input is made the end result may look entirely different to the original suggestions based on discovering what you, the community, want.

[Marcell]

But eventually, in nearly all cases, they lose control and end up as constant, ongoing mass deathmatching. It is at this point that admins intervene because it disrupts the server.

what do you mean by this? that people return after dying, or that random civilians get involved as fighters ?

[Murt]

I am sorry, but I do have to disagree with this idea totally. I agree with all that has been stated against it. I would not want to see players get teleported to arenas or places to have a gangwar and pay a fee? That would remove the aspect, the zones that exist now in San Andreas are unique, differnet places for everything.

When I started here I experienced the true old wars that was between the groups, both parties had fun and one part won. Even the law enforcement had fun by interfering it. But what is this?

All about the so called "gang" wars, I do not know why it's put as a gang war. It's not just gangs we have on the server, triads and mafias exist also. The true unique about the war(s) are the conflict between the whole thing, if it can't be solved with a talk it has to be settled with guns. The geographical area is the thing that I like about the wars. I have been with Gvardia, Inferno 9, NBA and 58th Street Connecta. We had our small or big conflicts with the gangs around us. We fought about locations, drugs, weapons and more things. But we both enjoyed it and never cared really about who won or not. I think even the law enforcement enjoyed it big time to actually stop a riot or prevent a mass shootout.

I am more used to the riots that were between Inferno 9/The ARPD/58th Street/Grove Street etc. By limiting the possibilites for this people will withdrawn and actually not enjoy it more.

I as an administrator do not see any problem to prevent things like this if it goes out of hands, we have done it and done it, and why not do it again? Do not see a problem in that? Of course it will take some more work for us, but we will handle it as any other report that come.

[Mario_Rinna]

I am sorry, but I do have to disagree with this idea totally. I agree with all that has been stated against it. I would not want to see players get teleported to arenas or places to have a gangwar and pay a fee? That would remove the aspect, the zones that exist now in San Andreas are unique, differnet places for everything.

When I started here I experienced the true old wars that was between the groups, both parties had fun and one part won. Even the law enforcement had fun by interfering it. But what is this?

All about the so called "gang" wars, I do not know why it's put as a gang war. It's not just gangs we have on the server, triads and mafias exist also. The true unique about the war(s) are the conflict between the whole thing, if it can't be solved with a talk it has to be settled with guns. The geographical area is the thing that I like about the wars. I have been with Gvardia, Inferno 9, NBA and 58th Street Connecta. We had our small or big conflicts with the gangs around us. We fought about locations, drugs, weapons and more things. But we both enjoyed it and never cared really about who won or not. I think even the law enforcement enjoyed it big time to actually stop a riot or prevent a mass shootout.

I am more used to the riots that were between Inferno 9/The ARPD/58th Street/Grove Street etc. By limiting the possibilites for this people will withdrawn and actually not enjoy it more.

I as an administrator do not see any problem to prevent things like this if it goes out of hands, we have done it and done it, and why not do it again? Do not see a problem in that? Of course it will take some more work for us, but we will handle it as any other report that come.

Wow, an admin AND a role-player?  :wow:

[Kojak]

what do you mean by this? that people return after dying, or that random civilians get involved as fighters ?

Both. The gang members will often return to the fight, this is understandable because they are not likely to want to stand idly by and watch their gang mates be killed. Random civilians often get involved, they might drive by, a couple of stray bullets hit their car and suddenly they're amongst the fray with a combat shotgun.

By the time the reports start coming in all we see are a mass of people fighting and no way to determine it's origins or legitimacy.

[Murt]

Wow, an admin AND a role-player?  :wow:

I can recall we are players also? Just because we are admins we can roleplay, but it's more limited due to the work.  :pop: